The next pandemic: DETRANSITIONERS!

[lefingum]

Has anyone read the Cass report? Is that a "medical authority" or is that TERF-funded as well? The Cass review is pretty big, but to summarize, it basically states that medicalizing gender-dysphoric children shows no long term effect in improving mental well-being, and that puberty blocker seems to be manufacturing transness in people, as nearly everyone who goes on to blocker then goes on to cross-sex hormones (so it's not a pause button as claimed), while not putting people on puberty blocker shows 70-90% desistance rate.

Final Report – Cass Review

cass.independent-review.uk

 

[unloadonme]

Is that a "medical authority" or is that TERF-funded as well?

The Cass Review, more properly the Independent Review of Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People, was commissioned by England's National Health Service. It was chaired by Hilary Cass, a retired consultant paediatrician and former president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. I'd say that's more medical authority than TERF.

Cass Review - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[lefingum]

The Cass Review, more properly the Independent Review of Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People, was commissioned by England's National Health Service. It was chaired by Hilary Cass, a retired consultant paediatrician and former president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. I'd say that's more medical authority than TERF.

Cass Review - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That TERF-part was added as a tongue-in-cheek sarcasm to a certain member who keeps accusing everyone and every source of being "TERFy" or "phobic". Youtube videos are useless to him, but surely the Cass review is not?

 

[Alistair]

 

[rareboy]

Re the Cass report:

While experts in the field say more studies should be done, Canadian doctors who spoke to CBC News disagree with the finding that there isn't enough evidence puberty blockers can help.

"There actually is a lot of evidence, just not in the form of randomized clinical trials," said Dr. Jake Donaldson, a family physician in Calgary who treats transgender patients, including prescribing puberty blockers and hormone therapy in some cases.

"That would be kind of like saying for a pregnant woman, since we lacked randomized clinical trials for the care of people in pregnancy, we're not going to provide care for you.… It's completely unethical."

The World Professional Association of Transgender Health (WPATH), in its influential guidelines, notes "the number of studies is still low" on gender-affirming care for young people, but there is a "slowly growing body of evidence supporting the effectiveness of early medical intervention."

Numerous studies cited by WPATH, CPS and other medical groups suggest that access to puberty blockers helps transgender youth, and is associated with improved mental health and lower risk of suicidal thoughts and ideas.

What Canadian doctors say about new U.K. review questioning puberty blockers for transgender youth (CBC/Radio-Canada; April 15, 2024)

Obviously, for Trans averse England, the Cass Report is a godsend.

But for a large number of independent reviewers, it is as flawed as the studies it challenges.

Unfortunately, the Review repeatedly misuses data and violates its own evidentiary standards by resting many conclusions on speculation. Many of its statements and the conduct of the York SRs reveal profound misunderstandings of the evidence base and the clinical issues at hand. The Review also subverts widely accepted processes for development of clinical recommendations and repeats spurious, debunked claims about transgender identity and gender dysphoria. These errors conflict with well-established norms of clinical research and evidence-based healthcare. Further, these errors raise serious concern about the scientific integrity of critical elements of the report’s process and recommendations.

An Evidence-Based Critique of “The Cass Review” on Gender-affirming Care for Adolescent Gender Dysphoria (Yale Law School; The Integrity Project; white paper; July 2024)

Safe to say, the Cass Reprt is far from being the final answer.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

^ Maebe Bright Sunshine started her transition in 2021. IIRC, regret only tends to peak after 7-10 years

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Here’s What J.K. Rowling Has Actually Said About Trans People (New York Magazine; February 2023)

No, that's just another article putting words in her mouth.

HERE's what she has REALLY said about trans people: https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/...ns-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

 

[KaraBulut]

Has anyone stopped and asked themselves, "Why do we care about the medical opinions of a fiction writer?".

Every time anyone- on either side of the issue- quotes something that Rowling said about gender transitioning- it's like quoting Jenny McCarthy on vaccines. Neither person has any medical knowledge that gives their opinions any special validity.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Have you actually read her statement?

J.K. Rowling Writes about Her Reasons for Speaking out on Sex and Gender Issues - J.K. Rowling

Warning: The below content is not appropriate for children. Please check with an adult before you read this page. To go back to the children’s page, please click here. This isn’t an easy piece to write, for reasons that will shortly become clear, but I know it’s time to explain myself on an...

www.jkrowling.com

Where does it contain any medical opinions? It only talks about the rights of women and gays.

 

[rareboy]

Well you certainly missed the point then, didn't you?

 

[Taz]

I read the CASS review and to me it seemed like they really want to take puberty blockers out of the equation. they really just want to take away people's choices as usual.

 

[unloadonme]

I read the CASS review and to me it seemed like they really want to take puberty blockers out of the equation. they really just want to take away people's choices as usual.

