"The Unhoused Community"

[Kahaih]

One wonders what the profile of the typical street dweller in London, or Berlin, or Rome is versus the analog in Seattle, Dallas, or Cincinnati.

Of course, you'd have to compare/consider building codes, and climates.

And, the lack of real health care. People go belly up trying to cover copayments/deductibles.

As well as America's medical/pharmaceutical industry's penchant for turning patients into drug addicts -- not always just for the money, but often just to get them off the list and out of the office.

 

[Kahaih]

And, just for kicks;

Best states for camping: Locations vary from chilly Northwest to sunny Southeast

Factors such as the number of highly-rated campgrounds, access to toilet facilities and park safety were considered in LawnLove’s “2023’s Best States for Camping" list.

www.foxweather.com

California is number 1.

Seems camping/campgrounds is an 8 billion dollar industry in the US.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Of course, you'd have to compare/consider building codes, and climates.

And, the lack of real health care. People go belly up trying to cover copayments/deductibles.

As well as America's medical/pharmaceutical industry's penchant for turning patients into drug addicts -- not always just for the money, but often just to get them off the list and out of the office.

Respectfully, I don't see the drivers the same way. I worked for years at a local health center (volunteer) where the working uninsured were seen for non-emergency care. They paid like $10 a visit and the doctors and nurses donated their time. Pharmacies and programs contributed medicines.

That also assumes the homeless in the American culture are homeless because they had a life event that catapulted them into severe poverty in a bolt, instead of a constant decline. In my experience, the "working poor" who have things fall apart have a complex syndrome that includes rejection of primary education, recreational drug use, juvenile crime, adult crime, subsistence employment, dysfunctional families and weak communities.

And I don't find the system MORE responsible than the patients for drug addiction. We all choose, one sickness at a time, one day at a time, whether to reach for a pill or to be wary of them. Opiate addiction is not new to our society. My grandmother said our neighbor, a lady who was then in her 60's, had been addicted to narcotics following a surgery. But, in fairness, she had been married to a pharmacist and they all drank like fish, so what was one more substance abuse to them. They were rich, too. Easy access is something we recognize should be stopped, but that blame placed, it cannot outweigh the individual's responsibility.

It has been a volleyball for decades to ascribe homelessness to one cause or another without fully addressing the total population and their habits.

My question on the contrasting profiles was more along the lines of a) what percentage of the population are homeless, b) what work history they have, c) what family dynamics are present, d) what relief organization do, e) what is the society's attitude, and f) how long is the typical homeless person homeles.

It would also be informative to know the differences in the definition of homeless.

 

[Rickrock]

I have never heard of street dwellers in Europe, except in times past, like Victorian times. I know that some European countries have government health programs and subsidized housing. Are street people a problem in Europe, but American news programs don't talk about them?

 

[NotHardUp1]

In 2023, HUD estimated there were over 600,000 homeless persons in the US. That includes over 300,000 in shelters.

New Survey Data Provides Demographic Profile of Population Experiencing Homelessness Who Lived in Emergency and Transitional Shelters

The American Community Survey 5-year estimates provides a demographic profile of the population experiencing homelessness who lived in shelters.

www.census.gov

The website below estimates North America to have a homeless population of 1,000,000. Realize this includes Central America.

Greater Change

www.greaterchange.co.uk

The latter site estimates Germany's homeless population to number more than 600,000.

England, according to this site, has over 270,000 homeless, almost half of whom are children.

At least 271,000 people are homeless in England today - Shelter England

Shelter warns of bleak start to 2023 for those without a place to call home

england.shelter.org.uk

The relative total populations of the the US, Germany, and England are (in millions) 333, 84 & 56.

Thus, the quest for believable data and for highly relevant definitions. Let us assume all the numbers are exaggerated for political or advocasy reasons. Even then, you have large populations in all three named countries, but with vastly different laws, cultures, social attitudes, institutions, health and housing policies, and mental health profiles.

Like much of the culture wars, the discussion of homelessness is an endless rabbit warren of opinions, trigger points, half-truths, political attacks, and vague generalizations.

