tipping your waiter/waitress

[Homothug]

^^^ My dude you're just cheap. If you're consistantly getting bad service, that says something about you bro. I've never gotten bad service in my life.

Anyway 20% is standard in NYC but I think in other states and countries it's like 10 or 15% or something less than 20%

 

[Muzzy91]

I was making a simple point with that post. The guy I was responding to claimed to be a server, but couldn't even be bothered to check his spelling. How likely is he to put any more attention into making sure the orders of his customers are correct? And yet he's complaining about receiving poor tips.....

Wow...it's called priorities. A post on an online forum arguing with you after being awake for roughly 20 hours straight is not high on my list of important things and thusly, I didn't (and still don't) give a crap about spelling mistakes.

My job, on the other hand, was quite different. When it came to people's orders, I would double/triple check it when I put into the computer to make sure it went in completely right. It was my job to make sure people had a good dining experience and I did my best to make that happen. The way you say it, you make it seem like I constantly received horrible tips and that wasn't the case at all. Normally, I received good tips because of how much effort I put forth. I was complaining about the occasional customers who would run the server ragged while they were there and then leave them pathetic tips. In my opinion, that is just not right.

 

[altlover85]

I was making a simple point with that post. The guy I was responding to claimed to be a server, but couldn't even be bothered to check his spelling. How likely is he to put any more attention into making sure the orders of his customers are correct? And yet he's complaining about receiving poor tips.....

The spelling has already been addressed better by other people and I have no reason to believe Muzzy91 is a liar.

I don't see why I should be expected to pay an extra 20% when I have to get up from the table and track a waiter down when we're out of bread sticks, or my partner needs more cream for his coffee, or the wrong entree was delivered, or the hot soup was cold. I could understand maybe once, and would still offer 15%, but when 3 or more of those issues occur the waiter hasn't earned a tip.

Where are you going that you get such bad service? How busy was the restaurant when this incident occurred?

 

[BeMused]

The point has probably been made in this long thread, but in most states (other than CA) servers and bartenders are paid minimal hourly rates (here in MA, most get $2.50/hr, all of which is taxed away so they get $0.00 paychecks). Tips are their only pay in these cases. In these cases, even if your server sucks ass, give them SOMETHING. NEVER leave without giving some sort of tip unless they personally ROYALLY fuck up your dining experience. If the kitchen fucks up your order don't take it out on your server (granted guests don't always know which part of the staff is at fault for errors). Working in a restaurant myself, I always tip generously as long as the service is decent, and rarely leave less than 18%

 

[hco516]

As someone who currently works in the restaurant business, and has for the last 8 years I feel inclined to say a couple of things. I'm sure some of this has already been said, but just in case, this is my two cents.

In many parts of this country the minimum wage for tipped employees is far lower than the standard $7.25/HR. In the restaurant I currently work, front of house service staff is paid $2.13/HR. Most weeks the "paycheck" we receive is actually a negative dollar amount. Our hourly rate doesn't even cover the taxes we owe on a year to year basis. In April when many people are getting money back, we are trying to figure out how much we are going to have to pay in taxes.

Many anti-tipping people say that if that is the case then restaurant owners need to "stop being so cheap" and pay their staff more. Well that certainly sounds like a reasonable solution to this problem, except for one small fact. If every server was paid $7.25 or more, the owner would have to find alternative way to increase their revenue. What's the easiest way to do that you say? Well the most obvious way would be to raise prices for pretty much everything on the menu. Your $14 entree just became a $20 entree. That $7 martini, it's $9 now. At the end of the day, your meal will cost the same amount of money. You're tipping the server or covering more of the cost of the product, either way you're still spending enough money to help the restaurant make money, and maintain a good staff.

I try to give every single table A+ service. That is my goal every time I walk in the door. Some days, shit happens and i'm only able to give B+ service, but I assure you, I'm not trying to steal your money. If I haven't upheld my end of the agreement that we entered when you sat in my section I don't deserve your money. BUT if I have done everything you have asked and more, I expect you to honor the current system that this country has in place and leave me a tip of at least 15%.

The one other argument I hear quite often in these online tipping debates is that servers who don't like making 2.13 an hour should find a better job, or that working in a restaurant is an "unskilled" individuals job. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it takes a rocket scientist to wait tables, but I don't know a lot of stupid, untalented servers. I know a lot of college educated, talented, exceptional people that work in restaurants. I have also seen a million idiots try to do my job and fail miserably. Whether you think waiting tables is an honorable occupation should not effect the way you treat your server.


Is the system flawed? Maybe. But this is the country you choose to live in. There are a lot of things about this country that are great, and there are some things that suck. Unfortunately we all have to take the good with the bad. Sure you, as an individual, can fight the system, but if you don't want to tip well, don't expect good service. One thing that many servers have as one of their "skills" is a very good memory. We remember the people that take care of us, and we remember the ones that don't.

