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To No A Veil

^ LOL,
during job interview she wears no veil, and then she wears veil during her job thats called deception.

its like wear an appropriate clothes during job interview, then going nude during job (the extreme opposite).
 
Dude: Do you bother reading what you post? I mean, at all? AT HIS REQUEST, and DUE TO HER HUSBAND'S WISH she entered into a religion that required her to have limited integration with society. She was in love, and wanting to possibly escape from her life, and HER HUSBAND MADE A SPECIAL REQUIREMENT of her.

Yes, it was her decision. But she made her decision based on what her husband told her, and he should have known the situation. Because of her husband's decision, she isn't able to get citizenship. And her husband, who forced her to make that decision is getting off scot-free...

And I still don't see how you can say that France has freedom of religion when it is obviously persecuting someone for their religion and doesn't allow public expressions of religion...

RG

I have explained the French system to you. Just because you cannot understand it does not make it wrong. The French have been pretty pleased with laïcité since the 1880's, so I do not believe they are going to change their system because other people cannot understand it or because of Islamist leaders and their followers who do not recognize the superiority of civil law over religious law.

This woman made a conscious choice. Her husband cannot be blamed for a decision she made. She was not forced to marry him, she chose to do so. Knowing what he was like and what would be required of her, she chose to marry him. That is HER responsibility and no one else's.

If I meet someone whose religious or cultural ideas to not conform to my own, I have to make a conscious decision as to whether I will agree with him and do things his way or whether I will attempt to win him over to my way, or whether I will simply walk away from the relationship. Either way, a intelligent decision will be made by all involved and no one will be forced to do anything. Additionally, I will have to accept responsibility for whatever consequences should arise from the decision at which I arrive.

It seems that you are feeding into the same male dominated chauvinism that the French government resents so much in Salafism. The husband makes all the decisions so it must be the husband's fault.

This was a woman who ABDICATED her rights to her husband. That was no one else's fault or decision to do so but her own.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that France is obligated to grant citizenship to whomever rings the doorbell. No country is obligated to grant citizenship to just anyone. That is what is called sovereignty. Countries get to decide for themselves who they believe will make a positive addition to their nation.

France requires integration into the system of laïcité. Anyone who does not like that rule needs to find a different country in which to live, it is really that simple. Laïcité is currently accepted by all of France's mainstream religions and a wide majority of the populace.

Wikipedia.org gives these figures with regards to the recent law banning conspicuous religious symbols in schools:

Polls suggest that a large majority of the French favour the ban. A January 2004 survey for Agence France-Presse showed 78% of teachers in favour.[6] A February 2004 survey by CSA for Le Parisien showed 69% of the population for the ban and 29% against. For Muslims in France, the February survey showed 42% for and 53% against. Among surveyed Muslim women, 49% approved the proposed law, and 43% opposed it.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French..._religious_symbols_in_schools#Public_reaction

It is not up to France to conform to everyone else's belief systems, but rather the duty of prospective French citizens to learn the French system and conform accordingly. The US has its own rules and regulations for acquiring citizenship, and certainly do not grant it to everyone. I am certain you are not jumping up and down protesting those who are denied citizenship by the US.
 
I have explained the French system to you. Just because you cannot understand it does not make it wrong.
To claim freedom of religion means that you need to allow its expression. Anyone can do virtual anything behind closed doors, so allowing the expression only behind closed doors doesn't demonstrate any true acceptance of other religions.

The French have been pretty pleased with laïcité since the 1880's, so I do not believe they are going to change their system because other people cannot understand it or because of Islamist leaders and their followers who do not recognize the superiority of civil law over religious law.
Do you really know how easy it is to shred this argument? Or have you not quite realized that you are writing in a forum the majority of whose members have been in a long-established position of inferiority that was accepted for a long time?




Her husband cannot be blamed for a decision she made. She was not forced to marry him, she chose to do so. Knowing what he was like and what would be required of her, she chose to marry him. That is HER responsibility and no one else's.
Weird situation: I appreciate that she made the decision to be in the inferior position. However, I find it ironic that a French person doesn't appreciate that sometimes you make stupid decisions for love;; obvious passionate French is a mere stereotype.

If I meet someone whose religious or cultural ideas to not conform to my own, I have to make a conscious decision as to whether I will agree with him and do things his way or whether I will attempt to win him over to my way, or whether I will simply walk away from the relationship.
Why? Is your position that superior that you need to make a decision on whether or not to enlighten them? Why not simply accept them for who they are, and hope that they will accept you?

It seems that you are feeding into the same male dominated chauvinism that the French government resents so much in Salafism. The husband makes all the decisions so it must be the husband's fault.
Or I could, heaven forbid, be allowing that she made a decision based while under Love's first blush, as people have since the beginning of time. Yes, I agree that she made a bad decision, but I think that a legitimate case could be made that she was coerced into that decision. I'm just not seeing how that's a chauvinistic response, as opposed to one that seeks to look at all possible sides.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that France is obligated to grant citizenship to whomever rings the doorbell.
No, I'm not; I am from a country after all that has restrictions on how many people can immigrate from any given country. However, whereas I could understand a straight-forward bureaucratic reason, the reason given is not one I would expect from an enlightened society. I'm seeing spousal abuse and giving a reason to not pursue it. Worse, I'm seeing the husband getting off free and the woman being punished for it. At least France is living up to its chauvinistic reputation...

France requires integration into the system of laïcité. Anyone who does not like that rule needs to find a different country in which to live, it is really that simple. Laïcité is currently accepted by all of France's mainstream religions and a wide majority of the populace.
Just as slavery was, or homosexuality as perversion, or that women were second-class citizens...I don't find being "accepted by the majority" to be as comforting as you do. My issue is that the woman was never given a chance to integrate, and was in fact discouraged from doing so by her husband, a husband who should have known that restricting his wife as he did would have limited her bid for citizenship. It doesn't really take a genius to see that he now has absolute power over her in the country she now finds herself in....but that's acceptable to the majority, so I guess it's okay...


It is not up to France to conform to everyone else's belief systems, but rather the duty of prospective French citizens to learn the French system and conform accordingly.
Gotta love the French system: You can bring someone in, treat them like dirt, and they have to accept it. Better yet, because I haven't allowed them a chance to integrate, they have to do what I say because they simply can't apply for any of the benefits that a citizen o the country they are in. And if someone disagrees, that peron just isn't as enlightened as you are...

The US has its own rules and regulations for acquiring citizenship, and certainly do not grant it to everyone. I am certain you are not jumping up and down protesting those who are denied citizenship by the US.

Yeah, we're stupid. We don't care about the person's religion or beliefs as long as the person is interested in being a productive member of society, and doesn't have a reputation of being otherwise. What skills the person has is more important than whether or not the person prays, and to which god. Ah well...

RG
 
A veil of tears.

This from today's London "Sunday Times":

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6035022.ece

Amidst her tears she says: "I can't see how he (her son) is progressing."

Her son attends a Roman Catholic school.

RC schools/churches are banned in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and many other Islamic states.

BTW: greaves lives in the UK. Most Jubbers live in North America. Are there any laws in the USA/Canada regarding women wearing the niquab/niqab?
 
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