Too many effeminate images of black gay men on television

[kayman23]

You'll forgive me if I don't waste time on responding to you. I've explained that one comment in further posts. If you've read them, you know exactly what I meant. I doubt you did though.

I did but 'no take'...

 

[Taralen]

Big Brother Canada. Gary
He almost got evicted because he is glitter happy.
But dont judge, he is good at playing the game

Gary is actually a member on this forum. I'm not gonna tell you who though.

 

[refujiunderground]

Gary is actually a member on this forum. I'm not gonna tell you who though.

you.

 

[Rolyo85]

Ok, I've had just about all I can take of your cantankerous ramblings and flame throwing.

You need some smelling salts to go with that Victorian lady temper tantrum?

 

[Passion4Muzik]

There have been some valid points made by several people in the thread that I agree with so I'll add to the discussion by piggybacking on some things and adding my unique view.

I do agree that of the black gays on television, whether scripted or on reality tv, there is an presence of more feminine men. I disagree with the notion that it is somehow a bad thing for the men to be feminine. The feminine gay man is going to be easier to spot than a masculine gay men because masculine gay men are not distinguishable from masculine straight men. Most of the black gay men I know are closeted regardless of where they fall on the scale of fem-masc. Because the feminine gay men are easier to identify as gay, they are the ones who are going to be out of the closet more. Unless there is a "down low" story line, where is the masculine gay black male going to fit in on scripted television? There has been a progression over the last few years in regard to more homosexuals being open, but let's not pretend that in every day life there are tons of masculine, gay black men (or white men) who are out of the closet, yet television is only showing the feminine ones.

On the Real Housewives of Atlanta, for example, there have been three feminine, black gay men featured prominently as friends of the Housewives. You don't see masculine, gay black men featured on there because they are in the closet! If you want to see more masculine, gay black men on tv then you should step up to the plate and get yourself on television or become a writer and create masculine, gay black male characters. Also, another thing you can do is lead by example and be a masculine, gay black man who is out of the closet yourself. If you're not out of the closet and you're not a masculine, gay black male yourself, you have no room to complain.

Rolyo85, you made some valid points, but they are getting marred by your racial generalizations and insensitivity.

 

[Phantas33]

There have been some valid points made by several people in the thread that I agree with so I'll add to the discussion by piggybacking on some things and adding my unique view.

I do agree that of the black gays on television, whether scripted or on reality tv, there is an presence of more feminine men. I disagree with the notion that it is somehow a bad thing for the men to be feminine. The feminine gay man is going to be easier to spot than a masculine gay men because masculine gay men are not distinguishable from masculine straight men. Most of the black gay men I know are closeted regardless of where they fall on the scale of fem-masc. Because the feminine gay men are easier to identify as gay, they are the ones who are going to be out of the closet more. Unless there is a "down low" story line, where is the masculine gay black male going to fit in on scripted television? There has been a progression over the last few years in regard to more homosexuals being open, but let's not pretend that in every day life there are tons of masculine, gay black men (or white men) who are out of the closet, yet television is only showing the feminine ones.

On the Real Housewives of Atlanta, for example, there have been three feminine, black gay men featured prominently as friends of the Housewives. You don't see masculine, gay black men featured on there because they are in the closet! If you want to see more masculine, gay black men on tv then you should step up to the plate and get yourself on television or become a writer and create masculine, gay black male characters. Also, another thing you can do is lead by example and be a masculine, gay black man who is out of the closet yourself. If you're not out of the closet and you're not a masculine, gay black male yourself, you have no room to complain.

Rolyo85, you made some valid points, but they are getting marred by your racial generalizations and insensitivity.

Exactly my point - perhaps I was more blunt about it but THIS! Change doesn't exist because of complaining about something - it becomes a reality through action.

 

[Phantas33]

I wanna add to my reply that, perhaps the lack of activism among black gay men is in fact part of the issue here? Despite what you may think I do care, and I understand black gays may get ridiculed or worse. Well, guess what, the white gay population already went through that - check your history. Perhaps black gay men need a spokesperson or several, someone who dares speak out and take on hot issues. Challenge them. Only then some things might change for the better. It may not happen overnight, it might take years. But it will happen. And one can either be a part of that or just stand by and let black gay men be ridiculed without doing anything about it.

Just sitting here accusing the media or TV or Hollywood won't change a single fucking thing, that much I can tell you.

