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The Ills Of Capitalism

KrisHawkXXX

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IF ANYONE READS THIS CAREFULLY, you might learn something enlightening or have something to think about if you don't agree. If you don't agree, state in a lengthy response that has substance so we can have a real debate here. I'm tired of 4 sentence responses attacking me or the same repeated statements I hear society say about the same shit like a heard of sheep.

This topic is NON centered around Socialism.
THIS IS THE MOST WELL THOUGHT OUT TOPIC I've ever written on this forum since I joined, so please take me seriously and read this thoroughly.

This topic has been written VERY simply for those that have a hard time reading something complex and then just screaming how stupid, wrong or dumb. I am never given an intellectual response back consisting of the definition of Capitalism, Socialism, or Communism. All I get is that Capitalism gives true freedom. ( :rolleyes: )

However I would like to see if people have the intellectualism to see the ills of capitalism, the current societal structure that dominates our globe. Capitalism corrupts the psychology of society and determines how we relate to eachother socially. Because we are in a system that requires the human race to compete against itself, we are far from "Socialized" and we are crippled mentally without realizing it.

While I discuss inevitable flaws of our current system, I would also like to discuss what Capitalism is and how it affects our daily lives in the world around us.

Capitalism is not an economic system, which is a false concept that is believed by many. This distorted concept also is a factor of why people consider Communism an economic system. Capitalism is merely a social structure that has evolved from many other social structures, which all fell within themselves over thousands of years. Nobody knows when capitalism will fall to the next Stage in human society, but looking back at history and our present time, we can assume that the system will be overthrown by the global public at some point in time.

Looking at the world with an omniscient attitude, Capitalism is a social structure in which humans around the globe are separated into different organized pieces of land in which we call "Countries." One of the many ways the elite maintains its power is by keeping the people in an unsocial state and split apart by using manipulation, propaganda, and the imaginary object which we call money. Money doesn't exist, and its demand in society is rather a mental illness. Religion is also another tool of keeping the public oppressed, so when bad things happen, we turn to religion and ignore the big picture as a whole.

By keeping countries from ever being socialized, people develop fears of other cultures, religions, and nations themselves. We are told countless lies about people who are different all the time even now. Propaganda that negatively depicts immigrants seeking a better life, liberal measures, equality for minorities, and other agenda is just a distraction for the general public to argue and fight over even though they are quite trivial. The goal is to keep the public as stupid and misled as possible. The richest of the rich make billions upon billions of dollars, yet the majority of the public are brainwashed into fighting measures that are actually beneficial to society such as better education, medical, roads, technology, raising the minimum wage, etc.

One who receives profit in order for personal gain is a Capitalist, regardless of how they spend their money. Capitalism is a society in which goods and resources must be purchased with the exchange of an imaginary value called "money". This money is represented to the public as pieces of metal that simply came from the earth as well as other hard materials. We believe that money has value, because that is what we are told even as a small child. The propaganda and brainwashing begins at a young age so that the system is ingrained into the mind.

In a business, the employees are technically a commodity and an object for profit to the owner of the company. In business none of the laborers are seen as human beings with a purpose to benefit society, but to earn slave wages as a majority and generate millions or billions to a small percentage of the company. The Capitalists are backed by political parties that aid them in keeping wages low and jobs scarce so that poverty stricken individuals will be desperate to work for next to nothing. The Capitalist system generates high amounts of greed in society seeing that humans must compete against each other in order to stay alive. This scene is very similar to dog fighting and watching two living starving dogs eat each other alive in order to survive. The dogs don't see the owners or the crowd around them as the evil entity. We as the oppressed public blame politicians, each other, money, drugs, minorities, and all these other trivial traits of capitalism. Yet they fail to see the flaws in the system ITSELF. The dogs fighting may develop trust towards their owners because they are the ones who give them "care" initially even though the soul intentions are not known to the dog and that would be exploiting them. In our world, we are the misled dogs who have trust for our system, the countries we know that keep people under control, and money even though we are knowingly exploited by those above yet we don't see it. These things all took "care" of us in a sense growing up, even though the world overall is oppressed BECAUSE of the system. Our environment is heavily damaged because of Capitalism due to profits needing to be made. (One Right-Wing belief is that pollution is needed to make Capitalism work, which is true.)

