The "Right" to be Fat

[TX-Beau]

The Soda law is utterly stupid. As has been said, it's jut a politician's gambit that adds inconvenience and completely ignores the issues, the solutions, and common sense.

The only way to get people to live healthier, is to convince them to do so. How you do that is going to depend on context, but penalizing especially legally will just incur resentment and probably blizzards of lawsuits.

That said there are ways in which the government can help. As i get older, I've been gradually eating healthier, going to restaurants that serve healthier foods, and my food costs have gone up. I don't eat more of the healthier stuff, in fact I eat less than I used to, nevertheless, the healthy option is a lot more expensive than the big mac and fries.

It's hard to find food in the grocery store that hasn't been engineered, chemically de-bugged, dyed, infused with salt/sugar/oil, soaked in preservatives etc, food without the above is always, always, always more expensive.

We are penalizing healthy choices, is it any wonder people who have little money eat badly, they can't afford my diet.

It's also interesting that all those restaurants I patronize that have no deep fat fryers and the food coming out of my back yard garden actually tastes better than the junk, and it's not plastic food.

Surely everyone has a right to affordable home cooking with real food that actually tastes good just like Great Grandma used to make.

Why don't we start there?

Ain't no soda law gonna fix that.

 

[TX-Beau]

I also think that part of the problem is that people have forgotten how to cook. I mean really Cook, like my Grandma could. Take completely raw ingredients and turn live chickens into Chicken Pot pie that didn't come out of a box.

 

[Kulindahr]

You are all exaggerating the extent to which being over weight increases medical risk. Some, yes, but I have never heard of an insurance company denying coverage for overweight. Perhaps in the extreme range. Other conditions involve more risk, which may or may not be accompanied with overweight: hypertension, diabetes, coronary heart disease, and many more. The additional risk from overweight does not justify the loss of freedom.

So you consider a re-adjustment in the direction of a more free market to be a loss of freedom? Because all that's really necessary is to end the subsidies for corn syrup.

 

[Kulindahr]

It's just funny to me that, in these scenarios, it's always the OTHER guy that has the problems while our own behaviors we always consider to be above reproach.

My behavior is far less than sterling -- but I'm working on it. My latest problem is that I'm getting a nutrient I need from a drink, but the drink hands me an extra 300-ish calories a day... so I need to either cut something out or find another source (one that doesn't involve gagging on some giant pill).

 

[chance1]

The Soda law is utterly stupid. As has been said, it's jut a politician's gambit that adds inconvenience and completely ignores the issues, the solutions, and common sense.

The only way to get people to live healthier, is to convince them to do so. How you do that is going to depend on context, but penalizing especially legally will just incur resentment and probably blizzards of lawsuits.

That said there are ways in which the government can help. As i get older, I've been gradually eating healthier, going to restaurants that serve healthier foods, and my food costs have gone up. I don't eat more of the healthier stuff, in fact I eat less than I used to, nevertheless, the healthy option is a lot more expensive than the big mac and fries.

It's hard to find food in the grocery store that hasn't been engineered, chemically de-bugged, dyed, infused with salt/sugar/oil, soaked in preservatives etc, food without the above is always, always, always more expensive.

We are penalizing healthy choices, is it any wonder people who have little money eat badly, they can't afford my diet.

It's also interesting that all those restaurants I patronize that have no deep fat fryers and the food coming out of my back yard garden actually tastes better than the junk, and it's not plastic food.

Surely everyone has a right to affordable home cooking with real food that actually tastes good just like Great Grandma used to make.

Why don't we start there?

Ain't no soda law gonna fix that.

the issue is that kids are obese

the issue is that parents are clearly not making sure their kids make better choices

the issue is that less sugar is better than more sugar

it'd be grand if mom/dad cooked healthier meals for their kids
it'd be grand if parents taught their kids that 32 oz. of soda is 2x as much as they should have and they should drink water instead
it'd be grand if businesses policed themselves and instead of upselling the 32 oz. soda at "only" 25 cents more than the 16 oz. one

this law will help and it is common sense - kids won't be able to buy the way too big soda

it's not perfect and it's not the solution

but while we're creating the solution, this will help and is much better than doing nothing

kudos to Bloomberg for having the balls and the conviction

 

[Kulindahr]

My doctor recently commented that being overweight, not even to the point of being obese, can aggravate existing arthritis, especially impact trauma arthritis.

 

[TX-Beau]

the issue is that kids are obese

the issue is that parents are clearly not making sure their kids make better choices

the issue is that less sugar is better than more sugar

it'd be grand if mom/dad cooked healthier meals for their kids
it'd be grand if parents taught their kids that 32 oz. of soda is 2x as much as they should have and they should drink water instead
it'd be grand if businesses policed themselves and instead of upselling the 32 oz. soda at "only" 25 cents more than the 16 oz. one

this law will help and it is common sense - kids won't be able to buy the way too big soda

it's not perfect and it's not the solution

but while we're creating the solution, this will help and is much better than doing nothing

kudos to Bloomberg for having the balls and the conviction

The ISSUE is that PEOPLE are obese. Bad parenting isn't going to be fixed by stupid soda laws. Bloomberg is looking to have his ass kissed, he will reap the law suit, because his dog and pony show is ridiculous.

I thought you weren't a proponent of the nanny state? Guess i was wrong about that.

His law will do absolutely nothing to reduce the soda intake, and jabbering idiot can figure out that you just have to buy two smaller ones.....

...to say nothing of unlimited refills at the Burger King...

Quick Chance! Go ban that too!

