The World Without the US

[Norri]

The simple fact is that is other countries stop buying up US debt, Americans are going to be forced to buy it.

And eventually the interest penalties and premiums all fall back on the US taxpayer.

If Central Banks stop buying US debt....the US is definitely going to be left out in the cold...particulalry if Eurobonds become the safer haven.

Trump is using the leverage of US consumers to force other countries to negotiate new trade deals because they need access to our large and wealthy market and since we have a trade deficit with most countries the administrations belief is that we can’t loose a trade war.

If that war is confined to trade I see their point but there are areas where the US is exposed and it’s need to sell north of 1.5 trillion in debt each yr moving forward is one giant example. If central banks stop buying our debt what then? No doubt conservatives would attempt to use the crisis to eviscerate government and I’m sure some are drawing up plans now but unlike NYC in the 70s the feds can print money and if social security checks and military payrolls are in danger of even being reduced what then?

My guess is elected office holders would rather print the money and keep their jobs and the role of the dollar as the world reserve currency will come to an end. As I said the US is exposed.

One thing I’m not clear on is what the Fed might, or can, do. After the collapse of 08 they bought loads of government debt with what I’m not even sure so that whole fed thing confuses me but no matter with the amount of debt that needs to be sold I don’t think the Fed could absorb it all.

If isolation is the goal printing money should do the trick.

 

[rareboy]

So TrumpCo. have apparently finally said the quiet part out loud. From Robert Reich today:

Trump says he’ll use revenue from tariffs to “offset” more tax cuts.
Those tax cuts will disproportionately benefit wealthy Americans and big corporations.
But revenue raised from tariffs will be coming disproportionately from average working people.
See how this works?

 

[rareboy]

Trump is using the leverage of US consumers to force other countries to negotiate new trade deals because they need access to our large and wealthy market and since we have a trade deficit with most countries the administrations belief is that we can’t loose a trade war.

If that war is confined to trade I see their point but there are areas where the US is exposed and it’s need to sell north of 1.5 trillion in debt each yr moving forward is one giant example. If central banks stop buying our debt what then? No doubt conservatives would attempt to use the crisis to eviscerate government and I’m sure some are drawing up plans now but unlike NYC in the 70s the feds can print money and if social security checks and military payrolls are in danger of even being reduced what then?

My guess is elected office holders would rather print the money and keep their jobs and the role of the dollar as the world reserve currency will come to an end. As I said the US is exposed.

One thing I’m not clear on is what the Fed might, or can, do. After the collapse of 08 they bought loads of government debt with what I’m not even sure so that whole fed thing confuses me but no matter with the amount of debt that needs to be sold I don’t think the Fed could absorb it all.

If isolation is the goal printing money should do the trick.

The full faith and credit and in fact the basis of the American dollar is founded on the ability to tax Americans.

And that is being shifting from income tax to a consumer tax. And apparently a highly erratic system of federal sales tax at that.

And the strength of that is based on the assumption that US consumers will have income and the ability to keep consuming. In 2008, that fucking choked up and in 2019, choked again.

The US can print all the money it wants until it looks like Venezuela.

If people losing their jobs, with restricted credit and going underwater on medical debt, mortgages and household debt stop buying shit, the entire Us economy tanks. Again.

 

[NotHardUp1]

It is now coming out that the dumping of US bonds Wednesday night was likely by Japan, and it occurred DURING the negotiations over tariffs with the US.

The Japanese are no hapless minor player. They fully understand the US debt, and view the chaos as a sign that the US is no longer a safe haven for money.

I'd look for the bonds to be used again. The Japanese are not the only country holding large amounts, and they aren't the only ones who know how to use their leverage.

 

[Norri]

The full faith and credit and in fact the basis of the American dollar is founded on the ability to tax Americans.

And that is being shifting from income tax to a consumer tax. And apparently a highly erratic system of federal sales tax at that.

And the strength of that is based on the assumption that US consumers will have income and the ability to keep consuming. In 2008, that fucking choked up and in 2019, choked again.

The US can print all the money it wants until it looks like Venezuela.

If people losing their jobs, with restricted credit and going underwater on medical debt, mortgages and household debt stop buying shit, the entire Us economy tanks. Again.

I’d be careful what you wish for. A tanking US economy will bring the Canadians down with them and should an aggrieved and rapacious america be the result Canadians will learn how to say please and thank you thru gritted teeth.