The goods and services are not created to benefit society, they are created to generate a profit to a small number of individuals or one main individual. Our needs such as food, clothing, housing, water,and means of transportation are always acquired by making a purchase from a Capitalist. We are at the feet of the Capitalist, because without money, we will not be able to survive. The products being sold have diminished efficiency and don't meet our maximum expectations. Food contains processed chemicals and preservatives, because the toxicity in our food generates a profit so that companies can cut corners and not make our meals something we should put in our bodies. These capitalists have legal rights that allow themselves to practice unfair tactics to make a selfish profit at the expense of the public health. Same thing with tobacco and cigarettes, as they are a threat to our public health but serve no purpose but to make capitalists major profits.

One example of a Capitalist nation was the Soviet Union yet many have been misled into thinking that the nation was communist. The citizens of the Soviet Union were controlled by one major Capitalist generating profit for its own purpose. That one Capitalist was the government. The same type of system could develop in America (State Capitalism) if we move towards a laissez faire form of Capitalism if we allow less and less regulation in business. Some of the Soviet profit was used to benefit society, but that's how the USA works too. Our tax dollars pay for things we need, and the profits of Joseph Stalin did the same thing. Many citizens came forth and accused Stalin of being a Capitalist and allowing Russia to become a totalitarian state that competed with the world as one major company. Those individuals would become assassinated and other nations were not informed of what Capitalism or Communism actually meant. It's hard for anyone to see the ills of Capitalism especially when they are living in the era of Capitalism. Communism for many years has been given a bad rep, even though nobody in history has witnessed a true communist let alone Socialist state. Our American government has fed our public lies about Communism as well as Capitalism in order to maintain power structure and fears in those seeking a better future for society as a whole.

Of course small details and differences in government existed, but overall the USA and the Soviet Government were VERY identical the only difference being that the USA has several Capitalists whereas the Soviet Union only had ONE Capitalist. With one Capitalist that is also the one who governs a portion of society, there are no rights, restrictions, rules, nor a fair layout for the nation as a whole. Citizens of the USSR were still required to purchase their living needs and homes, which isn't any different then Capitalism. Those citizens were working for one solid employer while Americans have a choice of who they can work for. By allowing multiple individuals or groups of people to become their own Capitalists, more freedoms are given another small percentage of people even though the system is still flawed. So in THIS case the USA was far less oppressive then the Soviet Union regardless of the fact that both are Capitalist structures. Because the corrupt USSR was so flawed because it was distorted to begin with, people in history saw Communism as a blunder in history that must never be repeated. The real picture is that State Capitalism (Soviet Structure) WILL one day become the future of America as well as world wide. One country will dominate the market and laizze faire will open the doors to State Capitalism. State Capitalism will be the final stage of Capitalism before the public opens their eyes and overthrows Capitalism as we know it. By then, people will look at history and see that everything they've heard about Socialism is an outright lie. Less then 5% of Americans know what Socialism really is, the other 95% aren't necessarily stupid, they are just misinformed and in a way its not their fault.

People are now looking for answers and wondering why "Socialism Doesn't Work" and are finding out that Socialism is not an economic system let alone a system that gives everyone free handouts because they are a bunch of "Lazy Niggers and Spics" which is something all Americans have heard I'm sure. We often hear that That phrase is absurd and isn't a very intellectual statement because that statement is repeated word for word because THAT is what they were told, not something they have been educated about. If someone has the opinion that "Communism sounds great on paper but doesn't work in reality" that means they know nothing about Communism let alone Capitalism at all. Because Communism isn't something people can just TRY it happens on its very own without people realizing it just like other social structures were overthrown over a course of thousands of years. Communism is the final stage of human society.. and that is thousands of years off. The true definition is something very complex to understand and it isn't something you can read online in a matter of a few hours.

