THE CHOSEN ONE - some ego

[Kulindahr]

thanks kuli

sorry u feel that way

but i can't control that

as for ur comment about mccain/fred phelps/my attitude

take a hike

You can't control how I feel, but you can control the blind, obnoxious, partisan behavior you engage in.

don't say it unless u mean it

McCain is a great man - it's that simple

the fact that he is hated here on JUB is mind boggling

that 85% want to put a newbie in charge in such a difficult time suggests a lack of perspective but i get that

but the hatred for mccain is sick shit

and the things i point out about THE CHOSEN ONE pale in comparison to name calling JMac endures

Yes, McCain is great:
Great at religious discrimination, great at hacking away at freedom of speech and the press, great at supporting efforts to castrate a large portion of the Bill of Rights, great at believing in a police state.
Chance, he's got some good points, like the fact that he recognizes that the "surge" had good results. But in terms of devotion to liberty, he sits at a flat zero, because he doesn't regard it as important. To him, winning is important, "effective" government is important, catching bad guys is important, imposing his morals on others is important -- but neither liberty nor the truth are important, if they get in the way of what he considers important.

But you make it very hard to see his good points, because you're so devoted to not assessing Senator Obama rationally, only on smearing him with inane little titles and phrases. You do a great job of convincing your "85%" that they're right, with that emotive rhetoric. Your posts just reinforce the view that your support for McCain is some emotional thing apart from reality, since that's the way you treat Obama.

Yes, Obama is a newbie, and that can be a very risky thing. But hating him for it is irrational; he hasn't had time to earn hatred. McCain has had time, and he has done a good job of it. Elect him, and he'll follow in GWB's footsteps, and prove that he's a traitor to the Constitution, a despiser of liberty, and a pawn of the theocrats. That's why, for all that he's not terribly qualified, Obama is a better choice than McCain: with Obama, we might get lucky; with McCain, we already know we're going to continue reducing our freedoms, step by step... or, when he can get away with it, leap by leap.

 

[greydog]

You can't control how I feel, but you can control the blind, obnoxious, partisan behavior you engage in.



Yes, McCain is great:
Great at religious discrimination, great at hacking away at freedom of speech and the press, great at supporting efforts to castrate a large portion of the Bill of Rights, great at believing in a police state.
Chance, he's got some good points, like the fact that he recognizes that the "surge" had good results. But in terms of devotion to liberty, he sits at a flat zero, because he doesn't regard it as important. To him, winning is important, "effective" government is important, catching bad guys is important, imposing his morals on others is important -- but neither liberty nor the truth are important, if they get in the way of what he considers important.

But you make it very hard to see his good points, because you're so devoted to not assessing Senator Obama rationally, only on smearing him with inane little titles and phrases. You do a great job of convincing your "85%" that they're right, with that emotive rhetoric. Your posts just reinforce the view that your support for McCain is some emotional thing apart from reality, since that's the way you treat Obama.

Yes, Obama is a newbie, and that can be a very risky thing. But hating him for it is irrational; he hasn't had time to earn hatred. McCain has had time, and he has done a good job of it. Elect him, and he'll follow in GWB's footsteps, and prove that he's a traitor to the Constitution, a despiser of liberty, and a pawn of the theocrats. That's why, for all that he's not terribly qualified, Obama is a better choice than McCain: with Obama, we might get lucky; with McCain, we already know we're going to continue reducing our freedoms, step by step... or, when he can get away with it, leap by leap.

WOW!!
Those are powerful words, and I totally agree with you.

 

[Kulindahr]

I'm not really sweating what your freind thinks of my remarks.I'd have no problem saying them to him too, and I never was too good at playing punching bag.If he were to put his hands on me, I'd jam a pencil in his neck..

Just so you know,and you can tell your freind.I too served on the border at the TZP or tri-zonal point,the borders of the former Czeck- DDR-FRG republics while I was a Cavalry Scout with the Second Armored Cavalry Regiment.I'm not aware of any Airborne Units that served in the Berlin Brigade.

The Berlin Brigade was a joke in my book anyways, it was a show force.They would have been destroyed immediately in the event of an Eastern Block invasion. They were surrounded on all sides by hostile forces,and would have been rolled right over.They were there to look pretty,and little more.

