the religion forum

[Andreus]

It still boils down to group dynamics. If nobody want to listen to what you have to say, what can you do about it? You either have to turn them around or you have to find another audience.

I can see your frustration, but just because the forum you helped start isn't going in the direction you had hoped for doesn't mean it should be shut down. That certainly won't achieve your original intent.

i dont want an audience

i dont want direction

i could care less if people hear me and i certainly dont want to take peoples beliefs from them or turn them around in any way

i want one thing

respect

i am not interested in people listening to anything, or what their ideas are or aren't. if you took the time to get to know me you would figure that out. I am just not interested in telling people what to think.

I just want the people at JUB, not just the muslims, but all of them, to have a safe place to express important spirtual issues and facets of their lives without being told their faith is built on lies and deceptions.

what i am interested in is people not intimidating the muslim members out of participating in the only forum they are supposed to be safe in

that is just unnaceptable

 

[Kurn]

Actually the main problem is one of discursive maturity.

 

[Sausy]

I don't know what the answer is...I wouldn't pull the forum,it does serve a valuable purpose.But making grand generalities and presuppositions about other faiths isn't productive and doesn't promote understanding or add enlightenment.I have no problem with criticism and questioning,but respect and sensitivity to the vast majority of those who practice the faith criticized,be it christian,Islam,Judaism,Hinduism..whatever faith is very important.It is wrong to equate all Muslims as fanatics and terrorist supporters as it is calling all Christians fundamentalist
extremists,oppressive ,bigoted and intolerant zealots.

I myself would not conduct myself in a hateful fashion.wE're trying to get an understanding and appreciation for each other,and it is great when we can find common agreement or understanding,and conduct our disagreements with civility and respect.

 

[1st love ron]

A religion forum on a gay message board is an oxymoron to me because
religion is not a friend of the gay person at all. All I hear is hate 'n hell from religious people regarding gays.

 

[trawler69]

Any religious forum is going to cause arguements and hurt because of the nature of some of the people practising those religions. Despite the fact that most religions advocate tolerance, this is often overlooked as people try to convince others that their religion is the correct one. This is often done by slating other religions. Then the war begins.

I did go in there for a short period and it just hurt to see all those people allowing their brains to be fucked up by their religions and the saddest thing was they were often "happy" to see their sexuality as a personal failure.

I don't necessarily think it should be closed but I do think it should have a large health warning. I for one will not be returning, religion often brings out the worst in people and I prefer to see the best. Compare it with the coming out forum and you will see what I mean.

 

[ronnie_h]

Flaming is the only fun I can see in bothering with religion..

 

[Paws]

Rename it the "cult forum".

 

[Marbas]

No, the 'Religion AND Spirituality' forum is not 'useless', nor is it 'a waste of time', in my opinion.

However, as I posted in your other complaint thread in R&S:

Personally, I've never really understood why R&S was designated as a 'no flame zone' in the first place; it seems to me that 'religious' and/or 'spiritual' beliefs deserve no more (or less) respect than political beliefs (or any other beliefs for that matter).

But that's probably just me; my personal 'faith' (for want of a better term) is strong enough to withstand any mere external criticism or ridicule and, thus far, I've managed to not allow anything posted here to bother me in the slightest.

At the risk of repeating myself (yet again); I have long held the view that the 'sacred' of one religion is the 'satanic' of another (metaphorically speaking), so there will always be conflicts of belief between followers of different religions and/or spiritual paths.

For example, if a person holds a particular book (or collection of books) to be sacred, divinely inspired, or the 'word of god', then it is impossible for that person to view the various 'sacred texts' of all the other book-based religions with the same degree of respect. Likewise, the prophet(s) of other religions will be tend viewed as misguided, deluded, or liars.

If the R&S forum is intended for people to discuss their various, differing beliefs, then disagreements will naturally occur and hopefull will lead to a greater degree of understanding for all involved.

However, if the forum is intended only for people to proclaim their own version of spiritual truth without any challenge or disagreement then, in a sense, it would become a 'useless', 'waste of time'.

 

[khushibagh]

I find the idea of a no flame religion forum deeply disturbing. As it is, religious people seem to think that they have a God given right to spout any hateful outlandish opinion they want free of criticism. Religion is accorded way to much deference in society as it is.

 

[TaigaStar]

I don't think Religion & Spirituality is a useless part of the forum. I don't go in there nearly as often as I could, but I've had decent conversations in there. I'm in agreement with Andreus that referring to another religion's beliefs are "wrong" or "mislead" compared to your own, personal beliefs is clearly the inappropriate thing to do. Maybe the mods should write up a list of things maybe to not say to prevent a designated "No-Flame Zone" into becoming the opposite?