 

[Stardreamer]

You are not providing topical evidence to support your reasoning here. A novel does not directly correlate to the obesity epidemic this country is facing. Nor have you addressed the points I have made. It's not just one restaurant, it's the general food supply that is federally subsidized and unregulated that causes people to get fat. Choice is already stifled and limited for a person to decide on food options. Every fast food chain promotes and sells food that is slowly killing Americans. When the same food systems are exported (McDonalds for example) to other nations, that nation suddenly sees a rise in obesity.

So you quit subsidizing it, encourage consumer education and promote programs/subsidies that offer MORE choices. But don't start dictating peoples lives.

 

[JayQueer]

the issue is that kids are obese

the issue is that parents are clearly not making sure their kids make better choices

the issue is that less sugar is better than more sugar

it'd be grand if mom/dad cooked healthier meals for their kids
it'd be grand if parents taught their kids that 32 oz. of soda is 2x as much as they should have and they should drink water instead
it'd be grand if businesses policed themselves and instead of upselling the 32 oz. soda at "only" 25 cents more than the 16 oz. one

Agreed.

this law will help and it is common sense - kids won't be able to buy the way too big soda

it's not perfect and it's not the solution

but while we're creating the solution, this will help and is much better than doing nothing

kudos to Bloomberg for having the balls and the conviction

This is where I DISAGREE

You can't simply ban something because people who choose to consume it in excess get harmful health effects. Why, then, is the sale of cigarettes and alcohol still legal??

It is a limitation on free speech and freedom of expression.

It is big government at it's worst.

Remember -- the same argument can be used by anti-gay people to justify banning homosexual male behavior. Because gay men in the U.S. are disproportionately affected by HIV and AIDS, they could easily make an argument to make male-on-male consensual sodomy illegal.

 

[TX-Beau]

...You can't simply ban something because people who choose to consume it in excess get harmful health effects. Why, then, is the sale of cigarettes and alcohol still legal??...

…It can’t be...

(Honestly I turn my back for one...)

Well, It seems someone has changed the rules around here, not only has Jayqueer contributed to an actual conversation, it appears to be an actual opinion, an original opinion, and – heaven forfend, I AGREE WITH HIM!!!

Oh Lordy Lucifer is figure skatin’ in hell!!!!!

 

[Kulindahr]

Remember -- the same argument can be used by anti-gay people to justify banning homosexual male behavior. Because gay men in the U.S. are disproportionately affected by HIV and AIDS, they could easily make an argument to make male-on-male consensual sodomy illegal.

More or less, yes. The "it's bad for you" argument can be used to restrict nearly anything.

 

[TX-Beau]

Can and has been, not to mention it makes hash with individual liberties AND the concept of personal responsibility and one and the same time.

Honestly I can't think of a more apropos example of "Nanny State," than a state that legally requires you to eat your vegetables. Most communists never got that far left.

 

[chance1]

yeah - denying the less educated their double/triple size sodas is quite the attack on personal freedom

 

[TX-Beau]

It certainly is, I'm so glad you understand.

 

[Rolyo85]

I find this whole thing more than a little retarded, but I am thoroughly in love with the listing of calories. I think it would have great effect long term.

 

[palbert]

Be as fat as you want. Just don't ask me to contribute to your medical bills.

 

[Stardreamer]

Just my honest opinion, when you start using government to micro-manage the size of drink cups and people's choices you have taken it too far. As I said before, the focus should be addressing the parts of the problem that doesn't involve trying to dictate people's lives such as ending the sugar subsidies, providing more public education and incentives to encourage the market to provide more economical healthy choices. All are more effective and don't involve taking people's choices away from them.

 

[TX-Beau]

Be as fat as you want. Just don't ask me to contribute to your medical bills.

Excess consumption of red meat causes colon cancer. Eat as much as you want. Just don't ask me to contribute to your medical bills.

BTW that should be "...Just don't ask me to contribute to PAYING your medical bills..."

Since there is no single payer here, we all pay out the ass for our own medical coverage - those of us who have it - by that argument we should stop people from driving cars, it's unhealthy to so do, we should stop people from associating with other people, you expose yourself to pathogens that way - and hell I'M NOT paying for someone who recklessly puts himself in the way of pathogens, that's a CHOICE he made. Fuck him.

Fuck all of them, I'm just out for me, the government should ban anyone who does anything that costs ME MONEY! That's what government is for, to stop people from doing things I think are stupid. Fuck humanity, my checkbook might be impacted.

Fuck you too for reading this, you're straining your eyes and I'm NOT paying for your glasses since you were too stupid to know that eye strain comes from stupidly peering at computer screens. Not to mention the carpel tunnel you obviously are getting, I'm not paying for that either.

...yeah right...

 

[TX-Beau]

But isn't public education on this matter interfering in the lives of people? Isn't public education simply more government? Why the inconsistency on the part of "small government" advocates? I think this cup law is outright silly and misguided... also it won't solve anything. But... I think the focus should be on more government programs and outreach. This is a public health emergency and needs to be treated as one.

There is a huge fucking difference between public, government funded education drives and using the law to compel "right thinking."

 

[Stardreamer]

But isn't public education on this matter interfering in the lives of people? Isn't public education simply more government? Why the inconsistency on the part of "small government" advocates? I think this cup law is outright silly and misguided... also it won't solve anything. But... I think the focus should be on more government programs and outreach. This is a public health emergency and needs to be treated as one.

No as you are not forcing choices on or taking choices away from people. Public education such as requiring calorie information on product labels and menus is indeed more government but it is not excessively intrusive government and it serves the public good without restricting personal freedom. Small government does not equal no government.