The World without the US on Climate Change

[Kulindahr]

In other words...Republicans are led by greed and a lack of conscience.... and regulations and responsibility for the environment that we ALL share cut into their profits.

They're great fans of externalizing costs, i.e. making anyone and everyone else pay so they don't have to.

It would be fun to watch them squirm if a tax were levied on the generation of waste heat, which would only be a just tax because it's making them pay for costs companies are presently passing on to everyone else.

 

[Kulindahr]

[Text: Removed]
Capitalism/free enterprise has done more to benefit mankind than all other other factors, by far. Without it we would all be living disparate lives of poverty in one room hovels. Trump's solution is a great compromise: allow the environmental protections to remain in private hands while avoiding the totalitarianism implicit in the environmental movement.

Capitalism and free enterprise are NOT the same! Capitalism, just as feudalism and mercantilism, works against free enterprise.

Free enterprise has undeniably done immense good for humankind. Capitalism, OTOH, has given us toxic dumping, poisoning of populations, destruction of the environment, etc., for the simple reason that capitalists are happiest when they are in a position to do damage to anything and anyone that gets in their way and avoid paying for it.

 

[Benvolio]

F on understanding weather. "Seasonal cold" is not relevant to the heat produced by human beings and added to the planet, because it does not and cannot have any effect on the total.

The waste heat alone produced by all human technology in the U.S. is the equivalent of a three trillion watt heater running day in, day out. That isn't "insignificant" by any means, it's heat the planet didn't have before, and essentially none of it gets radiated back to space.

Of course much of that heat is absorbed by the cold air; the cold is just a little less cold than it would have been.

 

[Kulindahr]

Free enterprise needs freedom. You can't have the golden eggs if you kill the goose.

Capitalism limits freedom.

Your version of economics is a rape-the-planet, rape-the-country, rape-the-customer vision of corporatism. It doesn't careif it kills the goose, so long as that death is far enough in the future it won't bother them personally.

 

[Benvolio]

Capitalism and free enterprise are NOT the same! Capitalism, just as feudalism and mercantilism, works against free enterprise.

Free enterprise has undeniably done immense good for humankind. Capitalism, OTOH, has given us toxic dumping, poisoning of populations, destruction of the environment, etc., for the simple reason that capitalists are happiest when they are in a position to do damage to anything and anyone that gets in their way and avoid paying for it.

Hogwash capitalism is essential to free enterprise. Spare us your idiosyncratic definitions.

 

[ballcaphair]

Hogwash capitalism is essential to free enterprise. Spare us your idiosyncratic definitions.

The two are often related, but this supposes supply and demand. Climate change, regardless the cause, will turn both of these realities and their relationships on their heads. Take a look around, Sir.

 

[gsdx]

Of course much of that heat is absorbed by the cold air; the cold is just a little less cold than it would have been.

But if there is no global warming or climate change, why, then, does the cold 'absorb' the extra heat which you imply doesn't exist?

 

[ballcaphair]

But if there is no global warming or climate change, why, then, does the cold 'absorb' the extra heat which you imply doesn't exist?

gsdx, This is the perfect and precise question to ask. And, by the way ben, "the cold is just a little less cold than it would have been." = "Warming" ahem.

 

[Benvolio]

gsdx, This is the perfect and precise question to ask. And, by the way ben, "the cold is just a little less cold than it would have been." = "Warming" ahem.

Look again at #146.. I was responding to Kuindhars point that we create heat by heating houses, and many other ways. This is separate from the C02 issue. I did not concede the CO2 issue. As usual, gsdx did not understand the point being discussed, and I have him on ignore.

 

[gsdx]

Look again at #146.. I was responding to Kuindhars point that we create heat by heating houses, and many other ways. This is separate from the C02 issue. I did not concede the CO2 issue. As usual, gsdx did not understand the point being discussed, and I have him on ignore.

Excuse me. That isn't the post to which I was responding. I was responding to #163. I understood completely. You're just trying to make me look stupid because you can't answer my question.

 

[rareboy]

Of course much of that heat is absorbed by the cold air; the cold is just a little less cold than it would have been.

This is the stupidest fucking thing that I have read this year.

 

[Stardreamer]

Look again at #146.. I was responding to Kuindhars point that we create heat by heating houses, and many other ways. This is separate from the C02 issue. I did not concede the CO2 issue. As usual, gsdx did not understand the point being discussed, and I have him on ignore.

Except you ignore his other point, that excess heat is NOT radiated out into space but stays in the climate thus slowly warming the planet. CO2 and other greenhouse gases DIRECTLY relate to that effect. So it is NOT a separate issue but part of the overall effect.

 

[Benvolio]

Much of the earths heat is indeed radiated out to space. https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/EnergyBalance/page4.php

 

[Benvolio]

This is the stupidest fucking thing that I have read this year.

Hardly a day goes by that you do not say that to some one.

 

[Stardreamer]

Much of the earths heat is indeed radiated out to space. https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/EnergyBalance/page4.php

Didn't bother to read the whole article, did you?

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/EnergyBalance/page7.php

 

[kallipolis]

Didn't bother to read the whole article, did you?

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/EnergyBalance/page7.php

Worth quoting from the cited article:

However, as long as greenhouse gas concentrations continue to rise, the amount of absorbed solar energy will continue to exceed the amount of thermal infrared energy that can escape to space. The energy imbalance will continue to grow, and surface temperatures will continue to rise.

 

[Benvolio]

I understand the theory; I just do not believe total government is the answer.

 

[Stardreamer]

I understand the theory; I just do not believe total government is the answer.

Neither do I but I also disagree with society taking no action in a problem with such far reaching impacts and there is a whole lot of room between those two positions. Nothing is gained by ignoring the problem OR overhyping it. There are very practical reasons for more than just climate change alone to be encouraging our economies and societies to move away from fossil fuel technologies.

 

[gsdx]

Much of the earths heat is indeed radiated out to space. https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/EnergyBalance/page4.php

Unless the Greenhouse Effect keeps it in, and that is what is happening.

All that excess heat is being transferred into more powerful hurricanes and tornadoes, and more of them. Deny it all you want, but these are verifiable facts. Why do you think Trump deleted all those government websites? To get rid of the evidence, of course.

 

[ballcaphair]

Unless the Greenhouse Effect keeps it in, and that is what is happening.

All that excess heat is being transferred into more powerful hurricanes and tornadoes, and more of them. Deny it all you want, but these are verifiable facts. Why do you think Trump deleted all those government websites? To get rid of the evidence, of course.

Perfect question again. As a data junkie who loves to analog raw data, I am angry that mr trump has stolen countless records, histories and raw observations. This is a heartless political act. The value of this information is priceless. This really makes me fucking angry.