The Best Explanation of White Privilege?

[bankside]

You misread on purpose for lack of an argument. There's really no other conclusion I can reach as you utterly put the opposite words into my mouth and claimed I said them.

Oy. Okay let's try again. You said:

That's precisely what the ability to get up in the morning and say "I have decided I'm not going to think about race/my race today", or "I'm not going to be racially profiled today", or any other example, is. An undue perk. People who can get up and say those things are white. They're not brown or black people who've just behaved very well and earned it.

I assert that brown or black people should be able to get up in the morning and say "I have decided I'm not going to think about race today" or "I'm not going to be racially profiled today." I commit to do whatever is within my means to overcome anyone who would interfere with that right.

If I accept what you have just said in your direct quote however, that is by definition an "undue perk." The question that inevitably follows is: if white people shouldn't have it, why should anyone? Except I think that is a ridiculous idea so I dispute it.

Then you suggest that white people can take it for granted. I assert that everybody should take it for granted. Everybody should wake up thinking exactly those two things: I don't have to worry about race. I'm not going to be racially profiled. When you wake up thinking that, you know you are onto the proper understanding of rights. It is the internal liberty of mind; the first liberty.

But you go on to say "They're not brown or black people who've just behaved very well and earned it." Maybe that is the sentence that has caused confusion. It seems clear to me you are saying that even when black and brown people behave well, they cannot hope to go through the day without being racially profiled, etc.

So here was my literal thought process in parsing that sentence:
1) We've established that you think a carefree attitude is some kind of illegitimate perk.
2) I'm at a loss to figure out what you think a reasonable standard for rights could possibly be, if not just taking them as a given; I think a carefree attitude is the definition of how to legitimately claim your rights, and it has the added advantage from my own lived experience of shocking the fuck out of anyone stupid enough to try to deny those rights.
3) Now you're talking about the concept of having to earn rights and satisfy someone else's criteria for good behaviour before you could even hope to exercise them, but even then it's all a hope and a dream.
4) WTF??!! Rights are not earned or subject to negotiation? What a disaster! Stop before it's too late!

So with my evidently massive comprehension problems, do me the favour of pointing out where I misunderstood.

 

[opinterph]

No one alive or his parents have ever been a slave or owned one. Not sure if there are any grand children of slaves living. Three of my great grand fathers and six of their brothers fought to end slavery but none of our family ever owned one. 400,000 norther soldiers died to end it.
Attempts to make living Americans feel guilt or debt to African Americans falls on deaf ears for good reason.

What is the correlation between the fact that “no one alive or his parents have ever been a slave or owned one” and “my great grand fathers and six of their brothers fought?”

If the suffering of slaves is no longer relevant, why do you consider some other dead people from the same time period to be relevant? It seems that you are attempting to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Blah blah indeed! You two university debaters ignore everything which doesn't align with your one-eyed obsessive theoretical ideology of Universal and Eternal Guilt.

And by the way, Marx was good in the 19th century but not so relevant in the 21st where most states now are welfare states.

That's correct, I don't buy that aboriginals in Australia have been handed a million dollars apiece in property as you claim.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I assert that brown or black people should be able to get up in the morning and say "I have decided I'm not going to think about race today" or "I'm not going to be racially profiled today." I commit to do whatever is within my means to overcome anyone who would interfere with that right.

I assert exactly the same thing. The fact that it's not the same for them and that whites virtually never have to question their more or less equal treatment in society on the basis of skin color is why they are privileged over the others. The rights should be equal, but are not observed equally. That puts whites into a privileged category in any comparative or objective viewpoint.

Actually the rest of your post doesn't merit response since it was all predicated off your misunderstanding of what I said. And, in fact, what I HAVE said to you in 5 or so posts now.

 

[Apollo]

Wow. This is really only a debate JUB would have.

Say what you want. If you want something in life, fight for it. Stop blaming other people for your problems or pitfalls in life unless they are DIRECTLY involved.

I am not saying White Privelege is not a thing. But it isnt so these days. In this world today, if you are black and want to be something. To go fucking be something. Stop crying because that white dick doesnt want to fuck you. jeezus, only in America.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Wow. This is really only a debate JUB would have.

Say what you want. If you want something in life, fight for it. Stop blaming other people for your problems or pitfalls in life unless they are DIRECTLY involved.