 

[eddielee]

I haven't been to the religion forum in a long time. I've always envisioned the religion forum as a place that can be helpful. You can talk to people of the same faith and share things. The flaw in the forum has to do with people not respecting each other's beliefs. Most people can disagree and still respect each other's beliefs. Sometimes people do flame on that forum and say some very nasty things. It's best not to feed the beast and get wrapped up in an argument with a flamer. In spite of any flaws the forum has, it's still a valuable forum that has helped people.

 

[RationalLunacy]

So.....are you saying that the Religion Forum should go to Hell?

 

[Marbas]

So.....are you saying that the Religion Forum should go to Hell?

Well at least Hell isn't a 'no flame zone'.

 

[1st love ron]

They are called extremists, I really wish people wouldn't let these type of people describe a religion for them. .

If only. Take Christianity which is mainstream and surely they don't preach tolerance of the gay people. The exceptions are Liberal sects like Unitarians (or is it Univeralists?).

 

[kallipolis]

My thoughts are to maintain the forum as it presently functions. For the most part it works very well. To imagine that we can create an artificial zone that precludes open discussion on religious and spiritual matters, is to divorce our self from the real world. Each of us represents a unique character that should be respected by all, even when we occasionally lose sight of our own personal spiritual or religious beliefs and practices through failing to reply with respect for our self and the person with whom we are discussing.

The hyper sensitive person should attempt to come to terms with the sort of criticism he may face outside this discussion board. We learn through experience that character building is created through the opposing forces of life.

I never allow my emotions to be affected by immature postings. I believe we should all attempt to grow a thicker skin, in anticipation of life doling out its lessons in a manner that might well oblige us to don a suit of armour. Paul of Tarsus asks us to put on the armour of faith, and I believe this is advice that needs to be taken seriously by all who profess a religious, spiritual or philosophical approach to living their life, and wish to utilise this forum in order to learn more of life's lessons.

 

[kallipolis]

Traditional Christianity encourages respect for all human life, including homosexuals.

We should not permit our ignorance and prejudices to blind us to the realities that are not always found in the likes of Fred Phelps and Co. These people are not the example by which we should judge mainstream Christianity.

I appreciate our American friends are particularly sensitive on this issue, as a result of the puritanical nature of some of the more bizarre manifestations of the Christian religion.

 

[Sausy]

If only. Take Christianity which is mainstream and surely they don't preach tolerance of the gay people. The exceptions are Liberal sects like Unitarians (or is it Univeralists?).

Ever hear of the Nationalwouldare tolerant and loving Council of Churches?It's an extreme reaction to believe the only decent Christians are Unitarian-Universalists(full name of the branch)and a couple of others.The fundamentalists are mostly an intolerant lot,and I don't see them as really Christian.I don't like the authoritarianism of my Catholic Church....but even there,good Christians can be readily found.Your version of a Christian is a caricature and does not represent the millions of Americans who live their faith in the way Jesus meant it to be lived.Gery gave a very good perspective right above you.The same with Judaism,Islam....there are extremists and bigots in every religion that give it a bad name,but they don't represent true faith,but a corruption and perversion of faith into fear and authoritarianism.But people of faith actually just live their faith and don't impose themselves as the only way.

 

[Andreus]

a muslim hearing Muhammed called a liar over and over again is like a muslim calling the virgin mary a whore over and over again to catholics.

we can mutter on and on about sensitivity and freedom of thought, but at the end of the day it promotes nothing but dissention. Those types of comments are only made to separate people and cause arguements. I have no problem with hearing others beliefs, but if the only way you can express your beliefs is to intentionally antagonize someone else for theirs, then you are a flame troll and you have no business being in the no flame zone.

this is not a complex issue and that is the reality of the situation. Just as Iranians scream death to america knowing what it incites in americans, so does calling mohamed delusional, and factually a liar.

this isnt about personal expression, and no matter how you wrap it up in that premise it simply wont ever be that.

it is about respect.

Muslims go to great lengths to not treat christians in the west this way, and its about time the respect was returned. Gay muslims need a place to work out the extremely complex issues involved in their faith as gay men, and if intentionally driving them away is the game plan, then let me know.

the door wont hit me on the ass on my way out.

 

[luminum]

I think it's important because a lot fo new users have questions about how to reconcile their faith to their orientation. That's important and happens frequently enough that it would overload the hot topics forum.

I say it's worth it.

 

[Kurn]

Life was a mystery to early "us."
It still is, but in different ways.
So you can always make your own "religious" statement.
If it is something important that you would be saying, should such a statement conform to what others say?