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The expanding Israel-Hamas war

You might be right about Bibi but how dumb can the Israelis be he’s supposed to be Mr Security, he has failed at his own reason for being PM.

I don’t think for a second that anyone duped Hamas into attacking Israel. I see this as more the Hamas tail wagging the iranian dog. Is anyone really surprised that with Israel talking deal with MBS with no mention of the Palestinians at all that they struck out?

Unlike the way it is portrayed in the media I think Iran looks awful in this war. They pretend to be a leader in the Islamic world and support the Palestinians but have not lifted a finger to really help. I bet Hamas hoped for more and is bitterly disappointed with a leader who talks big but delivers little.
 
I also don't know why anyone thinks Bibi was the author of this. It started well before hum, will continue after him. He's a criminal who just used it.
 
Norri said:
You might be right about Bibi but how dumb can the Israelis be he’s supposed to be Mr Security, he has failed at his own reason for being PM.

I don’t think for a second that anyone duped Hamas into attacking Israel. I see this as more the Hamas tail wagging the iranian dog. Is anyone really surprised that with Israel talking deal with MBS with no mention of the Palestinians at all that they struck out?

Unlike the way it is portrayed in the media I think Iran looks awful in this war. They pretend to be a leader in the Islamic world and support the Palestinians but have not lifted a finger to really help. I bet Hamas hoped for more and is bitterly disappointed with a leader who talks big but delivers little.
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Iran is the leader in a faction of the Islamic world. The people they recruited for Hamas are anti-Israel, NOT pro-Palestinian. Iran is such a pariah state anyway, they could give a fuck about "how it looks."
 
TX-Beau said:
I also don't know why anyone thinks Bibi was the author of this. It started well before hum, will continue after him. He's a criminal who just used it.
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Politically he preferred Hamas to the PLO as Hamas didn’t want a state so that made it easy for him. The PLO wants a state but since he doesn’t want them to have one they are a problem. The europeans pressure Israel over the state the PLO wants but never over Hamas. His policy his failure.
 
Again, this war was pushed by the Kremlin and Iran.

The Kremlin needs resources diverted away from Ukraine. This is the way to do it.

Hamas' attack is known to have been funded from Moscow and the Kremlin supplied them with weapons taken from Ukraine that are turning up in Gaza and the north.

As long as Israel is prosecuting war in the the middle east, it buys RRRxxzzia more time in Ukraine.

This is what real world war looks like.
 
rareboy said:
Again, this war was pushed by the Kremlin and Iran.

The Kremlin needs resources diverted away from Ukraine. This is the way to do it.

Hamas' attack is known to have been funded from Moscow and the Kremlin supplied them with weapons taken from Ukraine that are turning up in Gaza and the north.

As long as Israel is prosecuting war in the the middle east, it buys RRRxxzzia more time in Ukraine.

This is what real world war looks like.
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What evidence do you have that Hamas was ordered from Moscow and Tehran? I can see how it helps Putin but as I’ve said Iran doesn’t look good here as sitting on your hands is not helpful in war. In the past Hamas has gone against Iranian interests and suffered the loss of funding for yrs that doesn’t sound like a group that when Iran says jump they ask how high.

It is Hamas interests that are primarily being served here which Indicates they did not need any encouragement.
 
Not ordered.

Encouraged and financed. For some months they have been planning this with involvement and support by RF. I've posted the chain of Money through a Moscow bank to Hamas that has financed this invasion.

This was pure quid pro quo. Hamas got the money. Kremlin got a diversion.

Hamas is apparently unquestionably so blinded and stupid to consequences that they thought the timing would be good for an actual invasion of Israel. Hamas is nothing but a history of bad moves and bad choices...and they may have thought that while attention was elsewhere, they might achieve the pan Arab uprising that would eliminate Israel?
 
People fleeing the Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City were shot at by surrounding Israeli forces, Doctors Without Borders claimed Saturday...
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Here's the problem with Israeli strategy, and why they are losing international support.
 
Do you really think that Israel even cares any more?
 
rareboy said:
Do you really think that Israel even cares any more?
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I don't think Bibi does, he's intent on handing the terrorists exactly what they are after, but I do think a lot of Jews everywhere care.
 
Of course, with their tub-thumping 'conference' in Saudi Arabia...all the noisy regimes are making threatening noises about maybe having to send troops in to assist Hamas.

Meanwhile, Israel is warning Beirut that it could end up looking like Gaza if the bombing from Lebanon doesn't cease...and has been firing back at Hezbollah cells all day.
 
rareboy said:
Not ordered.

Encouraged and financed. For some months they have been planning this with involvement and support by RF. I've posted the chain of Money through a Moscow bank to Hamas that has financed this invasion.

This was pure quid pro quo. Hamas got the money. Kremlin got a diversion.