The democratic party is a capitalist party. Anyone calling Obama a communist or a Socialist (Make up your fucking minds people, because a socialist and communist are NOT the same thing.) shows that they are misled and brainwashed like the rest of everyone else. Any liberal measure used to regulate business and spread the wealth, doesn't make it a socialist measure.



:rolleyes:
 
Capitalism is a social structure in which humans around the globe are separated into different organized pieces of land in which we call "Countries."

Sorry, that is not what capitalism is.

It seems that your post confuses capitalism with a bunch of other things.
 
Capitalism just doesn't work. Socialism does work, but not extreme Socialism. You do have to put limits in place. It's a balancing act. America has taken all that it can with Capitalism. It has led to full blown Fascism. The crooks have gone in and torn up the joint. It's not pretty. America hasn't been a pioneer in anything for the last 50 years. It's tragic. Every industrialized country is surpassing us in productivity, and innovation. We can't even get health care right. People are literally willing to sell their souls out to the 2% wealthiest people in the country. Why? Because they secretly believe that they too will become rich, and this will be in their best interest. Not smart. American corporations will do anything for a quick buck, even if it means breaking the law, buying politicians, and walking over dead bodies. Three groups now own America: the Chinese, the Indians, and the Saudis. We were sold out for cash. Ironically enough, Communist China is what allows fat, stupid Americans countless hours of entertainment with their new 90" Plasma televisions. Americans are Fascist at heart. It's disturbing. Unfortunately, the chickens have come home to roost. Pay up, or get out! The Corporatists have so much damn money, they'll just flee to another country and set up shop there. After they're not sinking that country, they'll move onto the next.

I say it's high time we drag out the guillotines! :gogirl:
 
Yet competition comes naturally to all life and is responsible for the impetus behind almost all real economic growth and prosperity in the developed World, not to mention a standard of living to even compare to.

Well yes not all competition is a bad thing and I agree that competition will always exist, but competition is very inappropriate in terms of putting people's needs and resources on the line especially when there is more then enough resources. There is enough resources to give every house hold in the world a computer. Competition that alters how people relate to each other in order for survival is immoral. Now Competition for who can win in the Olympics is not a bad thing. Its a bad thing when our resources are held out of our reach unless we pay for it especially when there is enough for everyone so WHY must they be purchased? And why are 99% of the people not getting these resources?. Capitalism is like monkey in the middle because the world resources belong to EVERYONE, not just Capitalists that steal them and make people pay for them with a piece of paper backed up by metal thousands of miles away. That's insane.

Our "Developed" world is currently at a Capitalist State. Capitalism IS a social structure, not an economic system. The concept of an "Economic System" exists only in Capitalism because money is what makes an economic system possible. We see an "Economy" as a good thing because its all we know yet an economy wouldn't need to exist if money was no object. Money was used to help escalate society away from Feudalism into Capitalism.

I'm confused on what you meant by "not to mention a standard of living to even compare to" because in the Capitalist globe 99% of the world is poverty stricken because of the Capitalist structure we live in. The standards of living are HORRIBLE on average. Look around the world and tell me if you honestly think the general standard of living could not improve because it can. If you go into a 3rd world country you should ask someone on the street what they think of their Capitalist nation? ALL countries are Capitalist regardless of what they call themselves, its what they do with their actions. The only reason the standard of living is somewhat decent in America is because we use up most of the world's resources and used unfair and immoral tactics to gain wealth over the years as well as land. Then the government here calls the other Capitalist 3rd world countries communists so that people are dumb enough to believe that Capitalism benefits society all around the globe and that we don't question it.

I believe Capitalism is largely responsible for the structure of society but it is not a societal model in and of itself.

Yes, Capitalism is a social structure. It isn't the first social structure humans have lived in. Society grows and moves into different stages as a whole slowly over time. We started off in a stage of Primitive communism, and after thousands of years we entered the slavery era, that collapsed and society evolved to a Feudalistic structure that would eventually lead into Capitalism that we know today. MANY MANY philosophers depict Capitalism as a social structure. An "ECONOMY" is just an element of Capitalism.