At the risk of going off topic, I've just Googled average ages of puberty. It's 8 to 13 for girls and 9 to 14 for boys. Are children of that age really competent to make potentially life-changing decisions about gender identity? I'm sure I wasn't even aware that transsexualism existed when I was that age. I don't think it's a question of taking away choices so much as ensuring that choices are based on mature consideration rather than passing whims.

 

[rareboy]

At the risk of going off topic, I've just Googled average ages of puberty. It's 8 to 13 for girls and 9 to 14 for boys. Are children of that age really competent to make potentially life-changing decisions about gender identity? I'm sure I wasn't even aware that transsexualism existed when I was that age. I don't think it's a question of taking away choices so much as ensuring that choices are based on mature consideration rather than passing whims.

At the age of 11 I had a biological imperative and surety that I was a homosexual...before I hit sexual puberty.

Are you suggesting that that this was a passing whim?

 

[unloadonme]

At the age of 11 I had a biological imperative and surety that I was a homosexual...before I hit sexual puberty.

Are you suggesting that that this was a passing whim?

In your case, clearly not. I was around 8 or 9 when I realised I was attracted to men rather than women. At no stage, however, then or now would I have considered any form of conversion treatment.

If people feel the need to transition, then so be it. It is however, in my view, completely delusional to think that a trans man is the same as a biological man or vice versa. At the age of 8 or 9 I could no more have been made a woman than I could have been made to be straight.

 

[Taz]

At the risk of going off topic, I've just Googled average ages of puberty. It's 8 to 13 for girls and 9 to 14 for boys. Are children of that age really competent to make potentially life-changing decisions about gender identity? I'm sure I wasn't even aware that transsexualism existed when I was that age. I don't think it's a question of taking away choices so much as ensuring that choices are based on mature consideration rather than passing whims.

Perhaps they are, perhaps they aren't. it depends on the individual.

That was also the point of providing puberty blockers, as they have a low impact and allow the child time to mature and think.

The problem arises because the study suggests that puberty blockers are ineffective. They give the evidence that younger and pre-teens who elect to take puberty blockers in the vast majority of cases, go through with transitional therapy at a later stage. The study viewed this as a failure of puberty blockers. This is an inherant bias. You cannot say that because they decided to transition anyway that the blockers were ineffective, as this would mean that in order for them to have found puberty blockers to be effective, more children would elect not to transition. That is just trans denialism.

So they conclude that people should not have access to puberty blockers for this reason. This now leaves a pre-teen younger teen in the position of, you are about to enter puberty, you are experiencing gender dysphoria, and your body will change forever one way or the other very soon. They have taken away that child's ability to have time to understand themselves and then make the decision be it transition or no.

the alternative they offer is psychological counseling

The problem i had was that, it is written in the study that psychological therapy has less evidence of positive outcome than puberty blocker.

So in this case, how is taking away the choice to use puberty blockers doing anything than the opposite of what you suggest you want, which is a mature consideration and not just a passing whim?

 

[Taz]

Also I know you are an older bloke now, but when you were young im sure you didn't even know what gay was, let alone that you would be a gay man in the future. maybe you knew you were attracted to men but did you really understand what homosexuality was? Even when I was a kid I had such little exposure to it all i knew is that it was different and scary. There is far more awareness these days and children have a concept of what these things are because of the various and tireless efforts of the LGBTQIA+ communtiy to become more visible.

 

[Taz]

In your case, clearly not. I was around 8 or 9 when I realised I was attracted to men rather than women. At no stage, however, then or now would I have considered any form of conversion treatment.

If people feel the need to transition, then so be it. It is however, in my view, completely delusional to think that a trans man is the same as a biological man or vice versa. At the age of 8 or 9 I could no more have been made a woman than I could have been made to be straight.

There's the old "so be it, but let me voice my negative opinion about something that doesn'y effect me" If they want to be gay that's their business, but i really hate the gays why can't they just be normal.

Also nobody is saying a trans man is the exact same thing as a "biological" man, we are just asking you to show that smallest amount of respect by dropping the qualifiers and just say man.

 

[lefingum]

At the age of 11 I had a biological imperative and surety that I was a homosexual...before I hit sexual puberty.

Are you suggesting that that this was a passing whim?

You do understand that homosexuality is not an irreversible thing; if you were mistaken and later turned out to be straight, no harm done.
Transitioning, however, is irreversible. Even puberty blockers can cause irreversible side effects.

 

[luckynumbah7]

You do understand that homosexuality is not an irreversible thing; if you were mistaken and later turned out to be straight, no harm done.
Transitioning, however, is irreversible. Even puberty blockers can cause irreversible side effects.

No it isn't, christ. You go off hrt and largely revert, barring some permanent changes. You know what is irreversible? Natal puberty. That shit takes surgery to correct.

 

[rareboy]

You do understand that homosexuality is not an irreversible thing; if you were mistaken and later turned out to be straight, no harm done.
Transitioning, however, is irreversible. Even puberty blockers can cause irreversible side effects.

The point apparently also has flown high above you as well.