Hamas is apparently unquestionably so blinded and stupid to consequences that they thought the timing would be good for an actual invasion of Israel. Hamas is nothing but a history of bad moves and bad choices...and they may have thought that while attention was elsewhere, they might achieve the pan Arab uprising that would eliminate Israel?
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Encouraged and financed but solely a Hamas decision I can accept but I do wonder at least on the Iranian side what the answer was when Hamas asked what about those Hezbollah missiles and how many can we count on you firing off. Maybe they never asked the question but thats hard to believe unless they define success as martrydom.

It seems more likely the question was asked and currently Hamas is saying unkind things about Iran throughout the terrorist world. Time should clear the matter up for us.
 
TX-Beau said:
I don't think Bibi does, he's intent on handing the terrorists exactly what they are after, but I do think a lot of Jews everywhere care.
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It has occurred to me that Bibi is going over the top in Gaza in a disgusting attempt to save his stinkin job and stay out of the pokey. Let’s hope that is his legacy as opposed to the one he was dreaming of on 10-6.
 
Bibi is not the problem here.

Be under no illusion. He just is doing the bidding of a a very powerful sector of Israeli population...and it is easy to keep saying that all Israelis don't support this...but the majority in Israel likely do.

The attack by Hamas may have been totally predictable because of the horrible treatment of Palestinians, but this has been going on for decades...the West Bank settlements, the forcing of Palestinians into ever smaller territories...the Israelis are at heart compliant and complicit Zionists in an existential struggle.
 
rareboy said:
Bibi is not the problem here.

Be under no illusion. He just is doing the bidding of a a very powerful sector of Israeli population...and it is easy to keep saying that all Israelis don't support this...but the majority in Israel likely do.
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I’m sure a majority of Israelis do support this they were struck and they want to strike back. We can discuss the degree of striking back but the desire to do so is a feature of our species. And when I say Israelis I include Arab citizens of Israel who also support this war according to what I have read. They are not allowed to join the IDF but many have signed up to help with casualties and logistics. Who can blame them I’d rather be a second rate citizen of Israel than be ruled by Hamas.
 
IDF have now joined and cut off Ash Shati camp from the rest of Gaza City. This can only mean that the Hamas fighters have been suppressed across this front or retreated easterly in Gaza City. UN agencies are begging for humanitarian ceasefire. And bombing apparently killed a number of people at the UN offices yesterday.

israelpalestine.liveuamap.com

Palestine and Israel news today on map - Jerusalem today - Israel News today - Palestine News today - israelpalestine.liveuamap.com

Israeli-Palestine conflict in live news interactive map. Israeli-Palestinian war. Israeli-Lebanese war. War map
israelpalestine.liveuamap.com israelpalestine.liveuamap.com
 
IDF also now control the port at Gaza and you can be sure that it will never be returned to Palestinian control since it likely has been an important route for bringing in weapons and ammunition.

I am sure that small boats can still land along the coast...but the control of the only real port eliminates any larger vessels from entering or leaving.

I am surprised that maps don't show a band of control at the southern border of Gaza with Egypt. If they seize control of this zone then Hamas effectively has no land routes for weapons and equipment left to them and eventually will just run out.

Today, IDF indicated they had found ammunition stores in Al Qud university and a mosque. I suspect most of the mosques are storing weapon and ammo...and the sadly, so are likely most of the hospitals in Gaza.
 
You are correct and I am in error. Accurate information is always appreciated.
 
The King of Jordan has stated that he rejects any notion of the re-occupation of Gaza by Israel.

I think that ship has sailed. We are likely watching one of those points in our lifetime when Israel effectively annexes the portion of Gaza that represents the greatest danger to its security. I can't think of any conditions that would return Gaza City to Palestinian control.

Israel announces that over 200,000 Gazans have fled to the south of the Gaza strip.

Meanwhile, IDF must be moving forces in from the east side of the strip with tanks surrounding a hospital there. One assumes that because Hamas uses the hospitals to store ammunition and as a base for their fighters, IDF will try to capture every major medical centre in the north in order to prevent the kind of stand-off that has occurred at Al Shifa hospital.

There are still about half a dozen other hospitals though that will likely be targets for Hamas and IDF forces.

IDF tanks are also surrounding Al Quds Hospital while it is evacuated, so it definitely seems that this will be the way to prevent Hamas from using people as a human shield.

There is a picture circulating online shows troops of the Israeli army's Golani Brigade inside Gaza's parliament building in Gaza City, after capturing the site.

This is really no surprise... they pretty much have control over the area.

IDF bombed the area with the (former) Gaza University quite heavily last week just to the southeast, so I suspect most have vacated the area. I am surprised though that Hamas didn't use it as an ammo centre and fortress or didn't booby trap it to prevent this symbolic moment for Israel.
 
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