tipping your waiter/waitress

[LilBit]

I don't leave bad tips depending on service. But my point is that 'I' shouldn't have to make up for it, I do, but I shouldn't have to. And the misdirected anger from the waiter/waitress crowd at the customer instead of the people who made the system the way it is.

Believe me, many servers are angry at the industry. The problem is, the industry has a powerful lobby, while the servers don't. (I've never heard of a servers' union, for that matter.)

On the rare occasions when I truly didn't perform up to par, I didn't begrudge my guest the bad tips. But when I had guest that ran me ragged and treated me rudely and stiffed me in spite of the fact that I provided them with fast and friendly service, then I had every right to resent their refusal to tip. I was also angry that my employer refused to pay me a living wage, but that doesn't excuse stinginess on the part of the guests. Most Americans are aware of the implied contract between a server and guests, so there's no excuse for not tipping.

 

[Willie Boy]

I'd just like to state for the record that the story about the word "tips" being an acronym for "to insure prompt service" is a myth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip_(gratuity)#Etymology

I take everything on Wiki with at least 1000 tons of salt. Anybody can get just about anything up there, true or not.

Also, I'm tired of people complaining that it's the employer's responsibility to pay decent wages. Yes, it's true. But like my redneck daddy always says, "Boy, I know all about 'should be.' You tell me about 'is.'" And in this case, "is" is that most restaurants pay piss-poor wages, and the expectation is that the customer will make up for that in the form of a tip. If you use the employer's stinginess as an excuse for your own stinginess, then you're no better than the restaurant owners.

I partially agree with you. But then there's the other side. We customers don't like our pleasant dining experience being held hostage by our wait staff as they try to extort their wages directly from because their stingy employee refuses to pay them "enough" money.

You want better pay? Find a higher paying job, or provide proper service to earn a proper tip. But if you bring us poor service, we'll let you know with a poor (or no) tip. Of course, we'll most likely go elsewhere until we find decent service. Then we'll stay with that establishment, leaving nice tips for the deserving staff.

 

[LilBit]

I take everything on Wiki with at least 1000 tons of salt. Anybody can get just about anything up there, true or not.

I just used Wikipedia because it was convenient. But there are plenty of other sources that argue the same thing, and the Wikipedia article also cites its sources.

http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp
http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/to_insure_promptness_tip_false_etymology/
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19990317

I partially agree with you. But then there's the other side. We customers don't like our pleasant dining experience being held hostage by our wait staff as they try to extort their wages directly from because their stingy employee refuses to pay them "enough" money.

You want better pay? Find a higher paying job, or provide proper service to earn a proper tip. But if you bring us poor service, we'll let you know with a poor (or no) tip. Of course, we'll most likely go elsewhere until we find decent service. Then we'll stay with that establishment, leaving nice tips for the deserving staff.

Again, I'm not arguing against poor tips in exchange for poor service. The thing that bothers me is when good servers get lousy tips, and the guest passes the buck to the employers rather than acknowledging the fact that there is an expectation that the customer provides the server's salary in the form of tips. I resent your use of the word extortion in this case. Servers aren't trying to weasel you out of your money. They're trying to earn a living wage.

I also resent the implied assumption that the default experience is lousy service. I eat out quite a bit, and I've found lousy service to be the exception, not the rule. And when I eat out, I do so with the expectation that I'll be shelling out for service as well as food. I appreciate the fact that I neither have to prepare my food nor clean up aftger myself, so I happily pay for that service.

 

[Willie Boy]

Believe me, many servers are angry at the industry. The problem is, the industry has a powerful lobby, while the servers don't.

Then do something about it! If enough servers wanted a change, they could make it happen. But instead, they take the job and demand the customer make up the difference. If enough employees leave for better pay, the employer will have to start paying more. Or wait the tables himself. But the point is you want us to do what you wont.

I've never heard of a servers' union, for that matter.

Check out this site: http://www.seiu.org

They may be able to help you.

 

[LilBit]

Then do something about it! If enough servers wanted a change, they could make it happen. But instead, they take the job and demand the customer make up the difference. If enough employees leave for better pay, the employer will have to start paying more. Or wait the tables himself. But the point is you want us to do what you wont.



Check out this site: http://www.seiu.org

They may be able to help you.

Just for the record, I haven't waited tables in eight years.

And you have an incredibly naive view of the industry. If all the servers had walked out of my restaurant and quit, the manager would have just replaced them all within a few days. The restaurant industry doesn't see its employees as valuable assets. It sees them as replaceable cogs. Like I've said in this thread and others, the restaurant industry is notorious for violations of labor laws and servers are pretty much powerless to do anything about it.

 

[Willie Boy]

Just for the record, I haven't waited tables in eight years.

And you have an incredibly naive view of the industry. If all the servers had walked out of my restaurant and quit, the manager would have just replaced them all within a few days. The restaurant industry doesn't see its employees as valuable assets. It sees them as replaceable cogs. Like I've said in this thread and others, the restaurant industry is notorious for violations of labor laws and servers are pretty much powerless to do anything about it.

