The Best Explanation of White Privilege?

[BronzeBoyturnedBronzeMan]

races posts, or things that have to do with them never seen to go well here as well as other sites.. i try to stay out of them my opinion always get shited on anyway.

 

[DigitalFudge]

Someone gave me pissy comment about some of posters here are wrong and he persuade me to read Apollo's thesis because that's the tea/truth in this thread. Really? I didn't really following this thread but I'll take my time to read Apollo's rant later- there you have it!


* PS: This is not Apollo sending me comment, someone else -_-

A mess.


[STRIKE]Bankside[/STRIKE] hew may that be?

 

[blackbeltninja]

Refuji got to it first-- you utterly didn't get the story at all. In his post white people are the circle. The holes are all cut for them already.

No, I understood the story. However, both you and Refuji missed my point entirely.

You want to get people to accept change and get them to work for that change, you need to include them in it, not play tit-for-tat. The way to even things up is not to create different circumstances for different people, it's to treat everyone the same - build a bigger door which is entirely non-specific. You think the big guns of human rights like Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela would agree with you? My guess is no.

Tell you what - let's extend this little circles vs triangles metaphor further, for shits and giggles. I'm wondering - circular doors, triangular doors, no doors we can all walk through, chances are circles will stay near the circular door so they can get out quicker, and triangles near the triangular door so they can get out quicker... what shape is the door at the back of the bus? Or is it not the 1950s anymore?

When a different shaped hole is made, people like you come along and start calling it reverse discrimination or implying it excludes whites.

Well... if it's a triangular hole which the circles can't fit through then I'm not implying anything and simply stating facts, aren't I? It's a simple observation; hardly rocket science.

-d-

 

[Rolyo85]

races posts, or things that have to do with them never seen to go well here as well as other sites.. i try to stay out of them my opinion always get shited on anyway.

Thank you for sharing with us that you aren't gonna share anything with us

 

[BronzeBoyturnedBronzeMan]

atleast i told you why. but thats cool.. *tips is hat and walks away

 

[bankside]

Nobody has yet explained when you would need to call something "white privilege" that couldn't be more easily and accurately explained by just calling it racism. To call it "white privilege" is just a way to talk about racism while adding a derogatory swipe at white people. And while corroding an equality-based and rights-based society.

Anything you can name, educational opportunity, housing discrimination, hiring discrimination, police profiling, anything where people are treated differently based on skin colour, you could just call it what it is: racism. Or you could focus on the colour gap and call it "white privilege." But once you do that, it would be exactly the same reasoning, and exactly the same linguistic construction, and exactly the same overtone of blame, to start calling it "black deficiency." Just hinting…just insinuating a little bit here and there... Same focus on the colour. Same derogatory swipe at someone's colour. Same problem. No more insight or accuracy or brainwave for doing it.

If we call it racism, we all know what it means: shitty racist behaviour. If we called it "black deficiency" it would focus on the blackness instead of the racism, and would have to be construed as being critical of black people and that they are somehow responsible for their own collective condition. It is exactly exactly the same linguistic problem by calling it "white privilege." It focusses on the the colour instead of the racism, and would have to be construed as being critical of white people - because that is the intent of a word like that.

Equality is not something special. It is never a privilege. And targeting the people who use their rights unopposed is useless compared to actually targeting racism.

No, I understood the story. However, both you and Refuji missed my point entirely.

You want to get people to accept change and get them to work for that change, you need to include them in it, not play tit-for-tat. The way to even things up is not to create different circumstances for different people, it's to treat everyone the same - build a bigger door which is entirely non-specific. You think the big guns of human rights like Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela would agree with you? My guess is no.

Tell you what - let's extend this little circles vs triangles metaphor further, for shits and giggles. I'm wondering - circular doors, triangular doors, no doors we can all walk through, chances are circles will stay near the circular door so they can get out quicker, and triangles near the triangular door so they can get out quicker... what shape is the door at the back of the bus? Or is it not the 1950s anymore?



Well... if it's a triangular hole which the circles can't fit through then I'm not implying anything and simply stating facts, aren't I? It's a simple observation; hardly rocket science.

-d-

Yup.

[STRIKE]Bankside[/STRIKE] hew may that be?

Nope.

 

[figjam]

you know some people in here are going to front like they don't know what you're talking about even when they know exactly what you're talking about. skin color does matter more than most people would like to admit. i'm tired of some people playing stupid when it's time to speak up about it but then throwing subliminals and slick comments on the low thinking some of us don't know. we're not stupid and you're not as smart as you think you are. you know who you are too, get your head out your ass and man up. you're on the internet. you don't have to worry about anybody ready to kick your ass in get in your face to talk about it.