I'm glad the wall came down, but it didn't come down because Reagan said so..It came down because the Soviets went bankrupt and could no longer afford to maintain the arms race..

Give it a few more years,we'll too be bankrupt and won't be able to pay our soldiers..

Apart from your distortion of history -- which I might entertain believing but for the fact that German students at OSU said the same thing, that it was Reagan's words which gave the people the courage to take the Wall into their own hands -- your brag wouldn't happen: if he'd decided to put his hands on you, you wouldn't have the capacity to so much as think about a pencil, let alone make your hand perform the action of grasping one.
Think what you want of the men who watched over Berlin; I'll stick with the man who demonstrated honor in his least act -- and whom I watched ditch his own chute one day and go heads-down to catch a student skydiver in trouble.
BTW, if you think they were there just to look pretty, your grasp of military strategy is exceedingly deficient. You actually give the reasons why your assessment is wrong, right there in the paragraph that claim ends!

 

[chance1]

You can't control how I feel, but you can control the blind, obnoxious, partisan behavior you engage in.



Yes, McCain is great:
Great at religious discrimination, great at hacking away at freedom of speech and the press, great at supporting efforts to castrate a large portion of the Bill of Rights, great at believing in a police state.
Chance, he's got some good points, like the fact that he recognizes that the "surge" had good results. But in terms of devotion to liberty, he sits at a flat zero, because he doesn't regard it as important. To him, winning is important, "effective" government is important, catching bad guys is important, imposing his morals on others is important -- but neither liberty nor the truth are important, if they get in the way of what he considers important.

But you make it very hard to see his good points, because you're so devoted to not assessing Senator Obama rationally, only on smearing him with inane little titles and phrases. You do a great job of convincing your "85%" that they're right, with that emotive rhetoric. Your posts just reinforce the view that your support for McCain is some emotional thing apart from reality, since that's the way you treat Obama.

Yes, Obama is a newbie, and that can be a very risky thing. But hating him for it is irrational; he hasn't had time to earn hatred. McCain has had time, and he has done a good job of it. Elect him, and he'll follow in GWB's footsteps, and prove that he's a traitor to the Constitution, a despiser of liberty, and a pawn of the theocrats. That's why, for all that he's not terribly qualified, Obama is a better choice than McCain: with Obama, we might get lucky; with McCain, we already know we're going to continue reducing our freedoms, step by step... or, when he can get away with it, leap by leap.

kuli - u have a lotta balls calling me those things - i am neither blind nor obnoxious nor partisan

and this "mccain is against freedom" rant u spew on a regular basis is bullshit

as for me "smearing" obama, get a grip

i point out things not so favorable while the FLOCK blows him 24/7 and calls JMac vile names - and im a "smearer" - I hardly think calling him THE CHOSEN ONE is a smear - and u really do need to get a life if u think so

ur hatred and inaccurate depiction of JMac is BLIND, OBNOXIOUS AND PARTISAN

now that's smearing

Kenny and Lovers and fill in the blanks non stop McCain bashing of a personal nature is smearing

i don't see u calling them out - what's the deal there kuli?

so look in the mirror bro

I am one of the few in this god forsaken wasteland called JUB that doesnt suck obama's cock and view everything thru BO glasses

that's what the 85 does - that's what the news media does

his "trip" overseas is proof - if there ever was a doubt

or listen/read howard kurz from the wash post/cnn if u want more about it

hate obama? i dont hate the junior senator

i am tired of his rhetoric - of his flip flops - of his change for change sake - of his finger pointing at anyone who doesn't drink the kool aid with regards to him (racist) or his wife - he's over his skis and the fact that he is likely going to be elected pres speaks volumes about the country's desperate mindset

his rich vs. poor - his the surge isn't working - his flip flop on the war - his flip flop on guns - on public financing - on so many issues ............

show me a post where i smeared him kuli - u can't

and ur on ignore bro - hope u don't find that impugning on ur liberty

it's been real - it's been fun

but it hasn't been real fun

 

[Kulindahr]

About the Berlin Brigade,what were they there for then?Most of the soldiers Iever met from that unit bitched about what a lame, suck ass unit it was..
to conceal a vehicle.