My view is not naive. But the point I was making is, if you agree to the pay at the beginning you have no cause to complain about it. And your suggestion that wait staff is that easy to replace is something to remember. That field is an unskilled field - it isn't a get rich quick field. You have to expect a lot of hard work for minimal pay. Its the service industry, its about serving others, not getting free money.

Servers who try to extort money from customers for simply doing their job are idiots. All they do is drive the customers away. The better the service, the more willing we are to leave a gratuity (and a larger one at that). You try and demand money from us and your lucky we don't dump our food on you as we head out the door to a more pleasant dining experience. Then the cost of the food will come out of your paycheck.

I know, you say it shouldn't be that way. But that's just the way it is.

 

[LilBit]

Willie Boy, what is this extortion you keep talking about? In most restaurants, servers are prohibited from even talking about tips in the presence of guests. It sounds to me like you just don't like to tip.

 

[BFizzle]

I don't do the whole percentage thing. I tip you what I feel you deserve. I've been a waiter before so I feel like I've earned my right.

 

[Gatorguy]

I think there are two points to consider:

The worst service I've received has been in places where the service charge is included (resorts in S. FL, for example). Let's face it, no matter how aggressive the management is, money is a more powerful motivator. I believe tipping, and tipping well helps improve the overall experience significantly.

On the flip side, I do believe people who receive cash tips should declare every dollar for taxes, just as most working Americans have done with their earnings. Plenty of people I know (virtually all) who are in the service industry do not have that perspective. They know they average significantly more than the 8% withheld, but believe it should be "tax free". It lessens their "skin in the game" when they are exempted from shouldering the tax burden, and doesn't give them a clear decision-making perspective, regardless of their politics.

 

[bma1983]

Then do something about it! If enough servers wanted a change, they could make it happen. But instead, they take the job and demand the customer make up the difference. If enough employees leave for better pay, the employer will have to start paying more. Or wait the tables himself. But the point is you want us to do what you wont.

Servers who try to extort money from customers for simply doing their job are idiots. All they do is drive the customers away. The better the service, the more willing we are to leave a gratuity (and a larger one at that). You try and demand money from us and your lucky we don't dump our food on you as we head out the door to a more pleasant dining experience. Then the cost of the food will come out of your paycheck.

Exactly! At what point did it become the customer's responsibility to pay the server as if we were the employer?

 

[Willie Boy]

Willie Boy, what is this extortion you keep talking about? In most restaurants, servers are prohibited from even talking about tips in the presence of guests. It sounds to me like you just don't like to tip.

It doesn't have to be spoken through one's voice, its in the attitude, the body language. Then I see things like this thread here and elsewhere.... Doesn't take a rocket scientist to add 2 + 2 and get 4.

Your part right about me not liking to tip, at least not these days when its demanded. It used to be that practically the instant you looked to get a waiter's/server's attention one would be standing at your table ready to offer assistance, these days you have to flag them down and practically trip one as they pass your table to get their attention. I remember a time when your food was brought out fresh and hot exactly as you ordered it THE FIRST time (or at least with a sincere apology for any corrections that were needed), today your lucky if its still warm and takes less than 3 attempts to get it right (after which the servers get upset that you wont just take what you are "given"). And they still expect at least 20% for a tip?

It used to be that I would offer 15% for minimum, basic service (you got the food to my table, no smile and minimal of corrected errors/spills), 20% for decent service (as previously, but you were pleasant/smiled at least and offered a bit of friendly conversation), and even higher for better service. I've been known to leave a $220 tip on a $180 meal before, but that was for excellent service and $100 of it went directly to the chef because the food was exceptionally prepared. Not to mention that was back before tips were demanded, back when they were merely a custom. Back when they were left at the customer's discretion.

 

[altlover85]

Not to mention that was back before tips were demanded, back when they were merely a custom. Back when they were left at the customer's discretion.

When is this time you speak where tips were merely a custom and what was the wage that waitstaff received back then?

I generally give 15-20% and go as low as 10% if the service was bad.

 

[youngnihilist]

female servers get 12-15%
male servers get 15-20% (more likely 20% if they're cute)
gay male servers get 20-40% depending on service and how cute they are.

gay bartenders can get as much as 50-100% tip if they let me cut the line and pour super strong

 

[Willie Boy]

When is this time you speak where tips were merely a custom and what was the wage that waitstaff received back then?

That was back in the 80s and 90s, as recent as 2001. But by the the attitude was well on the way in transitioning from custom to demand. And back then the minimum wage was lower than it is now. And yet, service was much better back then. Those were the days.

I tip generously ( 25-30% at least).... as long as it is earned (Adequate quality of service, no attitude of entitlement to my money just because I have stopped in for a meal, a friendly smile, maybe polite conversation, courteous greeting.... the basics). Sadly, it is rarely earned. This is the main reason my partner and I don't eat out much anymore (that and its much easier to transition to dessert ).