I believe the term for that is "nationalism" and I don't see how that necessarily differs from Communism which also is not necessarily a model for a borderless pan-human existence although some ideologues may have claimed it is.

I see that you don't see the difference between Communism and Nationalism so I will explain. I'm very confused about why you confuse Nationalism with Communism, because most people confuse nationalism with Socialism. Moving on...

Nationalism is another form of Capitalism with a Narcissistic twist to it. Nationalists believe that one group (ethnic, religious, age, gender, etc) should dominate society for that country. Nationalists also believe that their country or state has the most importance then the rest of the world and that the world should see the Nationalist state as a world power. Nationalist theory explains that the nation would grow and grow, until every nation around the globe is one, but still a country that is more corrupt then you can ever imagine. The countries coming together as one wouldn't be a choice of the people, it would be forced upon them. In Nationalism, People will still need to purchase goods and work for a Capitalist.

In communism the world wouldn't be coming together as one because the world would already be whole, because socialism will be the transition stage of a few thousand years between capitalism and Communism. The stage of Socialism would consist of the public overthrowing the governments, economic system, and the Capitalist Social structure as we know it. The world being just one would be by CHOICE rather then being forced to do so in nationalism. When the world comes together as one in the Social structure, people will become socialized and the fear "barriers" of those that are different will fall down along with country borders. When the world comes together as one, we wouldn't be one giant country as with what happens in Nationalist theory. Socialism doesn't consist of one large country, it is one entity where society is together as a whole, and SOCIALIZED. Society as one whole wouldn't BE a country.

Socialism will bring more freedoms and resources to the general global public, but that system will be overthrown eventually as we head into our final social structure.

[/QUOTE]
Money after all is simply a social agreement that a certain unit of value has a universal application, but admittedly most of the time at least in terms of fiat currency it is kept in force by the promise of government to honor payment of debts by that said unit.

Money is not a social agreement. Many people don't agree that money should have any value at all. Money limits what we can do as a society or even as individuals. Most people can't get a home to stay off the streets because they have no money. Money only appeals to those who have it. 99% of the world has no money whatsoever even though the whole world is Capitalist. Doesn't anyone find that disturbing?

Money appeals to us because the concepts of money are FORCED into us as a child. We want 50 cents for a candy bar so we ask our parents. We learn from an early age that we need "money" to get what we want or need. And that's sad.

Even if money is universal agreement between those who govern our countries, there is not enough money to give every human being a paycheck. Only 1% of humans can receive a paycheck that is decent enough to live on. If there was enough money to make Capitalism an efficient way of life, then we wouldn't need competition now would we?


Everything has intrinsic value whether it is water to a farmer or pasture to a shepherd, and in order for a society to function efficiently and thereby increase our standard of living, those values must be quantized into discrete units for purposes of commonly acknowledged given values called free market values.

The overall standard of living is unacceptable and our system has led to a pandemic of world wide poverty. You said yourself that values must be quantized into units for free market values, yet I hope you can catch yourself in this thinking pattern that is ingrained into you. If we saw money as nothing of any value, nothing would need to be counted or quantized, because nothing would be ever need to be sold. Things only need to be quantized in Capitalism. The way things are produced in Capitalism is through occupations such as being a farmer. However a thousand years ago people didn't know how today would become. Things wouldn't be the same in Socialism, they'd be more efficient and the standard of living would be FAR higher because money would be seen as something that isn't needed by our future society.
[/QUOTE]

In a free market system of trade, it's actually people operating their worth to society freely and corporate fat cats are just the ones who abuse the system and others. Abuse occurs in fact in all economic models, corruption and abuse being notable around the World in all major socialist economies.

We wouldn't need a market system of trade in a socialist state, because there would be NO countries. No country would exist to be trading or buying resources, the resources would be distributed by the people themselves, not the Capitalists. No companies would need to make all these products by packing them in a box that just ends up in a landfill.

