The expanding Israel-Hamas war

[Norri]

Animals likely don't have 'religious' convictions.

They devour one another out of a biological imperative. They don't pretend their god is superior.

Religion is not the only reason people go to war. Neither the Persians nor the Romans fought for any religious reason or in the name of any God. In todays world Russia didn’t attack The Ukraine for any religious reason and if we ever fight a war with China no God will be involved. Religion is one reason people fight but it’s not The reason.

 

[Norri]

Collateral damage would be shooting a gun at one person and killing someone walking behind that person. Collateral Damage is unintentional. If you target a school or a shopping center that is not collateral damage any more than the carpet bombing of London or Dresden was collateral damage during WWII. Targeting a school hospital or shopping center for any reason is unethical and a war crime.

What you are saying is that it's acceptable to kill children to get a few terrorists. Why do terrorists put missiles in hospitals, to make Israel commit war crimes, that's why. It remains a war crime to endanger civilians that way, and it is a war crime to kill them to get the terrorists.

It's the intention of terrorists and all proponents of asymmetrical warfare to provoke the target into abandoning their ethics and doing something extreme. The minute you give a terrorist what he wants your ethical position vanishes and there is no longer any difference between terrorists and you.

Under your understanding of war the Israel Air Force has been committing war crimes every day this past week but I have not seen their actions described that way. I completely agree with your last paragraph.

 

[rareboy]

Meanwhile...in another futile gesture, the UN passed a non-binding resolution for a humanitarian ceasefire.

 

[TX-Beau]

Under your understanding of war the Israel Air Force has been committing war crimes every day this past week but I have not seen their actions described that way. I completely agree with your last paragraph.

If you haven't heard the condemnation of what Netanyahu is doing you haven't been listening. International pressure is why a tiny trickle of aid got in, the Arab world has starkly condemned the Israeli response as just that, war crimes, and even Biden is trying to moderate them - despite having a long, long, history of unequivocal support for Israel.

If it makes you feel any better, there are plenty of Israelis and Jews all over the world who also condemn Netanyahu and his failure of policy that led to this disaster, as well as the way he is handling it.

 

[TX-Beau]

Meanwhile...in another futile gesture, the UN passed a non-binding resolution for a humanitarian ceasefire.

I also fail to see the usefulness of these things.

 

[gsdx]

Religion is not the only reason people go to war.

But it's the main one. History has proved that time and time again.

 

[Norri]

But it's the main one. History has proved that time and time again.

Since the death of Christ you are largely correct but I think that’s less because of religion and more because Christ encouraged his followers to spread the Word thereby introducing the concept of proselytizing to the world which lead to the my God is better than your God fights and wars. That concept was unknown in the ancient world.

But let’s be clear here no matter the favored narrative religion has nothing to do with this war it is a fight over land and to believe religion is involved means you must also believe that Hamas would be fine with a foreign muslin power controlling the land which I doubt. When Islamic Turks ruled the area under the Ottoman Empire they were hated.

 

[rareboy]

There's no doubt that tribalism is really the root cause.

Humans have not evolved beyond early struggles for food and fear of tribes who don't look or act like they do. And some of this is based in deeply seated racism as well.

And before Christ, there are so many records of wars between tribes and regions in the quest for control over resources.

And we'll see it increasing even more as water becomes scarcer and natural resources are at stake.

From the beginning, I have noted that the only reason rrrrZZZia invade Ukraine was to take over all the mineral resources and to control the Azov and Black Sea oil and gas. Putin has even openly admitted that this is the real reason for taking the Donbas region.

And the war between Israel and the Palestinians of Gaza is about land. Israel wants it all...including the Gaza strip. And this won't stop until they have it or are forced to cease annexing land...and that will only happen at the tip of a nuclear warhead aimed at their government and civilian population.

 

[gsdx]

Since the death of Christ you are largely correct but I think that’s less because of religion and more because Christ encouraged his followers to spread the Word

There was religion long before Christ. Religion has been around before mankind lived in caves, and wars were fought over those religions and beliefs. Christianity was the most vicious, converting as many non-Christians as they could and destroying or banishing or turning into slaves any which refused to convert.

 

[rareboy]

Kim Jong Un...who is supplying rrrZZZja with weapons and ammo...says that the Middle East conflict is the trigger for World War III and that everyone should be prepared.

I suspect NK's owner, China, is not likely to let him attack South Korea.

But maybe he is contemplating doing it on his own.

And meanwhile in Dagestan....

A crowd of Dagestani people has broken into Makhachkala airport in Rozzzxia, looking for Jews.