As a child, I was homeless several times due to my mother's lifestyle and her decisions to have four children without marrying, and without a career, or regular employment. We lived precariously, and at times were in flight due to domestic abuse, as well as my mother's criminal past and her aversion to relying on family ties except when she absolutely failed and was forced to swallow her pride and go back. MANY street people never do that.

Once I was of a majority and worked with charities that supported street people, I saw how common this kind of behavior is, less the children usually. They are by no means all the same, but there are patterns of social severance, stubbornness, sloth, crime, substance abuse, and mixed in among some who are severely mentally ill.

But, as the data just cited indicate, it's not an American problem. And it tends to be an urban problem.

 

[peeonme]

The demographics of homelessness have changed over the span of the past 7 or 8 decades:

The old homeless and the new homelessness in historical perspective - PubMed

In the 1950s and 1960s homelessness declined to the point that researchers were predicting its virtual disappearance in the 1970s. Instead, in the 1980s, homelessness increased rapidly and drastically changed in composition. The "old homeless" of the 1950s were mainly old men living in cheap...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The old homeless and the new homelessness in historical perspective"​

"In the 1950s and 1960s homelessness declined to the point that researchers were predicting its virtual disappearance in the 1970s. Instead, in the 1980s, homelessness increased rapidly and drastically changed in composition. The "old homeless" of the 1950s were mainly old men living in cheap hotels on skid rows. The new homeless were much younger, more likely to be minority group members, suffering from greater poverty, and with access to poorer sleeping quarters. In addition, homeless women and families appeared in significant numbers. However, there were also points of similarity, especially high levels of mental illness and substance abuse."

Homelessness Data & Trends

USICH is the only federal agency with the sole mission of preventing and ending homelessness in America. We coordinate with our 19 federal member agencies, state and local governments, and the private sector to create partnerships, implement evidence-based best practices, and use resources in...

www.usich.gov

"
Homelessness has surged and receded throughout the nation’s history, with spikes during the colonial period, pre-industrial era, post-Civil War years, Great Depression, and today.

While there are many drivers of modern-day homelessness, it is largely the result of failed policies; severely underfunded programs that have led to affordable housing shortages; wages that do not keep up with rising rents and housing costs; inadequate safety nets; inequitable access to quality health care (including mental health care), education, and economic opportunity; and mass incarceration. In effect, more than half of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and one crisis away from homelessness.

At the root of these systemic failures is historical and ongoing racism. From slavery and the Indian Removal Act to redlining and mass incarceration, people of color and other historically marginalized groups (such as LGBTQI+ youth) have been denied rights and excluded from opportunities in ways that continue to have negative impacts today."

We can't put the homeless into one category and claim such things against them as them being unwilling to work. High rent, criminal history, the off shoring of jobs, lack of medical care, the breakdown of the family and the failure of our "educational" system all play in to it.

 

[Norri]

The part of the unhoused community I want to address is those who are drug addicted because in my experience they are harder to help. I have done drugs and have know more than a couple of addicts, fortunately knowing I have an addictive personality I was always careful and stayed away from the really addictive stuff. But for those who fall into that hole the problem with bringing them out is that once they get clean the guilt of how many of their loved ones they constantly hurt drives them back into the hole.

It’s true tragedy and you are always wanting to help them more than they want to be helped. All the love and forgiveness only makes them feel worse. You want to give them housing at the cost of them giving up the drugs is, at best, a short term deal.

They don’t want to die but they do want to forget. In another recent thread here the question was asked ‘do you think you’ll go to heaven’ in reading it I thought of an old pal of mine who went thru the addiction/recovery turnstile a few times we were talking once and he called it the baggage of his past it’s always there and there is no escape so I wondered what is his concept of heaven? It’s all well and good if you’ve had a good life and don’t want it to end but what if the thought of more after this crushes you?

Maybe that is where heaven and inequality intersect.

 

[NotHardUp1]

^Addicts are a hard nut to crack no matter where they live. Their first victims are their own families once they run out of money and employment.

But, I've seen lots of people very happy for their friends or loved ones who are getting clean, and respect how much hard work it is to stay clean.