?? - I am confused. Kicking in of asses and people being "smart". The first post contains some animated gifs (one of which is a dead link). What does this thread try to debate? Racism? If so, this is a very poor and uninspired effort to win black friends....

 

[Rolyo85]

Nobody has yet explained when you would need to call something "white privilege" that couldn't be more easily and accurately explained by just calling it racism. To call it "white privilege" is just a way to talk about racism while adding a derogatory swipe at white people. And while corroding an equality-based and rights-based society.

Ok, because I actually took effort to explain the semantic point, and you're now just ignoring it, I will simply say that you are LYING - it WAS explained why "white privilege" is not simply "racism". Racism is active, it is found in shared opinions and actions. White privilege is passive. It is a status quo that is BASED on racism, but isn't part of it. I am not racist, but I have white privilege. You are... I am not sure what you are, but I will give you the courtesy of assuming you aren't racist, yet you are also benefiting from white privilege. There is nothing wrong in addressing it at white people - I am sure that with all the benefits they have when compared to any other group in western civilization, they can take that "derogatory swipe". And what's "corroding an equality-based and rights-based society" is the EXISTENCE of white privilege, not the particular term that is used for it. To focus on the term while swiping the actual thing under the rug and calling it racism (which ignores about 90% of white privilege), is nothing short of vile hypocrisy.

Equality is not something special. It is never a privilege. And targeting the people who use their rights unopposed is useless compared to actually targeting racism.

False. In a society where equality is not the status quo, equality is a privilege. ALWAYS a privilege. And ours is NOT an equality-based society in reality, whatever it is on paper and law. If you feel "targeted" by the term that describes that, I have to question how clear your conscience is. I am just as white as you, and do not feel that term in any way "targets" me or "blames" me for anything, though if truth be told, there are very few white people who don't in one way or another exploit their superior position in society. It's not a thing to feel guilty of, unless you are consciously contributing to the "black deficiency".

Are you?

 

[pat grimshaw]

 

[xbuzzerx]

No, I understood the story. However, both you and Refuji missed my point entirely.

You want to get people to accept change and get them to work for that change, you need to include them in it, not play tit-for-tat. The way to even things up is not to create different circumstances for different people, it's to treat everyone the same - build a bigger door which is entirely non-specific. You think the big guns of human rights like Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela would agree with you? My guess is no.

Tell you what - let's extend this little circles vs triangles metaphor further, for shits and giggles. I'm wondering - circular doors, triangular doors, no doors we can all walk through, chances are circles will stay near the circular door so they can get out quicker, and triangles near the triangular door so they can get out quicker... what shape is the door at the back of the bus? Or is it not the 1950s anymore?

Well... if it's a triangular hole which the circles can't fit through then I'm not implying anything and simply stating facts, aren't I? It's a simple observation; hardly rocket science.

-d-

Your entire nitpick rests on some presumption that a door for triangles means there's now not enough doors for circles, when all doors are for circles. This zero sum mindset pretty much underlines the attitude of every white person who denies that prejudice or any advantage to being white exists. They view something that helps a disadvantaged group gain equal access as something "helping someone else and hurting me." Your ability to get homeloan financing is not affected by a program that specifically aims to help traditionally redlined groups from also being able to get homeloan financing. You can probably just go to any ordinary bank for what you need. You don't need a special program because banks have a long history of refusing to extend credit to your ethnic group.

Nobody has yet explained when you would need to call something "white privilege" that couldn't be more easily and accurately explained by just calling it racism.

I have, multiple times. It is racism. The fact that nonwhites face it and whites do not is what is meant by the term "white privilege." The picture Refuji posted made it pretty abundantly clear. After 5 pages and having it explained to you multiple times what the term means, if you still don't get it, you are either never going to get it or you are simply stubbornly refusing to get it. In colonized societies, the colonizers usually had sets of rights and legal protections which did not always extend, or did not extend equally, to the colonized-- things like voting, legal testimony, etc. Yes, you would be correct to say "the solution is to properly extend those rights equally to everyone, including the colonized." But while the situation existed where it was observed only for the colonizers and not equally for the colonized, the colonizers were a privileged group. Society was not equal.

We live in the legacies of those systems today, and those legacies are not fully eradicated.

 

[ElmosToe]

 

[blackbeltninja]

Your entire nitpick rests on some presumption that a door for triangles means there's now not enough doors for circles, when all doors are for circles.

Except the one you've just built, you mean. Which, in fact, you have deliberately built to lift one group up and to deliberately exclude the other.

Okay, so let's push this metaphor along a bit. The city has expanded, and we have built a new wall which needs some doors. In your opinion, do we stop building shape-specific doors or do we perpetuate this nonsense further and continue to alienate each other?