Local police remained inactive, and airport employees are trying to hide.

The pogroms are going to begin again in some regions of rrxxxja.

 

[Norri]

There was religion long before Christ. Religion has been around before mankind lived in caves, and wars were fought over those religions and beliefs. Christianity was the most vicious, converting as many non-Christians as they could and destroying or banishing or turning into slaves any which refused to convert.

I can’t think of any ancient wars that were fought over religion excepting perhaps a war that involved the Jews. Their insistence that theirs was the one true God and that pesky first commandment was the cause of most of their troubles.
Acknowledging another tribes Gods passed for good manners in the ancient world so the Jews had bad manners. I just don’t think they were as dedicated to religion as the monotheistic observers of who came after them, hell the Romans just adopted the Greek Gods and changed their names to make them their own. Not much religious depth there.

 

[Norri]

There's no doubt that tribalism is really the root cause.

Humans have not evolved beyond early struggles for food and fear of tribes who don't look or act like they do. And some of this is based in deeply seated racism as well.

And before Christ, there are so many records of wars between tribes and regions in the quest for control over resource

From the beginning, I have noted that the only reason rrrrZZZia invade Ukraine was to take over all the mineral resources and to control the Azov and Black Sea oil and gas. Putin has even openly admitted that this is the real reason for taking the Donbas region.

I have to think about Russia invading for mineral resources as I thought they had lots but maybe you can never have too much. Personally I think Russia invaded for the same geographic reasons the Russians have historically marched west. When Putin looks east he sees the Ural mountains and feels secure just like Ivan the Terrible or Peter the Great but when they look west all they see is the wide open European plane and feel threatened, this is a war about geography and if there were mountains to the west there would be no war.

 

[gsdx]

I can’t think of any ancient wars that were fought over religion excepting perhaps a war that involved the Jews.

You do realise, I hope, that my first response to you included the word 'main'. And religion wasn't invented with the Bible. Sure, Jesus was introduced in the New Testament, but the Old Testament went back to the Big Bang. There were a helluva lot of religions during the times of the Old Testament, and a helluva lot more wars than religions.

Respond if you want. I won't be responding anymore. I'm hungry. It's time to eat.

 

[TX-Beau]

But let’s be clear here no matter the favored narrative religion has nothing to do with this war it is a fight over land and to believe religion is involved means you must also believe that Hamas would be fine with a foreign muslin power controlling the land which I doubt. When Islamic Turks ruled the area under the Ottoman Empire they were hated.

Excuse me? Religion is why the Jews are killing people over it. GOD said they could have it.

 

[rareboy]

Meanwhile, IDF have reached the Green Line which is the main road through Gaza and will likely seek to divide the strip in two, in order to isolate the fighters in north and south. And I suspect will then focus their attention to boxing in Hamas cells and eliminating them one at a time.

 

[Dargelos]

Not everyone is unhappy. Israel's gun shop owners are having a blast, business is booming after an explosion in sales. Everybody is buying a gun because they want to feel 'safe' And your handgun is going to protect you against rocket strikes somehow is it? But but but I need to defend myself against terrorists. That only works in Hollywood movies. In reality, without a gun, they will probably kill you. With a gun they will certainly kill you. The experience of America shows that more guns equals more crime, more accidents, more suicide, but also, more profit, which not the main thing, it's the only thing.

 

[rareboy]

I imagine though, that with so many Israelis killed in ground attacks at the outset...a lot of them now expect to be face to face with their enemies from Hamas without military forces to protect them in their settlements along the border.

 

[rareboy]

And of course rrrZZZn Foreign Ministry of Lies is accusing Ukraine in plotting a pogrom in Mahachkala with the attack on the airport.

Something that would gain Ukraine absolutely nothing...and was triggered by Putin's anti-Israel and anti-Jewish rhetoric over the last week apparently.

 

[johaninsc]

This is the woman was lying in the back of the truck in those early vids.

She was beheaded...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...S&cvid=9d2f1723f5e44df88f507ac44e5fa03f&ei=55

 

[rareboy]

Today, IDF is flushing Hamas out of its underground network of tunnels. One suspects that with imaging capabilities being more advanced now...very few if any of these tunnel complexes that Hamas has been building for the last 20 years will be left intact. Certainly anything west of the Green Line will be dust and ashes.

The worrisome part about this again is that Hamas has integrated these networks so completely beneath civilian infrastructure, including housing complexes that the 'collateral damage' is likely to be horrific.

Israel is fighting a 20th century style war against a foe with a medieval mindset. But with 21st century military capabilities.