The Official MADONNA Discussion Thread!

[Green_Man_007]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

She's rich. And a media darling. Doesn't that give her the right to do whatever the hell she wants to do?

Actually, it does

Where have you been?

We let Paris Hilton drive on public roads, Stephen "BioDome" Baldwin be a missionary, Courtney Love reproduce, and Mel Gibson make an Aramaic snuff film.

Adopting a foreign baby is done all the time by average people.

 

[belamy]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

This thread reminds me so much of the one about the recent havoc wreaked on that dancing penguin...

 

[xcasex]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

OH my God.
I am SOOOOOO Fucking tired of hearing about Mandonna.
She wants to circumcise HER kid.
What exactly is so barbaric about that?
I can see if she wanted to get "Madonna's Kid" branded on his forehead or something. But circumcision? Let's be real. It's 2006. He isn't the first.

 

[Green_Man_007]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

Is this really about circumcision or about Madonna?

Great question

I'm not a huge fan of Madonna as a performer, but I admire her as a business woman.

I also have great respect for her as a mother.

As much as she likes to stire the media into frenzy, you'll never see her let them exploit her children, and you'd only see them wearing outrageous outfits on Hallowe'en, if they so choose to wear them and be photographed.

 

[Nonimus]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

Let me see if I got this right:

Madonna is evil because:

She wants to have her adopted child circumsised
She adopted a child from Malawi

Have any of you actually been to Africa? I'm not talking about the southern tip, the islands off Africa or the pyramids. I mean places like Malawi, which have problems with widespread starvation, disease, HIV and high infant mortality. I very much doubt you have. Maybe Madonna could have just thrown some money at Malawi, smiled pretty for the cameras, got back on her jet and left. Instead, she adopted a child and thus brought far more attention to this crisis that had ever been paid to it before. She is also enriching the life of one person, who will hopefully, serve as an example of what the children in Malawi can become if the international community got off it's collective ass and did something concrete for the people other than sending their government money.

As for the removal of the child's foreskin: get over it! I know many of you have strong feelings about this, but calling it "barbaric mutilation" is a bit much in my opinion. She is doing this for her own reasons, be they hygenic or religious. I don't think circumcision is a good thing, but as far a I can tell, nobody has asked me for my opinion on what Madonna should do with her child.

I think "barbaric mutilation" might be what happened to the men and women in Congo who had their arms, legs, feet, ears and eyelids cut off, tounges cut out, fingers snapped off, etc. during the Congo Wars. Or maybe "barbaric mutiliation" describes the damage the US inflicted on people we partially burned alive with Napalm.

A good point well made. I have a good freind from Rawanda, and he told me about part of his puberty initiation rite which occurred when he was 12 years old:

He and a group of other 12 year old boys who were also being 'initiated' were marched down to the riverside stark naked. It was at the crack of dawn, and the riverside was chosen because it was cold and would make their penis shrivell.

Then the leader of the community stood them over a tree stump, yanked their foreskin forward and 'slash' down came the chopper - the boy's were now 'men'.

Circumcision is a rite belonging to made cultures world-wide ancient and modern, not just the Jews or indeed the "Kabbalah cult".

So back to Belamy's question: Is this about Madonna or about Circumcision?

 

[Soilwork]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

I will say this...

ciscumcision is a barbaric practice done by parents who think of their children as property and not people.

I have never forgiven my parents for doing it to me, and I never will.

If you're that hell bent on ciscumcision, you should get it done as an adult and not take that decision away from a baby who has no say in the matter.



That being said.. Madonna isn't even fucking Jewish.. she's some Kabala poseur who's publicity stunts have included pretending to be a lesbian, walking around naked in public, wearing underwear in public, making "controvescial videos" for sub-par songs in an effort to have another hit, dating Michael Jackson, pretending she can act, shaing off her eye brows, making a coffee table book that featured close-up photos of her vagina, having her first daughter and parading around the latino man she chose as the donor at a press conference, being a bitch to David Letterman and Arsenio Hall on their shows and countless other stupid things which are just too ridiculous to mention.

She's a genius, that's for sure... she's made being famous possible for LOTS of people who can't sing, can't act, can't dance and can't write songs.

She'll be Catholic again in a year or two, and she'll still have circumcized her son... which let's face it.. is just YET ANOTHER fucking publicity stunt.

 

[Nonimus]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

Belamy, Nonimus.

It's about both.
Madonna the creature who would inflict her religious doctrine upon a child, her using the child as an accessory, and her complete and utter reversion to the dark ages in circumcising the boy.

EDIT: Perfectly said, Soilwork.

Fair enough, that's your opinion, although the use of the 'Dark Ages' is questionable to say the least, I take it you're using it as a metaphor. I'm sure there's more to life than having a piece of skin on the end of your penis. Mine was removed as an infant and I have no bitterness or resentment - It has never been an issue or a problem.

 

[luminum]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

This is more of a circumcision thread, obviously.

I feel that circumcision is wrong. The reasons for doing it are hardly worth the rediculousness of the proceedure and the high rates of messing the operation up. the rate of a penis being messed up is 2 in 100. That's two boys with penises damaged or even worse,d estroyed, by botched circumcisions.

Statistically, any 'protection' and 'hygiene' offered by circumcision is pathetically minimal. Even studies regarding increased protection from STD's are conflicted, one group achieving great results, another reaching no difference in protection.

Is it worth that?

Up until recently (and we're talking really recently) circumcisions were performed without any form of anesthetic because doctors had some kind of perverse notion that babies couldn't feel pain, or even if they could, they wouldn't remember it, so babies were held down and skinned.

As for brises (sp?), I doubt dropping some wine in a kid's mouth is really going to make things that much better.