This zero sum mindset pretty much underlines the attitude of every white person who denies that prejudice or any advantage to being white exists. They view something that helps a disadvantaged group gain equal access as something "helping someone else and hurting me." Your ability to get homeloan financing is not affected by a program that specifically aims to help traditionally redlined groups from also being able to get homeloan financing. You can probably just go to any ordinary bank for what you need. You don't need a special program because banks have a long history of refusing to extend credit to your ethnic group.

I get that people were and sometimes still are marginilised, and that it's still a fuck-up. But you have to look forward; mistreating another group of people into the future to attempt to balance the scales is extremely short-sighted. As gay people, we are also often poorly treated and have been discriminated against and marginilised. But we demand equality, not special treatment. Why should race not be treated with the same mindset?

-d-

 

[refujiunderground]

No, I understood the story. However, both you and Refuji missed my point entirely.

You want to get people to accept change and get them to work for that change, you need to include them in it, not play tit-for-tat. The way to even things up is not to create different circumstances for different people, it's to treat everyone the same - build a bigger door which is entirely non-specific. You think the big guns of human rights like Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela would agree with you? My guess is no.

Tell you what - let's extend this little circles vs triangles metaphor further, for shits and giggles. I'm wondering - circular doors, triangular doors, no doors we can all walk through, chances are circles will stay near the circular door so they can get out quicker, and triangles near the triangular door so they can get out quicker... what shape is the door at the back of the bus? Or is it not the 1950s anymore?



Well... if it's a triangular hole which the circles can't fit through then I'm not implying anything and simply stating facts, aren't I? It's a simple observation; hardly rocket science.

-d-

if you understood the story, why are you missing the crucial part of it that pretty much sums up the whole issue of white privilege to begin with?

if there's hundreds of openings for all the circles to pass through, why the fuck do they care about the one opening that all the other shapes could pass through? you mean to tell me that you overlooked that. there's plenty of opportunities for you and other white people because society sets it up to benefit you and people that look like you. it always has been like that. you mean to tell me that you're getting upset at one or two opportunities being set up for those that don't look like you and you're calling it inequality but when the system was set up to only benefit you and yours and ONLY you and yours, it wasn't a problem. hell, you would probably have folks that would be all cool with it because they don't feel threatened by other people trying to take the opportunities that they FEEL are entitled to them and people that look like them. that's white privilege right there. to think that nobody else should receive the same type of treatment that you should.

it's funny seeing how threatened some white people are when they find out that people that are black, asian and etc could receive what THEY feel are entitled to them because they're white. now society is changing over and they're like "damn, my skin color no longer guarantees that i'll be able to get a job, a spot in school and etc." then they say that the non-whites are the ones pulling up the race card.

 

[blackbeltninja]

You know, Refuji, maybe you should just move to Africa where you won't have to put up with all this bullshit adn teh system is set up for people just like you. Hell, as an added bonus your American accent will open more doors for you here than it ever will over there.

-d-

 

[bankside]

if you understood the story, why are you missing the crucial part of it that pretty much sums up the whole issue of white privilege to begin with?

if there's hundreds of openings for all the circles to pass through, why the fuck do they care about the one opening that all the other shapes could pass through? you mean to tell me that you overlooked that. there's plenty of opportunities for you and other white people because society sets it up to benefit you and people that look like you. it always has been like that. you mean to tell me that you're getting upset at one or two opportunities being set up for those that don't look like you and you're calling it inequality but when the system was set up to only benefit you and yours and ONLY you and yours, it wasn't a problem. hell, you would probably have folks that would be all cool with it because they don't feel threatened by other people trying to take the opportunities that they FEEL are entitled to them and people that look like them.

Because up until now, I thought we were all supposed to be rebuilding the circular holes into a new shape that anyone could pass through. But if you decide, no, all we need are some separate holes for triangles and squares, then it makes all the rest of the circles legitimate for the same reason, and they will stay circles for ever. So I'll go through the circular hole to get to my water fountain, and you go through the triangular hole to get to yours. Forget rebuilding the existing holes for everyone. All the triangles can go work on their own damn holes.

There can only be one path to equality. Nobody had it before Magna Carta.

 

[refujiunderground]

You know, Refuji, maybe you should just move to Africa where you won't have to put up with all this bullshit adn teh system is set up for people just like you. Hell, as an added bonus your American accent will open more doors for you here than it ever will over there.