In Capitalism, people are fooled into thinking they are FREE yet few people ever become well to do. For the majority of the world, how are they free? Those people are imprisoned to poverty, illness, despair, famine, all because they have no money yet their Capitalist countries say they allow them to operate freely.

What Socialist countries are you talking about and what makes them socialist by definition of that country? I'm looking at my globe and can't find one socialist country. All these countries operate under capitalism and have an economy with MONEY IN IT. Not only that, how could a country ever possibly be socialist if countries don't exist in socialism? Please explain :)



You are right, and that's where government steps in. But you must recognize that in a capitalist system, workers benefit society anyway. Moreover it is opportunity which motivates them to produce more and benefit society more still.

Hmmm... Look at the majority of people in this around you and think about how they benefit from Capitalism. Do they have all have adequate health insurance? A decent car? A Home or appropriate standard of living? Good education for themselves and their children? I can't think of ANY Country that meet THOSE standards. If you can, I'd like to know which ones.

People say "oh well there will always be poverty" or "Well I live In America and have everything I need." which I find totally disturbing because it so narcissistic and fucking selfish. That is what Capitalism does to people. Ok so who cares if YOUR needs are met, why not look outside yourselves and care about someone else? How does Capitalism benefit society if it only benefits 1%? Shouldn't Capitalism benefit the MAJORITY of the public and not a minority?

But the end result is that they inevitably benefit society so what is the point in arguing what the intention was in creating them? Not a single person can all ends to their doings but in the end of the day when you are finished your work, whatever it is you do, it is part of a greater whole that advances humanity into ever more prosperous and developed times. Sounds a lot like socialism but it's actually capitalism alone which can achieve that goal. There is nothing about socialism that can compel growth other than authoritarian force. Societies just do not naturally operate that way, sing kumbaya get a long and work harder for the greater good and all that jazz. Civilizations grow by people doing what is best for themselves, which summed inevitably helps the entire group.

Your statement about Socialism compels nothing but an authoritarian force indicates you have little to no knowledge of socialism, and that's ok. :)

That's what those at the top of the power structure WANT you to think.


By the way can you tell me your definitions of Socialism and Communism? I constantly hear phrases like "That's SOCIALIST!" yet they give me a deer in the headlights look when I ask them what Socialism means to them. They tell me something stupid like everyone getting the same paycheck from the government.
 
Capitalism just doesn't work. Socialism does work, but not extreme Socialism.

Where do you see socialism working?! I'm still living in the United States, A country, and I'm having financial problems. Can you share what you know about the definition of Socialism?
 
Sorry, that is not what capitalism is.

It seems that your post confuses capitalism with a bunch of other things.

The concept of organized land has been around in other social structures such as in Feudalism. I believe I was quite accurate when I made that statement. In socialism, there would be no countries.

You know VERY well that isn't all I said. I described Capitalism in MANY paragraphs.

You only responded to part of what I said about Capitalism and just inferred that you disagreed within 2 sentences and then clicked submit reply. Why take part of someone's words and say you disagree without putting the rest of my definition of Capitalism in your quote? That was only 5% of what I said to describe elements of Capitalism, and you based an opinion solely on that.
 
You should be a writer Kris.

sorry i can't read lengthy stuff :)
 
You should be a writer Kris.

sorry i can't read lengthy stuff :)

Lol thank you that was taken as a compliment (*8*)

I don't think anyone is reading anything I said.... I made a statement why Socialism has never been seen by man nor communism.. then someone makes a mention of current socialist countries.... it drives me crazy I feel like I'm not being paid attention to.
 
Capitalism sucks. Period. Many people know this. Other people are in denial about it because it has become like a religious belief for them.
What's the alternative? I have no idea. But it shouldn't stop us from looking.
 
But most do, and that's why money has any value at all.

The only reason most people agree on a hunk of shiny metal actually having more value over peoples' lives is because they were never given a choice. If an infant was born and could have the intelligence to see how Capitalism operates and causes a pandemic of misery and poverty, they wouldn't agree that the world should revolve around a hunk of metal called gold and diamonds.