I am not saying White Privelege is not a thing. But it isnt so these days. In this world today, if you are black and want to be something. To go fucking be something. Stop crying because that white dick doesnt want to fuck you. jeezus, only in America.

Thank you for that contribution reflecting absolutely nothing in discussion. No one claimed black people can't be doctors or can't go to college because of white privilege. The discussion has been entirely about whether or not white privilege exists at all, and the semantics of defining it.

 

[Apollo]

I assert exactly the same thing. The fact that it's not the same for them and that whites virtually never have to question their more or less equal treatment in society on the basis of skin color is why they are privileged over the others. The rights should be equal, but are not observed equally. That puts whites into a privileged category in any comparative or objective viewpoint.

Actually the rest of your post doesn't merit response since it was all predicated off your misunderstanding of what I said. And, in fact, what I HAVE said to you in 5 or so posts now.

See this. If you choose to actively limit yourself because you think race was involved, then you deserve it.

Ru Paul is a great example. That bitch is a black gay drag queen who never let someone put him down.

But I digress, I will not be pulled into a race thread. Everyone knows their positions. Knows their caned responses, and when this thread dies. Well...not a damn mind will have changed, just a lot of taken up bits of data.

 

[bankside]

I assert exactly the same thing. The fact that it's not the same for them and that whites virtually never have to question their more or less equal treatment in society on the basis of skin color is why they are privileged over the others. The rights should be equal, but are not observed equally. That puts whites into a privileged category in any comparative or objective viewpoint.

Actually the rest of your post doesn't merit response since it was all predicated off your misunderstanding of what I said. And, in fact, what I HAVE said to you in 5 or so posts now.

Dodge. I've understood you accurately.

And if you are serious about the commitment you make above, you'd consider how to motivate the bulk of the population to be aware and take action. Telling them their equality is a special privilege is just a complete failure to accomplish anything. Anyway, not sure I can add anything more, which is sad for two people who commit to the same goal to view the solutions so differently.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Dodge. I've understood you accurately.

And if you are serious about the commitment you make above, you'd consider how to motivate the bulk of the population to be aware and take action. Telling them their equality is a special privilege is just a complete failure to accomplish anything. Anyway, not sure I can add anything more.

I didn't dodge a thing, the reason you believe so is because you attempted to twist my words into saying something I didn't, and then when I corrected the meaning you claim I dodged something i never said.

 

[Apollo]

Thank you for that contribution reflecting absolutely nothing in discussion. No one claimed black people can't be doctors or can't go to college because of white privilege. The discussion has been entirely about whether or not white privilege exists at all, and the semantics of defining it.

Let's be honest here. When the OP made this thread, he already had his mind set up that is does exist, that he knows how he wishes to define it. That's why, on page 3 of this thread, you're having the same race debate this board sees every year.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Let's be honest here. When the OP made this thread, he already had his mind set up that is does exist, that he knows how he wishes to define it. That's why, on page 3 of this thread, you're having the same race debate this board sees every year.

And he's right to believe that it exists. When you can show stats that white people get randomly pulled over for nothing, that white neighborhoods depress in value the more white people move in, that white classrooms are routinely treated as a disciplinary problem more harshly for the same behaviors or that white people are redlined out of desirable housing districts by realtors or homeloan programs, we can talk about how its existence is "debatable." As far as I'm concerned there's just people who acknowledge that it still happens even in an on-paper equal, post-race society, and deal with it, and people who prefer to pretend that there is absolutely no influencing factor on their experience in life other than their own personal merit and actions. More power to those people, but I don't prefer living with wool blinders on.

 

[Apollo]

Actually, looking at the OP. I can tell you right now all he wanted to do was bait the forum. He has been here long enough to know exactly what this thread was going to turn into, and it definitely hasn't disappointed.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Actually, looking at the OP. I can tell you right now all he wanted to do was bait the forum. He has been here long enough to know exactly what this thread was going to turn into, and it definitely hasn't disappointed.

What I always find ironic about these kinds of observations is that if it was merely a bait thread, it got your attention, you bit, and if the entire ensuing discussion is something you prefer to avoid, that didn't stop you from coming in and posting.