-d-

let me guess. affirmative action to help with the effects of apartheid.

as i said before, it's funny how people such as yourself feel threatened when the system no longer only favors you because that's what all this ranting is about. you act as if apartheid didn't exist in your country and that although blacks are the majority in your country, they couldn't do SHIT because the way your country was set up, they were discriminated against. so don't talk as if you're a bigger victim when you can thrive in that country more so than most of the population that needs things like affirmative action to even give them a shot when you simply have a bigger advantage of them off of how you look. stop with the "woe is me" crap.

 

[refujiunderground]

Because up until now, I thought we were all supposed to be rebuilding the circular holes into a new shape that anyone could pass through. But if you decide, no, all we need are some separate holes for triangles and squares, then it makes all the rest of the circles legitimate for the same reason, and they will stay circles for ever. So I'll go through the circular hole to get to my water fountain, and you go through the triangular hole to get to yours. Forget rebuilding the existing holes for everyone. All the triangles can go work on their own damn holes.

There can only be one path to equality. Nobody had it before Magna Carta.

you and me know that it's not like that and never will be.

and judging that many people share you and bbninja's attitudes towards equality where you feel threatened that nonwhites could be where you're at, it's just not going to happen.

you guys are pretending that racism is dead and that white people didn't receive favorable treatment compared to nonwhites in your respective countries. one big problem is not acknowleding that that happens and another is basically acting like things can simply be fixed by letting things be the way they are. affirmative action actually a response to the damage that segregation did where white males benefited the most and everyone else suffered. hell, the people that benefited the most from affirmative action are white women but yet you'll always see a white guy complaining about affirmative action benefitting minorities and NOT him even though the system is already set up to benefit him anyway.

 

[bankside]

you and me know that it's not like that and never will be.

and judging that many people share you and bbninja's attitudes towards equality where you feel threatened that nonwhites could be where you're at, it's just not going to happen.

you guys are pretending that racism is dead and that white people didn't receive favorable treatment compared to nonwhites in your respective countries. one big problem is not acknowleding that that happens and another is basically acting like things can simply be fixed by letting things be the way they are. affirmative action actually a response to the damage that segregation did where white males benefited the most and everyone else suffered. hell, the people that benefited the most from affirmative action are white women but yet you'll always see a white guy complaining about affirmative action benefitting minorities and NOT him even though the system is already set up to benefit him anyway.

People keep arguing against what they imagine I think instead of what i keep saying I think. I'm not threatened if somebody non-white succeds.

If you, me and blackbeltninja all apply for the same job, and I don't get it because I don't have the same test scores, I don't have the same experience, and I fucked up my interview, then I can live with that. If I don't get the job, I don't care if it goes to you, or blackbeltninja. I'm not secretly hoping he gets it so the white guy gets the promotion, I really don't give a shit. If it's you, congratulations. I'd be glad to see you get the promotion and I'd be happy to work with you whether you report to me or whether I'm reporting to you boss or whether blackbeltninja is our boss. But if blackbeltninja and I are not even allowed to try out for the job because they decided there are too many white managers and it's time to "benefit a minority," fuck that and affirmative action too. If a white woman gets the job instead of ANY of us because we failed the interview due to having a penis, fuck that and fuck affirmative action too.

Turns out I have worked for people who were not white. I've hired and promoted people who were not white. I didn't do it "because it was their turn," I did it because they were better than other non-white and white candidates.

And none of that means racism is dead. I don't believe racism is dead. I just don't think affirmative action is the way to deal with it.

 

[MorrisseyX]

You know, Refuji, maybe you should just move to Africa where you won't have to put up with all this bullshit adn teh system is set up for people just like you. Hell, as an added bonus your American accent will open more doors for you here than it ever will over there.

-d-

America and South Africa both had apartheid regimes. South Africa's apatheid system only ended about 20 years ago, but the social inequalities between blacks and whites is still huge in South Africa.

I think the racism in South Africa is probably even worse than the United States. South African miners are fighting for fair wages and for their human rights yet they are getting shot and killed.

Also, a perfect example of white privilege in South Africa is the case of that disabled white track star Oscar Pistorious, if he was a black South African man I doubt he would be granted bail.

This guy is actually getting sympathy for killing his girlfriend and some people still see this guy as a hero in South Africa because he's a white man.

Pistorious looks to me like he murdered his girifriend and the case is getting world wide media coverage. Pistorious wasn't even that great track athlete he had a good story but white privilege definitely helped him look like a victim even though he murdered his own girlfriend. Now the guy is trying to get his bail reduced. If Pistorious was a black South African man he wouldn't have gotten international media coverage, he would be in a prison cell right now waiting for his trial.

 

[pat grimshaw]

… some people still see this guy as a hero in South Africa….

Pistorious looks to me like he murdered his girifriend and the case is getting world wide media coverage. …

People like Pistorious because he's pretty. OJ Simpson was also pretty and he got world wide media coverage.