The main change is that trust is greatly damaged, much more than love or respect. Because the theft, lying, and betrayal hit so hard from someone so close, it makes it a different story on how a loved one is treated. Maybe for the addict, that mistrust is a stigma or a stain, but most would also tell you NOT to put them in a situation where they can be tempted to steal.

My youngest brother is now in a successfull rehab program and seems to be getting clean, but he is almost 50, and this will be the first time in his adult life, so he has over three decades of life patterning to change. He's doing well and feels good, and that victory is what counts today. There's no point in predicting what it will be if he ever lives independently again, but you take the good when it comes without being a naysayer, just be pragmatic.

My older sister's surviving daughter has been an addict all her life. My older brother's oldest son has been in and out of rehab and prison. My mother was a drunkard and an addict. My sisters both were addicted to pot. My uncle's wife is yet a drunkard.

It's sad all the wasted opportunities, but people have to be who they are until they are ready to be some other version. Street people just have less entanglements, addiction or no.

 

[Kahaih]

Do they still garnish wages for back child support, credit card debt, back rent/mortgage payments, car payments, utilities, doctor/hospital bills, etc?

That would be a big crimp in any insensitive to find real employment, I would think -- having people ready to pull the rug out from under you.

Do any of you know anything about filing bankruptcy? Is it a long process? Is it too expensive for many everyday people?

 

[peeonme]

Do they still garnish wages for back child support, credit card debt, back rent/mortgage payments, car payments, utilities, doctor/hospital bills, etc?

That would be a big crimp in any insensitive to find real employment, I would think -- having people ready to pull the rug out from under you.

Do any of you know anything about filing bankruptcy? Is it a long process? Is it too expensive for many everyday people?

It takes money to file for bankruptcy, most people are broke when they reach that point. Bill Clinton signed a bill that made it more difficult to file. Child support is probably not eligible to be discharged. Many folks today are flying under the radar to avoid being sued for bills such as back rent, credit cards or medical bills.
The problem with making money in cash is that a person has no income to show when renting a home. Also when retirement comes they have never paid or claim all of their income towards social security, this means little to no benefits in their older years.

 

[NotHardUp1]

And I've personally known men who go unemployed intentionally to avoid paying child support. For those who have children and feel no obligation to their paternity, screw them.

The same for scofflaws who don't pay taxes via receving cash payments. When you don't want to drive on our roads, get police and fire protection, or have a public school system, have social security, or the other thing taxes pay for, feel free to not pay your share and die poor.

 

[peeonme]

Food for thought

 

[Latimer]

Major Supreme Court case could upend California's homelessness policies

Supreme Court to consider whether cities may enforce laws against camping on public property; a decision could change how California addresses homelessness.

www.latimes.com

 

[NotHardUp1]

^ The article is a good read. It's fair in presenting mostly two sides of the debate.

The article doesn't report whether Boise or any othe city trying to enforce the ban on encampments offers shelters or if inadequate, by how many vs. the size of the encampted population there.

The author mentioned a theory exists that California and the West see more homelessness and encampments due to the high cost of housing in the Western US. That conjecture seems to be somewhat fallacious when one sees the cost of housing in Boston, NYC, Raleigh, Miami, and other large cities in the NE, Midwest, & South.

No exploration or mention of other factors, such as work ethic, climate, general regional wealth, public policy, or social attitudes concerning panhandling or even addiction.

The high court is likely to uphold the cities' right to control use of public spaces, including sidewalks, and make some comment about requiring the same to allow squatting in unobtrusive public properties where the camping doesn't abridge other citizens' rights.

Unfortunately, much of this issue is just a sound byte war where homelessness is allegedly outlawed when the real story is that it is not allowed to run over all other citizens' rights and is merely restricted.

That's not cruel, unusual, or unreasonable. Citizens can still want to help the poor, help the unemployed, help the mentally ill, and not want to create a game preserve for vagrants in the business district.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Food for thought

I have seen charity centers seem to operate to provide employment for some of their directors, but it's also hard to tell that from people who took the jobs for good cause but simply got burnout and don't seem to care any more.

At any rate, the point about political football is dead on. Phrasing the problem of homelessness, as well as dismissing its needs, both become the talking points of political groups in election years.

And, honest, unbiased data, is always hard to get.