I can't imagine any other reason for them being there,except as a symbolic presence..

Our unit was stationed about 50 miles from the border in Bavaria,and even we were told that we could expect certain anniahlation.

We trained extensively for Soviet invasion,most likely through the Fulda Gap..

At best we were told ,we might have been able to slow them down by blowing up bridges,creating abateeses in the roads,and concentrated artillery and air support..

In general though, it was impressed that an Eastern Block invasion would be in such overwhelming numbers and we would probably run out of ordinance before we ever formed a defensive line ..

Like I said, a best case scenario would have us slowing them down long enough for re-enforcements from the U.S. to arrive..

This is sad.
You already gave the strategic reason for the Berlin Brigade. Just look at your own post, and think about it a little. Even a buck private ought to be able to figure it out, when the answer's right in front of him.

But that was quite an interesting tale,jumped out of a plane without a parachute ..

Hmmn.

You don't read very well, either.

 

[Kulindahr]

kuli - u have a lotta balls calling me those things - i am neither blind nor obnoxious nor partisan

and this "mccain is against freedom" rant u spew on a regular basis is bullshit

<substantial smearing of Obama supporters deleted>

Your constant childish sniping at Obama is obnoxious, and is very partisan. You're clearly a right-wing Republican at heart. And you know so little about the candidate you worship that calling your rhetoric "blind" is actually being generous.

I see: when McCain says with his own mouth that "effective government" is more important that free speech or freedom of the press, when he sponsors legislation drastically cutting into both of those,then pointing it out is "bullshit".
When McCain supports legislation that eviscerates protections against search and seizure, pointing it out is "bullshit".
When McCain regularly speaks out in favor of religious discrimination, calling him on it is "bullshit".
When McCain wants to do away with Fifth Amendment protections against self incrimination, making people aware of that is "bullshit".
I suppose that calling him on his lies about Iraq and what he saw there is "bullshit", too.

What you're doing, Chance, is looking at McCain through some drug-coated glasses and dissing anyone who has the audacity to tell you your vision is screwed up. As Simon and Garfunkel said, you see what you want to see, and disregard the rest. You stroll along, supporting a man whose record shows that he doesn't like much at all in the Bill of Rights, and who has voted for measure after measure designed to turn this country into a full-fledged police state. But you apparently don't care about his record; as you did with Bush, you have some offbeat metaphysical notion that if you say the man is great, then the fact that he has shown himself at heart to be a statist authoritarian theocrat isn't relevant.

Though John McCain is enough like you, or vice versa, that this isn't surprising: you both have a close-held fantasy in place of reality, and nothing at all will jar you from it.

Check his record, Chance -- it took me less than an hour to find that he has in fact voted for measures that would turn the Bill of Rights to slag, item by item. It would do you good to know your candidate.

 

[Kulindahr]

and ur on ignore bro - hope u don't find that impugning on ur liberty

My liberty?
All that you putting me on ignore does is tell the world that you really are the sad little boy whose hero-worship has him blinded to the truth.
The truly sad part is that your "hero" isn't one, given that he caved in the POW camp and signed confessions. And a hero doesn't go over to Iraq and say how wonderful it was and no protection was needed when he had his own private little army watching out for him every step of the way.

 

[Kulindahr]

What did I miss?

I said he ditched his parachute -- i.e. he already had it on and was under canopy, from which he cut away and went head-down to track and catch the guy in trouble. He passed 200mph... straight down... to catch a student with a partial canopy tumbling at probably on the order of 50 mph.
Maybe it comes from you not being a skydiver.

Like I said,the highest rank I ever got was E-4 ,I never got to sit in on the big strategy meetings.I just had to do what the officers and my NCO's told us to do..That usually included lots of dumb shit that never made much sense..

Our role in war was mainly to locate enemy armor and infantry, withdraw and let our tanks or artillery fuck them up..http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=39

Ideally,we wouldn't be seen and would be able to observe,report and withdraw.

So simple a caveman could do it..