Its pure insanity, because it would be irrational to say most agree on money having value seeing that its all they've been raised to believe in. Its just like a child growing up in the red states with GOP parents. Imagine that child having intense feelings towards Christianity, and someone comes along to point out why Gays aren't going to hell, why people need health care, why war is wrong etc, and you will be talking to a brick wall.

If someone was raised in a social structure called Capitalism, they would become a brick wall if they were spoken to, unless they were curious about the world and decided to learn something complex that most people don't know.

For democratic liberals, I hope you all know that the democratic party and republican party are BOTH fucked up and corrupt, because both parties are elements of Capitalism and financial regulation.

From A socialist view, democrats are on the far right of social structure, while the GOP are far off the deep end. People who find the democratic party a symbol of good have no idea they are giving into capitalism without even knowing it. I feel the democratic party is the less of the 2 evils, but the party is evil nonetheless.
 
Capitalism is not perfect. Nor is socialism. Your critical analysis is indeed true in its criticism, however you fail to examine the pro's. I will admit that I will not begin to say I have an 'ethically' proper way to bettering the world. But I will tell you that socialism ignores so many constraints that we today understand including Kmax that I wouldn't even begin to claim its effective.
Criticisms of socialism can be seen from multiple fields. From economic stagnation to technological stagnation.
Psychologically your point is extremely moot. Psychologically models like Piaget would argue that the capitalistic virtues gives birth to expansion of cognition. Of course competition is natural, Karl Marx was no biologist. He did not yet understand the concept of Kmax which in all reality invalidates socialism's main pillars.

Kmax = Population capacity maxima.
 
We don't agree on what money is then.

Money is useful to society because it universally represents the intrinsic values of all goods and services thereby making trade between and access to the products of diversified, specialized, and skilled people much easier. That is how a diversified and efficient society operates, division of labor, and it's the only way that a large and complex civilization can operate totally regardless of political ideology.


It's either a standardized hunk of metal or my 3 chickens for your 8 mango's. Standardization of currency historically brought about the major trade routes and influx of new ideas from west to east.
 
We haven't used a "standardized hunk of metal" as a basis for the value of currency since 1971, and it really is basic to know that bartering is too inefficient a means of trade to ever run a global economy in which literally millions of different goods are exchanged every day, and likewise one standardized value unit (money) is too efficient a mechanism to facilitate trade to ever abandon.

"historically"
 
"Standardization of currency historically brought about the major trade routes and influx of new ideas from west to east."

Makes sense to me. Didnt they use salt back then


Depends on the time period. Venetian merchants I believe did use salt as a trade currency for a while until around the crusades.
 
Money historically was not only specie but also rather hard to come by, especially in the Middle Ages. Substitutes were used when circulating currency was too difficult to acquire en masse for instance in the pay of Roman soldiers.

Of course minted currency was also manipulated by Emperors when such as when Nero broke the Drachma? into halfs and maintained their value.
But I'm speaking historically I'm talking silk road trade and classics like that. The middle ages and Roman empire were an interesting time in terms of currencies as minted currencies became widely used versus unminted gold/silver which characterized pre-classic Greece.
The middle ages serfdom made currency something only necessary for a small number of people I will add. Only nobles had minted coins as serfs didn't need/obtain the money.
 
It's either a standardized hunk of metal or my 3 chickens for your 8 mango's. Standardization of currency historically brought about the major trade routes and influx of new ideas from west to east.

I think the salient point here is that money has no intrinsic value. A dollar only has value because we believe it does. There hasn't been a link to anything of real value, like gold or silver for over 40 years. Think about it. It's a piece of paper. Nothing more. I'd rather have the mangos.
 
I don't think anyone is reading anything I said.... I made a statement why Socialism has never been seen by man nor communism.. then someone makes a mention of current socialist countries.... it drives me crazy I feel like I'm not being paid attention to.

Maybe that's because you don't know what you're talking about? ..|
 
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