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The photos no one showed to Obama

Kojimon

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Why just shown to Obama?

He's not the policeman for the entire world.

Show them to everyone, everywhere.

Let the world decide.
 
Yeah, but it's different when Israel commits mindless violence.They are asserting their right to exist.Also, being the only democracy in the middle east,that makes their genocide ok..Besides,according to prophesy,the Jews must have Israel back before Jeebus can come back to lift the Christians into heaven..So, it takes what it takes..
 
This is blatant ham fisted propaganda that attempts to build a correlation between the actions of the Nazis against the Jews, and of the Israeli Government's actions against the Palestinian population of Gaza.

There are no angels in this long running human tragedy.

The IDF has recently over reacted - yet, again - by swallowing the bait and boarding a relief ship - and killing people who resisted their armed invasion of a ship carrying relief supplies for the hungry people of Gaza.

I gather that the IDF high command has recently been found culpable for this act of outrageous military incompetence.

There is an enormous amount of blame to share round between the warring parties. The Hamas might well consider reversing their charter that threatens to exterminate the state of Israel. This would include the Jewish population of Israel.

The Americans support the Israelis with military equipment and financial subsidies. The Syrians, and the Iranians support, finance and supply Hamas and its military structure.

Hope obliges the international community to keep trying to build bridges of peaceful coexistence that a future generation of Jews and Palestinians might be able to live side by side without one tribe threatening to extermine the other.
 
this is not a current event. it is a post for a propaganda site.

why is there such a strong anti Israeli movement going on right now?

really. These people in the strip and on the west bank have been consistently lobbing missiles and engaging in terrorist activities for years now. They have elected a gov't, Hammas, that has sworn itself to the destruction of Israel.

the fences of the Nazi's were designed to cage the Jews. the Fences of Israel are designed to cage the jews. it is a crime that they now are forced to fence themselves into their own nation to stay safe.

Netanyahu is a mess. he is the worst thing for peace that Israel can do. Israel has made alot of mistakes, especially in alienating Turkey recently with that armada invasion, but that does not equate in the way this thread is implying.

America invaded Iraq for nothing more than the fact that the guy in charge said bad things about us for a few years after we kicked his ass in the first gulf war.

yet we expect them to act differently. I don't know where you are, but imagine your neighboring nation lobbing a thousand missiles a year at you over the border.

Would you encourage your nation to play nice?

if it happened in america and Mexico was bombing Texas, the civilian polulation would invade mexico and burn the entire nation. you can count on it. texans would not put up with what we are expecting israel to.

Would New England put up with nova scotia sending suicide bombers into boston or bangor?

fuck no!

we would make our own nuke and turn nova scotia into a sea of glass.

so lets be honest. some want to hold the israelis responsible for the misery that the palestinians have clearly brought on themselves.
 
Would New England put up with nova scotia sending suicide bombers into boston or bangor?

fuck no!

we would make our own nuke and turn nova scotia into a sea of glass.


The thought makes the head explode.

But in the more likely event that the New Englanders decide to invade Canuckistan, the rest of the provinces will pretend we give up and then launch a war of subversion by feeding everyone in New England Poutine and beaver tails until they can't move and then invade in order to turn the states into a parliamentary democracy.
 
The thought makes the head explode.

But in the more likely event that the New Englanders decide to invade Canuckistan, the rest of the provinces will pretend we give up and then launch a war of subversion by feeding everyone in New England Poutine and beaver tails until they can't move and then invade in order to turn the states into a parliamentary democracy.

HAHA....

well I was making a point. its more likely that nova scotia and new england would join together to form their own nation than they are to start a war...

forgive the uncomfortable supposition! ..|
 
Yeah, but it's different when Israel commits mindless violence.They are asserting their right to exist.Also, being the only democracy in the middle east,that makes their genocide ok..Besides,according to prophesy,the Jews must have Israel back before Jeebus can come back to lift the Christians into heaven..So, it takes what it takes..

what about iraq? ;)

in case anyone is interested in why the whole democracy thing matters, statistically, democracies virtually never attack each other.

that statistic will probably not work out in the mid east
 
what about iraq? ;)

in case anyone is interested in why the whole democracy thing matters, statistically, democracies virtually never attack each other.

that statistic will probably not work out in the mid east

What about Iraq? Didn't they have a democracy of sorts back in the 1950's that was overthrown by the U.S and Britain to install the Shah?
 
nooooo

lol

they have one now

I think your mistaken..The governement of Iran was overthrown in 1953 by U.S and British operatives after Mosadawhatshisname nationalized his countries oil interests.

They installed the pro western puppet, the Shah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état

This is also covered extensively in the book,''All The Shah's Men.Subtitled: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle Eastern Terror."

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/All-Shahs-Men-American-Middle/dp/0471265179"]Amazon.com: All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror (9780471265177): Stephen Kinzer: Books[/ame]

You should read it and tell me about democracy in Iran..
 
you are confusing Iran and Iraq.... reread the posts....

Iran is a theocracy

Iraq is an american installed democracy
 
well I was making a point. its more likely that nova scotia and new england would join together to form their own nation than they are to start a war...

If you knew Canada really well, you'd understand that New England really is just the flip side of Upper and Lower Canada. Besides the early settlers coming up from the New England States, we just actually all seem to behave the same in many respects.

In fact, there are many interactive organizations in New England and Ontario, Quebec and the atlantic provinces and many of us have family in New England.

Every year by the way, we come to Stockbridge for at least one visit and to Shelbourne Farms in Vermont for a visit as well. Every two years we get to Boston.

Watch out for us!

Whenever you get tired of the midwest, California and the south, you're always welcome to come back to us.
 
If New England married Nova Scotia, we all know nova scotia would be the bottom in the relationship:p
 
Why are they doing this to the Gazans? Why do we continue to support Israel?