 

[altlover85]

Thanks for clarifying, WillieBoy!

 

[Muzzy91]

Considering I was a waiter for a year and half, I always tip at least 20%.

On the rare occasions when I truly didn't perform up to par, I didn't begrudge my guest the bad tips. But when I had guest that ran me ragged and treated me rudely and stiffed me in spite of the fact that I provided them with fast and friendly service, then I had every right to resent their refusal to tip. I was also angry that my employer refused to pay me a living wage, but that doesn't excuse stinginess on the part of the guests. Most Americans are aware of the implied contract between a server and guests, so there's no excuse for not tipping.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Yes, there were times that I admit that I was not the best waiter and when I didn't recieve much of tip, I understood why and didn't get mad at the customer. However, there were plenty of times where I was a good waiter (actually going beyond and bending the rules for the customer's benefit) and the customers were just cheap and left me next to nothing. It was those instances that got me mad and complaining to my co-workers who also experienced such lousy tipping from time to time. After doing extra stuff for customers and have them give me a lousy tip just had the effect of making me less inclined to do those little extra things for them. I mean, what's the point of being extra helpful and bending the rules for them when odds are that I would get stiffed on the tip anyways?

In the case of the new waitress that was trying very hard but not doing so well, I say cut her some slack. Being new to the business, she doesn't have the experience that the other servers have and it it is much more difficult for her. The first time you try something, odds are you are not going to be amazing at it. I wasn't the perfect waiter when I started out, in fact I made many mistakes. It took time for me to learn everything and gain the experience on how to be a good waiter.

I have to say, the most annoying part of being a waiter was the impatient people. I don't understand how some customers don't realize that they are not your only table. Servers only have two feet and two hands, and they can only do so many things at one time. When the restaraunt is busy, the customers have to understand that things are going to take a little bit longer to get to their table. The customer has to realize that the server is actually running around trying to balance the work of all their tables and not just standing around being lazy.

 

[Willie Boy]

Believe me, many servers are angry at the industry. The problem is, the industry has a powerful lobby, while the servers don't. (I've never heard of a servers' union, for that matter.)

On the rare occasions when I truly didn't perform up to par, I didn't begrudge my guest the bad tips. But when I had guest that ran me ragged and treated me rudely and stiffed me in spite of the fact that I provided them with fast and friendly service, then I had every right to resent their refusal to tip. I was also angry that my employer refused to pay me a living wage, but that doesn't excuse stinginess on the part of the guests. Most Americans are aware of the implied contract between a server and guests, so there's no excuse for not tipping.

Ah yes, the implied contract: "give me extra money and I wont make your dining experience HELL". That might be a contract in your mind, but in the real world we call that legalized extortion. And the more forceful the waitsaff becomes with it, the fewer patrons their restaurants will have.

Personally, I can't wait until Automated Servers are available in restaurants.

 

[Muzzy91]

Ah yes, the implied contract: "give me extra money and I wont make your dining experience HELL". That might be a contract in your mind, but in the real world we call that legalized extortion. And the more forceful the waitsaff becomes with it, the fewer patrons their restaurants will have.

Personally, I can't wait until Automated Servers are available in restaurants.

I personally have never seen a server that follows your version of the implied contract. Every server I know does their best in an attempt to make the customers happy. Your version of the implied contract shows the serving staff taking advantage of it, and to be honest, I think it is the complete opposite way around. More often than not, it is customers taking advantage of it by leaving pathetic tips to the servers.

 

[Willie Boy]

I personally have never seen a server that follows your version of the implied contract. Every server I know does their best in an attempt to make the customers happy. Your version of the implied contract shows the serving staff taking advantage of it, and to be honest, I think it is the complete opposite way around. More often than not, it is customers taking advantage of it by leaving pathetic tips to the servers.

You can only see that which you are willing to acknowledge.

There are far too many servers out there who feel an entitlement just because they agreed to work for such low wages. Sadly, the quality employees are most often lost in the Sea of Dross.

But I will agree there are many restaurant patrons who have become disillusioned with the whole gratuity idea and subsequently refuse to leave a tip. But can you blame them when they start feeling like their dining experience is being held for ransom?

 

[Muzzy91]

You can only see that which you are willing to acknowledge.

There are far too many servers out there who feel an entitlement just because they agreed to work for such low wages. Sadly, the quality employees are most often lost in the Sea of Dross.

But I will agree there are many restaurant patrons who have become disillusioned with the whole gratuity idea and subsequently refuse to leave a tip. But can you blame them when they start feeling like their dining experience is being held for ransom?

From my experince as both a waiter and as a customer, I have never had the feeling that someone's dining experience was being held hostage. Therefore, because I have never seen it, I will not acknowledge it. I only acknowledge what I see, not the other way around.

I can most certainly blame them because their pathetic tips are not the result of "their dining experince being held for ransom," it is beause they are merely being cheap.