On Topic Discussion The suicide cycle on JUB

[m1thousand]

I have talked about feeling suicidal and that I felt I would eventually kill myself (after my mom dies). I was told that I shouldnt talk about suicide in Hot Topics because it could trigger someone else who might being feeling suicidal.

I have tried to change my way of thinking because when I really think about it, I wonder if I really could go through with it. Ironically, the thought of suicide was the thing that kept me living.

I truly believe that someone who really is suicidal would not go onto a message board and talk about it because from the multiple attempts I have made, I never told anyone prior to the attempts and I was very secretive about doing so.

But I have had this 'suicidal ideation' since 1979 and I might have asked for advise about it but I havent asked for advice here because of the reason mentioned.

I have tried to think about it differently recently. I have been working out since Sept 4th, losing weight, and I havent been depressed since then. I did have one day when I really wanted to throw in the towel but I talked myself out of not doing that.

I dont think anything has changed with the suicide rate. It will probably stay the same unless things like being gay is more accepted in our society (among other reasons) but it certainly is better than when I was a youth. Maybe others got the same message about posting suicide threads in Hot Topics.

 

[Sausy]

My mom had clinical depression and sister had severe postpartum depression... both talked of killing themselves. My mother tried twice at least, my sister would have tried had my other sister not been around. Tyler may have not felt like discussing it but oftentimes suicidal people do talk about ending their lives. Here of course on the internet we just can't know offhand who's seriously considering suicide or who's crying out for help or getting kicks just manipulating everything. But to say that if someone really wanted to commit suicide, they would not talk about it earlier is really making an assumption of dubious merit.

 

[kallipolis]

But to say that if someone really wanted to commit suicide, they would not talk about it earlier is really making an assumption of dubious merit.

Those who have suggested otherwise, are rather prone to dramatic utterances that speak more of their self induced blindness, than reality....your observation is well noted as reality.

 

[Sausy]

My mom had clinical depression and sister had severe postpartum depression... both talked of killing themselves. My mother tried twice at least, my sister would have tried had my other sister not been around. Tyler may have not felt like discussing it but oftentimes suicidal people do talk about ending their lives. Here of course on the internet we just can't know offhand who's seriously considering suicide or who's crying out for help or getting kicks just manipulating everything. But to say that if someone really wanted to commit suicide, they would not talk about it earlier is really making an assumption of dubious merit.

I did see what m1000 wrote, and had a different experience with my mom and sister. It just seems like it would be more likely that a suicidal person would at some point get it out that's what they're considering. Most times someone is reaching out for help, and may not truly want to die when they are open about it like here on the boards, just wanting to find connection with someone who can reach them.

 

[Sausy]

Those who have suggested otherwise, are rather prone to dramatic utterances that speak more of their self induced blindness, than reality....your observation is well noted as reality.

I'm also reading m1000's point that he never discussed it with anyone.. it's just very complicated situation, it varies among people individually.

 

[kallipolis]

I'm also reading m1000's point that he never discussed it with anyone.. it's just very complicated situation, it varies among people individually.

Exactly...there is no hard, and fast method of dealing with potential suicides leaving us to offer compassionate concern for the person who is drifting through a difficult period....nevertheless, I am of the opinion that treating each case seriously should not encourage us to be too cynical for, I prefer to offer assistance even supposing that the person is merely suffering a case of self inflicted blues.

 

[kallipolis]

I have talked about feeling suicidal and that I felt I would eventually kill myself

Poor self esteem is no justification for prematurely ending your life despite your often expressed views on the quality of your life apparently not up to your expectation; it should be noted that you are assisting not a few here dealing with their challenges with their life's misfortunes.....and I am expecting you to hang around here for considerably more time that your influence may continue to assist those who benefit from your well received thoughts on your life's experiences.

 

[m1thousand]

Sausy,
Thanks for using my internet name (M1000) even though I wasn't able to get the name for here.

Kallipolis,
Thanks for the comment. I wasn't suicidal because of my self esteem (it did play a part), but because I have been depressed since 1979. I just want to clarify that.

 

[kallipolis]

Kallipolis,
Thanks for the comment. I wasn't suicidal because of my self esteem (it did play a part), but because I have been depressed since 1979. I just want to clarify that.

Noted, with thanks...

 

[Rolyo85]

OMG guys, after I googled "Tyler Clementi", I got sick in the stomache because of the leniency of the punishment on that Dharun Ravi guy and Molly Wei. Urgh, I really hope he got guilt-stricken for the rest of his life, coz no one deserves to be treated like a second-class citizen!

Um, first of all this has nothing to do with being treated as a second class citizen. Second, if one actually reads a detailed account of the events that led to Tyler's suicide, it's clear Rhavi was nowhere near the sole reason for it. Even people who responded to his thread on JUB had the impression that he was past that incident. What Rhavi did was awful but I'm not ok with all the calls for stoning that the knee-jerk reflex invoked.