 

[altlover85]

Great post hco516!

Welcome to JUB!

 

[Muzzy91]

As someone who currently works in the restaurant business, and has for the last 8 years I feel inclined to say a couple of things. I'm sure some of this has already been said, but just in case, this is my two cents.

In many parts of this country the minimum wage for tipped employees is far lower than the standard $7.25/HR. In the restaurant I currently work, front of house service staff is paid $2.13/HR. Most weeks the "paycheck" we receive is actually a negative dollar amount. Our hourly rate doesn't even cover the taxes we owe on a year to year basis. In April when many people are getting money back, we are trying to figure out how much we are going to have to pay in taxes.

Many anti-tipping people say that if that is the case then restaurant owners need to "stop being so cheap" and pay their staff more. Well that certainly sounds like a reasonable solution to this problem, except for one small fact. If every server was paid $7.25 or more, the owner would have to find alternative way to increase their revenue. What's the easiest way to do that you say? Well the most obvious way would be to raise prices for pretty much everything on the menu. Your $14 entree just became a $20 entree. That $7 martini, it's $9 now. At the end of the day, your meal will cost the same amount of money. You're tipping the server or covering more of the cost of the product, either way you're still spending enough money to help the restaurant make money, and maintain a good staff.

I try to give every single table A+ service. That is my goal every time I walk in the door. Some days, shit happens and i'm only able to give B+ service, but I assure you, I'm not trying to steal your money. If I haven't upheld my end of the agreement that we entered when you sat in my section I don't deserve your money. BUT if I have done everything you have asked and more, I expect you to honor the current system that this country has in place and leave me a tip of at least 15%.

The one other argument I hear quite often in these online tipping debates is that servers who don't like making 2.13 an hour should find a better job, or that working in a restaurant is an "unskilled" individuals job. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it takes a rocket scientist to wait tables, but I don't know a lot of stupid, untalented servers. I know a lot of college educated, talented, exceptional people that work in restaurants. I have also seen a million idiots try to do my job and fail miserably. Whether you think waiting tables is an honorable occupation should not effect the way you treat your server.


Is the system flawed? Maybe. But this is the country you choose to live in. There are a lot of things about this country that are great, and there are some things that suck. Unfortunately we all have to take the good with the bad. Sure you, as an individual, can fight the system, but if you don't want to tip well, don't expect good service. One thing that many servers have as one of their "skills" is a very good memory. We remember the people that take care of us, and we remember the ones that don't.

You said it so much better than I ever could have.

Welcome to JUB too!

 

[Telstra]

tipping is de-meaning.
It is like begging ....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZZWhSvOMI[/ame]

 

[Telstra]

why not charge 20% on top for everyone. Problems solved.

Good or bad waiters is the restaurant owner's responsibility.

 

[Gatorguy]

why not charge 20% on top for everyone. Problems solved.

Good or bad waiters is the restaurant owner's responsibility.

As long as every restaurant did this, I think it would be great.

I think servers would hate it though in the US. Right now: they exempt the bulk of their tips from Federal and State income tax (12%-38%); they add another layer of exemption for Social Security taxes (approx. 4% this year); and they also add an additional layer of exemption from Medicare taxes (approx. 1%).

The restaurants are exempting the Social Security tax portion (approx 6% this year) and also the Medicare portion from their actual expenses as well.

The State and Federal governments would love it, of course in these tough economic times. I don't think though that servers or restaurants are really willing to start paying their fair share of taxes and your model would force that.

 

[Ninja108]

I make it a point to tip 15 to 20%. However, I've had a couple of waiters/waitress who were truly miserable and rude people. They got a 1.00 tip along with advice that they should treat their customers better.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Well, Blackbelt, I can only give you snippets:

Snippet:. I know that many better-class establishments have what's called "table-side service", where the waiter actually has to cook certain dishes for you right in front of you. Steak Diane, for example, is a dish that is done "tableside".

Snippet: some waiters do something called "chilling a wine by fire". (Ask me.)

Snippet: a pretty good knowledge of wine is necessary. Not expert knowledge, but certainly above normal. (What's a Sauvignon Blanc? What goes well with it? and so on.)

Snippet: some dishes are set on fire in front of the customer. Cherries Jubilee, I believe, is done this way. For obvious reasons, this takes a certain level of skill. (Fire!)

Snippet: some upper class establishments serve souffles. A waiter's timing has to be absolutely perfect to serve souffles, because the dish needs to be served right then.

A point to ponder: we call an inexperienced waiter a "greenhorn". You will never, ever find a greenhorn in a better-class establishment.

Piece of trivia: Waitstaff used to be dominated by men; the profession still is, in Europe. But during WW2, the women had to go to work to keep things running while the men were at war.