 

[Apollo]

And he's right to believe that it exists. When you can show stats that white people get randomly pulled over for nothing, that white neighborhoods depress in value the more white people move in, that white classrooms are routinely treated as a disciplinary problem more harshly for the same behaviors or that white people are redlined out of desirable housing districts by realtors or homeloan programs, we can talk about how its existence is "debatable." As far as I'm concerned there's just people who acknowledge that it still happens even in an on-paper equal, post-race society, and deal with it, and people who prefer to pretend that there is absolutely no influencing factor on their experience in life other than their own personal merit and actions. More power to those people, but I don't prefer living with wool blinders on.

Fuck, i'm doing it...

No doubt this does exist in America.

But white people do randomly get pulled over...by minority police officers who believe they are only giving the white people a taste of what they go through. Yes, there are neighborhoods that depress in value when a black person moves in. But in some cities, a lot of successful black people move into their own little special enclaves with a bunch of other successful black people. And guess what happens when whitey moves in...I know this because there is one in Houston. I lived in the poor part of it, but you don't have to be a genius to get it. Not to mention a lot of successful black people who come from poor backgrounds tend to enjoy looking for black businessmen to do their business with. That includes realtors and homeloan programs.

Ok ok...I can't get pulled in. This debate is soooo pointless.

But I will leave you with this, bankside is Canadian. I know they are only a stones throw away from America, but their societies way of thinking is different enough that white privilege is most likely not as prevalent to them as to America.

 

[pat grimshaw]

…fight for it. Stop blaming other people for your problems……go fucking be something. Stop crying …

Yes! I don't know if these two university debaters are Catholic or Lapsed Catholics but this thread seems to be chanting a mantra that all of us must feel Universal Guilt. And Eternal Guilt.

 

[Apollo]

What I always find ironic about these kinds of observations is that if it was merely a bait thread, it got your attention, you bit, and if the entire ensuing discussion is something you prefer to avoid, that didn't stop you from coming in and posting.

Not gonna lie, I like a good bait thread from time to time, and lord knows DigitalFudge is the best at them, but I won't get into the trenches anymore unless it is a fresh debate. This shit is old as dust, as long as this forum has existed, this debate has existed. And I can tell you right now, what you are arguing with bankside has been argued before. Almost verbatim your views have already been said.

I understand you don't care about this fact, and that you will continue to try and convince made up minds to your point of view, but it doesnt stop me from pointing out the obvious.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Fuck, i'm doing it...

No doubt this does exist in America.

But white people do randomly get pulled over...by minority police officers who believe they are only giving the white people a taste of what they go through. Yes, there are neighborhoods that depress in value when a black person moves in. But in some cities, a lot of successful black people move into their own little special enclaves with a bunch of other successful black people. And guess what happens when whitey moves in...I know this because there is one in Houston. I lived in the poor part of it, but you don't have to be a genius to get it. Not to mention a lot of successful black people who come from poor backgrounds tend to enjoy looking for black businessmen to do their business with. That includes realtors and homeloan programs.

Ok ok...I can't get pulled in. This debate is soooo pointless.

But I will leave you with this, bankside is Canadian. I know they are only a stones throw away from America, but their societies way of thinking is different enough that white privilege is most likely not as prevalent to them as to America.

I pointed his Canadian-ness out to him earlier in the discussion, but since he conducted the debate just as if he was an American and even cited the Constitution all I can do is shrug. I do agree his view is very colored by not being in the U.S., the history is different enough that the situations are not strictly parallel by any means.

However I think you're really up a creek trying to claim that some phantom level of minority "retribution" against whites balances out the tangible measurements we can make of white preferentialism in our society.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes! I don't know if these two university debaters are Catholic or Lapsed Catholics but this thread seems to be chanting a mantra that all of us must feel Universal Guilt. And Eternal Guilt.

The only person who has used the word guilt is you, which is ironic, considering that you're an apologist for genocides and the holocaust, and clearly coudln't feel guilty about virtually any level of injusticed meted out against nonwhites even if a guilt stone hit you upside the head.

 

[DigitalFudge]

Actually, looking at the OP. I can tell you right now all he wanted to do was bait the forum. He has been here long enough to know exactly what this thread was going to turn into, and it definitely hasn't disappointed.

The problem you, and many white people have with White Privilege is you think it's racism.


You think White Privilege is something you do, or something that can be done.


I found an amazing comic that illustrates something I ponder every now and then and wanted to share it with JuB. I don't bait people, I don't insult people's intelligence, and I certainly am not looking to cause drama.



Now let me explain to you what "White Privliedge" is.




White Privilege is when you tell someone you went to Harvard, they don't look shocked with a squint in their eye.