Okay, the strategy aspect is simple: by merely being there to be overrun, the Berlin Brigade caused the enemy to surround it with overwhelming force. If that force was facing it, it wasn't somewhere else.
I think it was Clausewitz who noted that sometimes an army exerts a powerful influence over a war by merely existing. Those guys in Berlin did that, and even if they'd been ground into the mud in a couple of hours, that was a couple of hours those enemy units wouldn't be doing anything anywhere else, and then they'd need time to reorganize and deploy somewhere else -- which in turn would increase the enemy's logistics headaches, especially since the allied air forces would have been playing havoc with transportation systems.
There's a historical example fluttering at the edge of my memory where a basically undersupplied and barely competent force effectively provided the opportunity to win a war, by making the enemy tie down five or six times its number of troops by just being in a very important position. Anyway, like it, the Berlin Brigade would win a battle, though in its case by being destroyed.

 

[Kulindahr]

Fair enough..That makes sense..

But from what I can remember of the horror stories they would tell us about Soviet strategy,I think EVERY unit along the border could expect every tank in the Soviet Army to be headed our way..

Well, yes, their strategic thinking involved burying the enemy. But in a way, that just accented the desirability of having other places to make them park troops. It's a SunTzu sort of warfare, making the enemy spend his resources before the fighting even starts -- something Reagan was doing by pushing "Star Wars", whether or not he even believed in it (which didn't matter; enough of the Politburo believed that he believed, and so believed it might actually work....).
The guy I knew in Intelligence, who was in Brussels (protecting the Sprouts, no doubt), said even they had multiple plans for the Soviets showing up in vast multitudes.

We were told that they would start by sending in their oldest tanks so we could give away our positions engaging them..So we practiced fire missions (artillery/air support) a lot, but sooner or later we would be on our own..

Of course our M-60's and M-1 tanks woulda tore them older tanks up, but in the meantime our positions would be observed,and we would use up most of our ammunition engaging the tanks and crews they sacrificed in the first waves..

Then with our positions exposed,and low on munitions we could expect either a classic Soviet artillery barrage,or,they would send in their newer tanks ,3 to our 1followed by infantry to kill those who had survived..

Very, very SunTzu, among others: make the enemy spend real money on your crap currency, so to speak. This, BTW, was one of the reasons a President's Science Council actually recommended building the THOR orbital system: ten thousand falling alloy spikes/poles would mean ten thousand Soviet targets our guys wouldn't have to reveal their positions to kill.

Either way,I was pretty sure I didn't want any part of it. But there I was.And from what I saw of their soldiers we occasionally passed on the border, they looked a lot meaner than we did..

Part of the same equation: their poorest quality guys were up front, the kind that look mean to compensate for not really having the materiel to do the job -- standard cannon fodder. They also looked mean because they knew their equipment was no match for what they faced, and if it started, they were all going to die.

I would imagine the guys in the Berlin Brigade just woulda died a little quicker..

Didn't mean to badmouth your freind, but the Berlin Brigade was real dog and pony.The Army is full of dumbshit,and some argued that the Berlin Brigades facination with looking pretty wasn't so much sucking ass, as it was attention to detail..

That attention to detail, it was argued ,was what might save their lives..

I never really bought it.Training saves lives, not brightly polished hallways..c

It was attention to detail that made him one of the country's first Safety and Training Advisors for skydiving. I don't know why or when he switched from Airborne (or to it?), but I can't see him as being just for show, even if that was his job description. He was the sort who, after running out of ammo, would have thrown his weapon, and then looked around for other things to throw (as opposed to a wrestling coach I once had, who would have thrown his weapon, then charged).

It's also a truism in military history that when good troops are forced to face overwhelming odds, they start paying obsessive detail to every aspect of their jobs, to avoid "barracks syndrome" where the fighting edge is lost for lack of anything relevant to do. I do recall him and a friend visiting him commenting that when a guy trying to leave the East got shot at and toyed with before the Soviets finally killed him, everyone at the barracks broke down, cleaned, reassembled, and polished everything in sight -- because that was all they could do.

It's too bad we don't have presidential candidates with that experience, or anything close to it.