 

[rareboy]

I’d be careful what you wish for. A tanking US economy will bring the Canadians down with them and should an aggrieved and rapacious america be the result Canadians will learn how to say please and thank you thru gritted teeth.

Who is wishing?

All we know is that the US is totally capable of destroying us all.

But fuck the US if you think we will be saying please and thank you through gritted teeth.

At this point we are actively looking at reinforcing the ties we have with Europe and Asia and Mexico that the Us is squandering.

We are your hostages only to a point.

 

[NotHardUp1]

It is now coming out that the dumping of US bonds Wednesday night was likely by Japan, and it occurred DURING the negotiations over tariffs with the US.

The Japanese are no hapless minor player. They fully understand the US debt, and view the chaos as a sign that the US is no longer a safe haven for money.

I'd look for the bonds to be used again. The Japanese are not the only country holding large amounts, and they aren't the only ones who know how to use their leverage.

 

[rareboy]

The US will never get many of these visitors back to their tourist destinations after the next four years.

 

[rareboy]

I expect other countries will soon follow.

 

[LilBit]

^Good for her.

 

[Essex Boy]

Since NotHardUp1 shared one of Mallen Baker's videos earlier in the thread, readers might like to hear his further thoughts on the future legacy of Donald the Destroyer.

The message of hope at the end struck a chord with me because I think Trump will change the world, but not in the way that he thinks. It won't be the New World Order that exists in his addled brain but one which will be built by the rest of the world as it repairs the damage—for better or worse. Authoritarian regimes are on the rise but the parts of the world where democracy is still alive and kicking could still give China and Russia a run for their money, couldn't they?

 

[rareboy]

^Good for her.

Eventually, just aboiut every country will need Americans to acquire Visas.

 

[TX-Beau]

Eventually, just aboiut every country will need Americans to acquire Visas.

Fair play. The fucking whining child men who think that they are so bad-ass the world will lick their boots if they say boo need to be painfully humbled. Maybe at that point they'll grow the fuck up.

I stand with Canada. I love my home, but what is happening is morally, ethically, and philosophically obscene. If you as fellow Americans somehow think that's not the naked truth you are fucking deluded, and in the end, WE are the ones who will end up saying please and thank you through gritted teeth.

How often has it been proven that you can't fight the entire world AND WIN?

 

[rareboy]

Uh oh.

Someone seems a little panicky.

Scott Bessent: "America First doesn't mean America Alone"

It actually does, Missy.

The US making everything a zero sum game, threatening invasions and trashing alliances and treaties and turning to naked fascism has isolated the country. At this point, no other nation is under obligation
to be your friend or partner. Except rrrZZZia, Hungary and El Salvador, I guess.

 

[NotHardUp1]

I'm pretty certain I have PM Envy.

 

[rareboy]

I am glad to see the EU creating a plan to support all the researchers and scientists that the US will be losing. I am hoping that Canada can be a part of this intiative as well.

What a turn-around from less than a century ago when many European scientists fled to the US.

 

[NotHardUp1]

The BBC interview with Biden reminds us of what sanity looks like. A very lucid ex-president articulates the impact of Trump madness.

It's like having a teacher comment on the study hall he found out of control when he returned from the principal's office.

BBC interview

There was a poignant question where Biden owns his difficulty is letting go. He will be respected by historians for his humanity, warts and all.

 

[rareboy]

Now the US is just being weird.

Demanding that other countries not respect Diversity Equity and Inclusion, particulalry where their embassies are doing business in those countries is a bit rich.

Anyhow, the US is being told to fuck off.

Stockholm rejects ‘bizarre’ US demand that city and embassy contractors be anti-DEI

France was also hit with the demand. ‘France and Europe will defend their companies, their consumers, but also their values,’ said the French Foreign Trade Ministry

www.the-independent.com

 

[rareboy]

Somewhat related.

Both China and RRRzzzia have had years of planning around how to undermine US power and influence around the globe.

I think even those two regimes are amazed at how quickly and easily this was accomplished by TrumpCo.

 

[rareboy]

Oh dear.

Rzzia is on the rise because of Africa, India and Pakistan.

The US era appears to be over.

US popularity collapses worldwide in wake of Trump’s return

The world is more divided than ever, but there’s still something (nearly) everyone agrees on: The U.S. is unloved.

www.politico.eu