 

[Rolyo85]

Rolyo85, you made some valid points, but they are getting marred by your racial generalizations and insensitivity.

Two things:

1. I have not used racial generalizations more than the people I've argued with. They said things like "In the black community RuPaul is not respected", "The black community doesn't like feminine gay men" and "you don't know what it's like being gay in the black community". If they can use racial generalizations, I have to use them to, in order to address their points. If you claim otherwise, please explain.

2. I've been tip-toeing about these issues for a while now, but when all I see is whining and guilt-tripping, it gets to an "enough is enough" point. I am not racially insensitive. I am absolutely aware that black gay men face issues and problems that I will never face. But I DO know something about ostracizing, discrimination and femmephobia and I won't call pink "yellow", just to avoid being a little bit politically incorrect. There is a lot of self-victimization among the colored gay population of JUB, and as someone who has always firmly defended minorities on here, I do feel I have the right to call it out sometimes.

 

[The Fly]

On the Real Housewives of Atlanta, for example, there have been three feminine, black gay men featured prominently as friends of the Housewives. You don't see masculine, gay black men featured on there because they are in the closet!

Totally wrong! You don't see masculine gay men (of any race) featured as friends of housewives because masculine men have enough pride to refuse to be portrayed as a lifestyle accessory for straight woman.

 

[Rolyo85]

Totally wrong! You don't see masculine gay men (of any race) featured as friends of housewives because masculine men have enough pride to refuse to be portrayed as a lifestyle accessory for straight woman.

Well, in general, he is not totally wrong, but totally right. And again with the offensiveness of "feminine men have no pride". Shame on you.

Beneath the femmephobia though, you are sorta right - masculine men rarely have enough interests to be the sort of friends to straight women that mainstream culture likes to show. As a side not, I've never been close friends with girls, and I find it weird when most of my gay friends' besties are females...

 

[Rolyo85]

Rolyo, I'm perplexed that you said the black community has a lot of growing up to do in light of the fact that most black people wouldn't agree that Rupaul is as courageous as Rosa Parks.

What do you expect white people would say if you said Harvey Milk was as courageous as George Washington and Susan B. Anthony?

Actually I said it in light of their femmephobia and overblown reverence to masculinity, not about RuPaul.

And Milk WAS as courageous as those two

 

[The Fly]

Well, in general, he is not totally wrong, but totally right. And again with the offensiveness of "feminine men have no pride". Shame on you.

Beneath the femmephobia though, you are sorta right - masculine men rarely have enough interests to be the sort of friends to straight women that mainstream culture likes to show. As a side not, I've never been close friends with girls, and I find it weird when most of my gay friends' besties are females...

Please...enough with the femmephobia bullshit. I'm neither fearful of, nor hateful toward, feminine guys. I fully support, and would defend, their right to live their lives any way they please, but I'm not bringing them fishing with me.
And don't make up quotes, I never posted "feminine guys have no pride". Shame on YOU.

 

[Rolyo85]

I'm not disagreeing - I'm just saying that most white people wouldn't agree with us on that.

Most GAY white people would. Aren't most black people on here gay?

 

[Rolyo85]

Please...enough with the femmephobia bullshit. I'm neither fearful of, nor hateful toward, feminine guys. I fully support, and would defend, their right to live their lives any way they please, but I'm not bringing them fishing with me.
And don't make up quotes, I never posted "feminine guys have no pride". Shame on YOU.

"Masculine guys don't do what feminine guys do because they have pride" = "feminine guys have no pride". It's your own words, not mine.

 

[The Fly]

"Masculine guys don't do what feminine guys do because they have pride" = "feminine guys have no pride". It's your own words, not mine.

My own words? I never said either of those statements, Stop using quotation marks in a lame attempt to assign thoughts, position, or motives to others. Show me where you got those quotes from. You may interpret my statements anyway you wish, but your interpretations are not my statements.
If you disagree with my position on something that's fine, but the fact that you continue to , shall we say embellish, my statements is dishonest at best.
Aren't you in college? Didn't they teach you what a quote is? Is this possibly a clown college? Maybe the University of hair and nails?
You're feminine feathers were ruffled.........tuff. Intentionally misquoting someone is the same as lying, unless you can show where I said/posted those statements, word for word, knock it off.

 

[Phantas33]

I think it's time for a recap of what the topic is really about:

OP posted that, in his opinion, on randomly checking in on tv programs, he perceived that black gay men were almost solely depicted as feminine or effeminate. He furthermore made the mention that he'd like to see more masculine black gay men on tv instead.