White Privilege is when you are riding your bike in LA on your way to Wawa the cops wave to you as they drive by.


White privilege is being cheered for dating someone of a differing race because being attracted to someone who is non-white is a genetic miracle.


White Privilege is the privilege to be oblivious to it.


White Privilege is not being forced to change your name to be something people can pronounce correctly or spell.

White Privilege is not having to stay up at night worrying about if you will get that part in the play because you are Asian, Indian, or Hispanic.

White Privilege is being able to obsess over Tribal Prints, Tattoos, and markings, when people of color's ancestors were stripped of them to assimilate with white culture because those markings were "Barbaric" and "Primitive"


White privilege is knowing that if you call the cops your skin color and the skin color of the person/people who victimized you won't matter.






White Privilege is not something you "do" it's a luxury you are afforded. By looking at this thread, it is a luxury so many people take for granted.



White Privilege is not about black people. It's about W-H-I-T-E people. What Ru-paul, Barack Obama, or Halle Berry have/has/Will do is irrelevant.

 

[Apollo]

I pointed his Canadian-ness out to him earlier in the discussion, but since he conducted the debate just as if he was an American and even cited the Constitution all I can do is shrug. I do agree his view is very colored by not being in the U.S., the history is different enough that the situations are not strictly parallel by any means.

However I think you're really up a creek trying to claim that some phantom level of minority "retribution" against whites balances out the tangible measurements we can make of white preferentialism in our society.

- - - Updated - - -



The only person who has used the word guilt is you, which is ironic, considering that you're an apologist for genocides and the holocaust, and clearly coudln't feel guilty about virtually any level of injusticed meted out against nonwhites even if a guilt stone hit you upside the head.

It isn't phantom retribution. This is you looking at it as if the successful black people care enough to actively be trying to get back at whitey.

I grew up a poor black man, but my aunts and uncles were actually pretty successful in life. One is a very successful architect who travels from Houston to California on business. I had the privilege at thanksgiving and Christmas to hear them talk, see how they lived. (I was never super close to my family for COMPLETELY different reasons, so I didn't see them a lot a lot despite living in the same city) They simply prefer to live around other black people. It isn't hard in Houston to find little communities of successful black people living together, going about their business. To them, they have the benefit of living in a safe community, while having their children grow up around other black children. They are very ethnocentric, their book shelves are littered with books by black artists and philosophers, histories of Africa etc.

 

[Apollo]

The problem you, and many white people have with White Privilege is you think it's racism.


You think White Privilege is something you do, or something that can be done.


I found an amazing comic that illustrates something I ponder every now and then and wanted to share it with JuB. I don't bait people, I don't insult people's intelligence, and I certainly am not looking to cause drama.



Now let me explain to you what "White Privliedge" is.




White Privilege is when you tell someone you went to Harvard, they don't look shocked with a squint in their eye.



White Privilege is when you are riding your bike in LA on your way to Wawa the cops wave to you as they drive by.


White privilege is being cheered for dating someone of a differing race because being attracted to someone who is non-white is a genetic miracle.


White Privilege is the privilege to be oblivious to it.


White Privilege is not being forced to change your name to be something people can pronounce correctly or spell.

White Privilege is not having to stay up at night worrying about if you will get that part in the play because you are Asian, Indian, or Hispanic.

White Privilege is being able to obsess over Tribal Prints, Tattoos, and markings, when people of color's ancestors were stripped of them to assimilate with white culture because those markings were "Barbaric" and "Primitive"


White privilege is knowing that if you call the cops your skin color and the skin color of the person/people who victimized you won't matter.






White Privilege is not something you "do" it's a luxury you are afforded. By looking at this thread, it is a luxury so many of you take for granted.

Huh? When did I explicitly say that? I have firsthand experience with white privilege. I listened when my uncle would talk about pretty much being harrassed by white people in his neighborhood. But he didn't let it get him down, he made something of himself in life and didn't let them get him down or deter him from making any changes he wanted to his own house. Especially when he was an architect, and his son (my cousin) is a contractor. He blamed white people for a lot of pitfalls of black people in American society, but he didn't let it destroy his will to be successful and work for what he believed what his right to have.

This is a man in his 70's who was in his teens when Dr. King was marching on Washington. My mom was a teen as well during that time, but she had less motivation than he did to make something of herself. He has grown up seeing the changes America has gone through since the time of segregation.