And besides medically, circumcision is a decision that only the person with the foreskin should make. Doing anything else, out of pure aesthetic or fluidity of religion or cultural tradition is a violation of personal body. Madonna, of all people, should understand how religious and cultural beliefs can change.

And this doesn't just apply to her, but all people who understand personal choice in all things moral, religious, and based in the body.

So yes, I think it's just as 'barbaric' and outdated a mutilation when made without consent when the person is unable to consent as female circumcision. Just because it's a cultural or religious tradition doesn't make it right.

 

[J-23]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

So first she adopts a son (for publicity purposes). And now she's mutilating him (for publicity purposes) in the name of a religion with which she associates herself (for publicity purposes). Yay for attention whores!

 

[RenaissanceMan]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

ciscumcision is a barbaric practice done by parents who think of their children as property and not people.

On the other hand, your parents do get to decide a lot in your early years about your future...and there are I guess some hygienic reasons for circumcision. Children may not be property, but parents quite well deserve some influence over their children. My parents didn't do it because it was also unheard of in their culture, though I ended up needing it for medical reasons. Why this is a religious thing, I'm not sure. My circumcision was not my choice, but it was far from barbaric. Now, if they purposely tried to prolong my pain...

 

[Soilwork]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

On the other hand, your parents do get to decide a lot in your early years about your future...and there are I guess some hygienic reasons for circumcision.

I asked my parents why they did it, and they didn't know.

"We didn't really give it any thought.. they just said 'we'll circumcize them tomorrow' at the hospital and we just had it done..."

they didn't do it for any reason other than... they just let it happen.

(and that hygenic reason is a lie... there's no truth to it at all. You may as well cut off my ears because you're too lazy to teach me to clean behind them)

 

[gabriel1]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

My foreskin is sacred. Rub it and you see a genie appear.

The only thing is when the genie "SPITS in my eye" OUCHHH!

 

[sb]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

what will be the next controversy?...... Madonna takes adopted baby to doctor to get needles filled with vaccines against diseases jabbed in its body

If I had a child I wouldn't have it circumcized but a baby getting circumcized is hardly scandal worthy.

 

[J-23]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

what will be the next controversy?...... Madonna takes adopted baby to doctor to get needles filled with vaccines against diseases jabbed in its body

If I had a child I wouldn't have it circumcized but a baby getting circumcized is hardly scandal worthy.

Well, protecting your child against potentially fatal diseases is a bit different than mutilating its genitalia for absolutely no reason.

And I think people find it scandal-worthy because she's doing it in the name of a religion that she only "practices" in order to attract attention to herself. Plus the fact that she said her son is too young to be associated with any belief system.

 

[Nonimus]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

Well, protecting your child against potentially fatal diseases is a bit different than mutilating its genitalia for absolutely no reason.

And I think people find it scandal-worthy because she's doing it in the name of a religion that she only "practices" in order to attract attention to herself. Plus the fact that she said her son is too young to be associated with any belief system.

I wasn't aware that Madonna had made such a statement, and if such is true then that makes her stance hypocritcal. From the same source as jlukes19 refers:

"Malawi is a country ravaged by poverty, hunger, and disease. Here, more than half the population lives on less than 50 cents a day and with one of the highest rates of HIV infection in the world life, expectancy is 41 years."

To take a child from that kind of background and introduce it to a land where opportunity flourishes is good thing. I'm no Madonna fan at all, in fact - I've never bought ONE of her singles, but she has to be applauded for making a difference in one person's life.

On the topic of circumsicion: Statements such as 'barbaric' and 'dark ages' are pathetic and emotive if there's nothing more to your life than a piece of skin on the end of your dick - i pity you. There are people out there who treat their kids like shit, ignore them, abuse them put them down at every chance and even reject them for trivial matters such as not doing well in school to being gay. All parents fuck up at some point or another, this kid got a lucky break - let's just hope he realizes what benefits have been placed before him.

 

[Nonimus]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

Several points Paul:

1) There's no point having an incredible dick is the guy is a cunt! - Good point for both sides

2) whenever these threads come up we get the same arguments from both sides which proves it!! - Which is why i cringed once i had pressed the 'enter' button

3) And I think this thread is more about people thinking Madonna is a bitch then the issue of circumcision - true people will make judgements according to their own personal prejudice rather than the facts each time - like gay adoption

4)And yeah Nomi there are people who treat their kids like shit but circumcision is an emotive issue for some people - It's NONI not Nomi!!!

 

[Nonimus]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

You should be!

But since you've obviously been upgraded with Windows XP - I'll forgive you.

 

[Riverrick]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

Is this really about circumcision or about Madonna?

Good question. Seems to be about Madonna.

I would have hope that she would have seen this custom for what it is, though. I don't know why it bothers me that Madonna in particular is choosing this for her child but it sort of does.

 

[Soilwork]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

Eromenos. I resent my parents for letting me be circumsized without my consent.

it's my body... and they didn't even question why part of it was being cut off.

they just let it happen without even a thought.

and it's my right to be pissed.


Oh, and Madonna now claims to be Jewish... much like she claimed to be a lesbian in the early 90s.

next she'll be an alien, I'm guessing.

 

[Riverrick]

Re: Madonna, and a barbaric custom.

But this idea that grown men are resenting their parents' decision to keep or remove a piece of skin is ridiculous.

Think about this Eromenos. They took a piece of your penis off. They went in and just lopped it off. Your penis of all fucking things! And you know that most sensitive part just under the head? Well they took a bunch of that away as well. Its called the frenulum and we no longer even have one.

And to boot, without a foreskin the head of our penis has dried up and lost its sensitivity. Why would you do that to a kid? Its totally fucked up and insane.

And the reason? For cleanliness. Well then pull all of my fingernails off so I can't get dirt under them either. Yea its an emotional issue when you cut a piece of my body off.