Somewhere along the line, the accusations of "Femmephobia" went around, and we all got into a heated debate.

Now, unless I inadvertently left anything out here, AM I ALLOWED to ask what the OP suggests should be done about this? Perhaps the OP has an idea why masculine gay men aren't depicted more often? Or in less stereotypical roles? Same can be said for effeminate gay men, but IMHO that's almost asking effeminate gay men to not be the way they are

Does the OP have a problem with effeminate black gay men or not? Does the OP have any hope that the current situation will change?

I'm asking these questions because I want to know - the only reason I can think of that this topic was started was perhaps to find like-minded people, but unfortunately I think the topic has grown into a rather lively debate about the pros and cons of effeminate gay men [black or not]. All that aside, if the OP has no idea whether he can change the current situation or help his fellow, presumably closeted black, masculine gay men along towards a certain goal... I wonder what was his original intention? Other than getting caught up in this debate that is.

I'm done spouting my opinion about it, and I won't repeat it again if it falls on deaf ears that are not willing to listen to perfectly sound advice [all racial issues aside]. BY this I do not suggest that the OP or anyone in this thread is unwilling, but just to say that I've said what I had to say in order to try and help the OP overcome whatever issue he is having.

Thank you and goodnight...

 

[The Fly]

I think it's time for a recap of what the topic is really about:

Your right, my apologies to the OP.
I think what the op is saying, he can correct me if I'm wrong, is that the gay black characters depicted in the media are of a basic stereotype, that being flamboyantly queeny (for lack of better description). I guess it's kind of "the chicken or the egg", If there are only five gay characters you're aware of, and they're all similar in portrayal (fem), it would seem that all the roles are set up that way. But if you had 5,000 gay characters and 200 were the "snap queens" it wouldn't have the same appearance.
I guess it just comes down to quantity vs. quality, you get a greater quality of representation when you have greater quantity of characters.
At least that's how I see it.

 

[DigitalFudge]

Gary is actually a member on this forum. I'm not gonna tell you who though.

you.

The plot thickens

 

[Rolyo85]

My own words? I never said either of those statements, Stop using quotation marks in a lame attempt to assign thoughts, position, or motives to others. Show me where you got those quotes from. You may interpret my statements anyway you wish, but your interpretations are not my statements.
If you disagree with my position on something that's fine, but the fact that you continue to , shall we say embellish, my statements is dishonest at best.
Aren't you in college? Didn't they teach you what a quote is? Is this possibly a clown college? Maybe the University of hair and nails?
You're feminine feathers were ruffled.........tuff. Intentionally misquoting someone is the same as lying, unless you can show where I said/posted those statements, word for word, knock it off.

Lol, sugarplum, "clown college"? Seriously? What are you, twelve? Judging by the misuse of "you're" and "your", I wouldn't be surprised. For the record, I am so annoyingly masculine that even with a rainbow bracelet on at all times, people still don't get that I'm gay.

But to answer your question:

My own words? I never said either of those statements, Stop using quotation marks in a lame attempt to assign thoughts, position, or motives to others. Show me where you got those quotes from.

Gladly. Here it is:

Totally wrong! You don't see masculine gay men (of any race) featured as friends of housewives because masculine men have enough pride to refuse to be portrayed as a lifestyle accessory for straight woman.

Now, I can see the possibility (especially after the "clown college" thing) that you aren't really aware of how the logic of your post works, and that you weren't intending it to sound the way it did, but the fact remains that you DID say it. The meaning is easy to follow:

1. Feminine gay men are portrayed as a lifestyle accessory for straight women.
2. Masculine gay men are not portrayed as a lifestyle accessory for straight women.
3. The reason masculine gay men are not portrayed as a lifestyle accessory for straight women is that they have enough pride to refuse it.

Therefore:
4. Feminine gay men are portrayed as a lifestyle accessory for straight women because they don't have the necessary amount of pride to refuse it.


Again, maybe that's not how you wanted it to sound. But the implication is clear as day, in your post, with your words. I am not misinterpreting anything. If you can't follow the logic of your own posts, maybe you should reconsider participating in serious threads?

 

[The Fly]

Your whole post is garbage. A quote is a word for word report of a statement, you don't have that. What you have is a emotional response to anyone that you believe to be a threat to your perception of what a just and fair gay community should be.
Word for word, actual quotes, show 'em or shut up.