On topic: I don't agree with sixthson. In fact, I believe online calls for help can be more helpful for two reasons. First, because behind the safety of your computer, you can open up far more and reveal things you wouldn't say in person. Second, because when you give advice online, you have the luxury to structure your response and calculate your wording in a way that real life conversation doesn't allow.

 

[medic1]

as i have posted,when my fella was killed in Afghanistan,i did not know where to turn my head was so fucked.
I came across JUB by accident,i explained as best as i could my thoughts and my pure pain.
I had reached the stage of opening 2 vials of Diamorphine and drawing them up.

I felt i could not talk to anyone i knew,because of my job.I also felt The Samaritans were out of the loop,only because i am Samaritan trained,and the thought of speaking to someone that i may have trained with put me off.
JUB,was a main contributing factor to my survival,the support from strangers means more than many of you seem to realise.

 

[maxpowr9]

I know on quite a few sites, if there are any murder/suicide threats, they take them very seriously and a mod will get the IP address and report it to the local police. I'm guessing a similar system is in place here.

As for the laws with suicide, the problem is, suicide is self-inflected [euthanasia is a whole other beast] and therefore, involuntary manslaughter is the highest charge a "bully" can receive.

I have dealt with my own suicidal thoughts when I was a teen, counseled others through it and even witnessed a suicide before. Each "attempt" is very different and there is no one-size-fits-all solution to the problem. Especially as a teen, the biggest problem is all the chemical and hormonal changes going on in the body which only makes it worse.

Especially online, it can be very difficult to know if someone is just being an attention seeker or has a serious issue; again, they should be treated the same regardless by the mods. Even IRL, I had a friend who was one of those: "attention seekers". I have joked about it on here before by saying: "nothing says 'I love you' like a suicide threat." The first couple of times I took it seriously, but by the sixth time in the same number of years, I just stopped caring because it is just far too emotionally draining to put up with a friend like that. I hope he finds the help he needs but we all have limits in emotional output.

 

[kallipolis]

^Medic's post is evidence that confirms my contention that sympathy, understanding, compassionate responses can help, even contribute to the healing of another human being labouring under depression, and misery created by the trials, and tribulations of life.

 

[m1thousand]

For the record, telling a depressed person that they should go for a walk or do something they enjoy shows that you don't understand depression and how dark it can be.

 

[G-Lexington]

It's not common that I run into it, but yes, telling a severely depressed person to "look on the bright side" is akin to telling a guy with two broken legs to "walk it off".

Lex

 

[G-Lexington]

It seems the teens can teach the adults a few things about common curtesy.

It's "courtesy", you fuck stick.

Lex

 

[maxpowr9]

For the record, telling a depressed person that they should go for a walk or do something they enjoy shows that you don't understand depression and how dark it can be.

Only second to: "I know how you feel".

 

[Rolyo85]

Hopefully less people are killing themselves. JUB has had less traffic since I first joined and it's because the atmosphere here is so toxic and negative. I can't even make a post without being attacked, it's rubbish.

Lex is right about the younger people going to EC, that forum is friendly and welcoming. It's fun to chat with people there and not be put down and called names. It seems the teens can teach the adults a few things about common courtesy.

Yeah my impression of EC was of a group chat - people spam like it's going out of fashion and nobody actually reads anything others post.

 

[eastofeden]

I have to say I don't remember ever seeing a suicide thread here at JUB. I might block them out though...It is maybe the most difficult subject for me to address. In all the years I have spent on the Internet...the one time I addressed someone who was thinking about suicide was the single hardest post I have ever made.

 

[medic1]

I disagree in the strongest terms that desperation appeals in Hot Topics are mostly manipulative games. I've spoken by phone with fellow members who were at their wit's end. I've met individuals in person, maintained PMs or email, and correspondence with these men.

Although I do believe traffic in the 20-30 age group is likely to have decreased this year (from the posting evidence), that is a supposition only. Still I wonder if the suicidal tendency in post-adolescent gays might not actually be decreasing. Demographics wouldn't mean anything currently, but watching them from 2010 forward should support or refute my speculation.

As for the effect JUB has had, to my direct knowledge, there have been four men whom I have known here that have turned around their lives, and help from JUB was a part of that turnaround. I can't go so far as to say that we saved their lives, but if those four were to speak, I suspect a few of them might say exactly that.

To Lex's point, there would be GIFs of indifference, or maybe just more random Glee GIFs that spam a thread in selfish revelry, but there would yet be those that care. Because I wake too early, I have often been online in the wee hours when these posts appear, as people often sink at that time.

Interestingly, not a single mod or admin has posted any comment about what actually is seen in traffic of this sort -- whether it has recurred at the same levels as before the sticky, or changed. I'm genuinely curious as to whether JUB is still involved to the same degree it once was in these situations, or if they indeed have simply stopped occurring as often.

Deja,as you know i am one of the 4 that you speak about. On several occasions i have posted about JUB "staying my hand".
Which is why my loyalty to this site is so strong,e-mails,letters,PMs and some really decent members who were willing to give of their time and empathy,pulled me from the "brink".
We are at our best when we offer a helping hand to another.