In cheaper establishments, this tradition held. This is why waitstaff in the US is primarily female. (Note: this has begun to change in the last few years.)

OK: back to topic....

Ah

None of these things occur in .za, apart from the occasional sommelier who handles wine-advising duties. We have massive winelands here in and around Cape Town and most Capetonians know their way around what wine goes well with which dish, so even sommeliers are a rarity.

The others... not a sausage in any of the high-end eateries I've been to.

-d-

 

[altlover85]

The others... not a sausage in any of the high-end eateries I've been to.

I don't get it. Is this a phrase I'm not familiar with?

 

[chrisrobin]

I think 15-20% is standard. However, I understand that waiters don't get paid very much. Plus, if I use plastic, and add the tip onto the total, I think the amount goes into a general fund and what the waiter receives is reported to the IRS. Therefore, my tip is usually cash.

What I give as a tip is very subjective. If I go to "Steak and Shake", maybe I'll spend $5-6. Automatically, I'll just leave a buck. If I'm having a dinner and the service is above average, I'll give 20%. If the service isn't so good, back to 15%. Generally though, I overtip.

There was one case where I was in a hurry and couldn't order a "regular" type dinner. So, I had a cup of soup and a small sandwich. My waitress seemed very annoyed at my small order - a real turnoff. As a token of my appreciation, I left her a penny. The manager, who was at the register asked me how everything was. I apologized for not ordering more and never went back to the place.

 

[Telstra]

I think 15-20% is standard. However, I understand that waiters don't get paid very much. Plus, if I use plastic, and add the tip onto the total, I think the amount goes into a general fund and what the waiter receives is reported to the IRS. Therefore, my tip is usually cash.

What I give as a tip is very subjective. If I go to "Steak and Shake", maybe I'll spend $5-6. Automatically, I'll just leave a buck. If I'm having a dinner and the service is above average, I'll give 20%. If the service isn't so good, back to 15%. Generally though, I overtip.

There was one case where I was in a hurry and couldn't order a "regular" type dinner. So, I had a cup of soup and a small sandwich. My waitress seemed very annoyed at my small order - a real turnoff. As a token of my appreciation, I left her a penny. The manager, who was at the register asked me how everything was. I apologized for not ordering more and never went back to the place.

Thats how the tip system works.
Small orders = fuck off, money talks.

That is why the workers/waiters should be paid properly and not to rely on tips.
If they are not good workers, sack them.

 

[Telstra]

I've noticed a pattern.

Quite a few of the "anti-tippers" are from the Commonwealth, especially Australia. Is there a special reason?

I'm asking because I don't know.

As i said, tipping is cultural. I never tip in my whole life and its foreign to me.
Over here, people don't tip, its demeaning like begging for money.

But i will tip if that is the norm. I don't want to be the odd one out.

 

[blackbeltninja]

I don't get it. Is this a phrase I'm not familiar with?

It means "nothing at all" or in the context I used it "it never happens."

No idea of the etymology though; a quick Googleblast thinks it is based on Cockney rhyming slang, where the term "sausage and mash" would be used instead of "cash." Thus "I haven't got a sausage" would mean I have no money, or I have nothing.

Don't look at me, I don't get the point of rhyming slang. The only one I've found vaguely useful and sensible is "trouble and strife," which is quite an appropriate term for one's wife.

-d-

 

[altlover85]

Thanks blackbeltninja!

 

[hco516]

That is why the workers/waiters should be paid properly and not to rely on tips.
If they are not good workers, sack them.

While I understand where you are coming from, it's not nearly as easy as you think to find good people who want to work in a restaurant.

If restaurant employees were paid a salary there would be no motivation to work hard. I bust my ass every day. The only thing that keeps me motivated is the thought that the harder I work, and the nicer I treat people, the more money I will make. Would you want the lady that works the cash register at walmart serving you your food? Because if the restaurant industry was a minimum wage job those are the people that would be working in a restaurant.

And it slightly offends me that you compare working for tips to begging for money. I'm working hard to ensure that you enjoy your meal, whether it's a five dollar lunch or a 25 dollar entree doesn't matter to me. It's a give and take. The better your treat me, the better your overall experience will be. That is why you are tipping me.

I have a college degree, I CHOOSE to work in a restaurant because I like being around people, I like the hours, and of course I like the fact my salary is determined by how hard I work.

I do very much appreciate that you adhere to our customs while living here. I just wish more people would realize that just because I work in a restaurant doesn't mean that I'm less talented, less motivated, or less intelligent than you.

 

[LilBit]

^Darlin', since you're new here, I should probably explain Telstra to you.

You see, nobody ever explained to him that you're supposed to sniff poppers, not drink them.

Telly is a sweetheart, but he's a few clowns short of a circus. We keep him around because he has a nine-inch tongue and he's missing three pairs of ribs.