The Gazans want to be a separate nation, right? Israel's honoring that by marking the border clearly.

I try to keep up with events in the news, but they never give us the whole story.

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/the-photos-no-one-showed-to-obama/

http://www.bidstrup.com/

Have they learned nothing from the holocaust?

Yes -- they learned to keep the people who want to kill them from reaching them.
 
The Gazans want to be a separate nation, right? Israel's honoring that by marking the border clearly.

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

in case anyone is interested in why the whole democracy thing matters, statistically, democracies virtually never attack each other.

that statistic will probably not work out in the mid east

Sounds to me like we shouldn't promote democracy there so that the Democratic Peace Theory still (sort of) holds water. ;)

To the original poster: Yeah, Israel has ghetto-ized the Palestinians, especially the Gazans, in a manner not-too-dissimilar from what was done to the Jewish people right before they started getting hauled off to concentration camps by the trainload. What else isn't new? You honestly thing President Obama, or President Bush before him, didn't know about that wall? It's been a major issue. He knows about it, I assure you. If you want to argue about the merits of our support for Israel, then fine. But starting it off with the assumption you know more about the issue than the government when you know so little about it you're unaware that that wall has been a source of major controversy is a clear sign of how little you know about it.

In regard to the merits of our support, it's good geopolitics. Lord knows they're a more reliable ally than we'll ever get President Karzai or his successors, or the Iraqis, or the House of Saud, to be. As the most powerful nation in the world militarily and economically, and a nation with a long history of meddling in others' internal affairs, we (the US) are a lightning rod of hate around the world. Throwing away allies as reliable and capable as Israel would be just plain stupid and more than a little naive.
 
There's a few problems when it comes to the discussion of Israel.

1.) Thanks to the 24/7 media pundits in the USA, the very nature of debate is starting to die. The idea of being able to sit down with someone who shares different views than you, and have a discourse with them in which facts and opinions are shared freely and with respect, is disappearing.

Not just in the USA, but elsewhere, and I include Canada in that. Civilized debate is under a serious threat, and yet, no one seems to mind.

2.) Also, thanks to 24/7 media pundits, if you so much as say a word against Israel, you automatically support their destruction. This is as untrue as saying being against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan mean you do not support our troops.

The fact of the matter is, saying something against Israel is not endorsing their destruction. So, now that I've said my piece on that, let's get to the heart of the matter.

Israel is defending themselves from a threat most of the world cannot imagine, I will not begrudge that fact. However, on the reverse, we cannot simply allow carte blance for Israel's actions.

There's the old logical problem that asks how a person decides to become a terrorist, or a suicide bomber, or what have you. Logical following suggests that the status of that person's life, say their living conditions, and the living conditions of their family and friends is often a spurring motive for these people.

There are also others who would suggest that things as simple as religious ideology or political beliefs also spur these people on. I'm sure for some, that is true, but so is the above example for others.

The conditions in the West Bank are deplorable, I'm sure no one can dispute that. As such, the entire region is a breeding ground of discontent and anger; and eventually, that anger will find itself directed physically on Israel.

Now, Israel is not completely to blame. Groups like Hamas that spur citizens of the West Bank and Gaza into taking action are also at fault.

But the problem is that both sides have crossed the line. Both sides have escalated things to the point where the words War Crimes don't even begin to cover what is going on in that part of the world.

We also need to acknowledge a few essential truths:

After the Six-Days War, Israel occupied the areas that they are now currently in. Despite some international pressure, Israel has held onto the West Bank and Gaza, and pushed for settlement in the areas, despite not technically being a part of Israel.

The annexation of territory from one country to another is a rarity in modern times; with exception of course of annexations that took place during WWII by Germany, the USSR, and other nations at the time. To the best of my knowledge, the West Bank and Gaza have never officially been annexed, and thanks to the Oslo Accords; Israel was supposed to withdraw from some of these areas.

Effectively, Israel is breaking international law by occupying these areas in contradiction of international agreements, and furthermore by continuing to mass settlements in the area.

On the other hand, the peace process has also been hampered by groups like Hamas standing by their idea that Israel should be destroyed and does not have a right to exist.

This, of course, is false. Israel does have a right to exist, much in the same way that Canada or Argentina have a right to exist as countries.

By refusing to accept nothing less than the complete destruction of Israel, radical Palestinian groups are only further escalating tensions and violence between Israel and themselves.

So, the truths we need to realize:

Israel's own actions help contribute to violence by their refusal to stop occupying the West Bank and Gaza; but Hamas and other radical Palestinian groups contribute to the problem by refusing to accept the end of occupation in those areas as a victory for Palestinians.

The other universal truth:

If we want to see peace in the Middle East, we must put as much pressure on Israel as we do on radical groups like Hamas. Also, if we pursue prosecution against Palestinian groups for attacks on Israel; we must also examine whether the treatment given to those in the West Bank and Gaza mean that prosecution must also fall on those responsible in Israel.

Both sides have fault in this issue, to say otherwise is simply wrong. As such, when the time comes to cast judgment, both sides will have to face their judge and jury and accept the outcome that comes from the actions they took.


That's more or less my argument, but I feel like I need to clarify a few things before I get quoted out of context.

1.) Israel has a right to exist, and a right to defend themselves from radicals that seek their destruction, BUT...

2.) Israel has to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza and other territories that they do not have a legal right to call part of Israel, and return to borders as they were before the Six-Day War.

3.) Both parties share equal responsibility for the escalating violence in the Middle East; as Hamas pushes Israel, and Israel cracks down, only more violence results from it. Violence begets violence, if you will.

I think that about covers it...I expect to be eviscerated by fellow JUBers in the coming posts, though...
 
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