TrumpCo. to build tent cities for kids separated from families

[mikey3000]

What? One individual? It's the thousands and thousands that you speak of. How about those unaccompanied minors? Those kids literally get abandoned at the border by their parent(s) knowing perfectly well that the U.S. will not immediately deport children. It's the parents that are separating families, not the U.S. government. We do the same in Canada.

"

In the past year, Canada has seen bursts of U.S.-based immigrants crossing illegally into Canada, mostly into the Quebec province that borders New York and other northeastern U.S. states.

In August, Royal Canadian Mounted Police caught more than 5,500 people trying to illegally cross from the U.S. Those were mostly Haitian immigrants who will soon lose Temporary Protected Status as part of the Trump administration's phase-out of the TPS program that has protected more than 300,000 people from countries struck by war and natural disasters.

Only about 8% of their asylum application have been approved, however, meaning the vast majority have been turned down and are being deported straight back to their home countries.

Original source link: Canada warns immigrants in U.S. about heading north of the border (USA Today; June 8, 2018)

" (emphasis added)

 

[KaraBulut]

So the woman kidnaps her daughter without her hubby's consent, flees and enters another country illegally. Do you not think that illegal immigrants should not be detained at the border? Should they just be given free entry? Honestly, what do you think?

I've been to several of the countries in question. I think we need to work on helping develop those countries so that there are jobs and security. Unless you've been to those countries, you have no idea of why they're coming here. It's a matter of life or death for many of them.

Unless you know someone who has been through the legal immigration system, you will also have no concept of what a ridiculous process it is. It generally takes 10 years and can cost upwards of $20K. These are people who can't wait 10 years and who don't have the kind of money it takes to go through the process. That also needs to be fixed.

 

[mikey3000]

I've been to several of the countries in question. I think we need to work on helping develop those countries so that there are jobs and security. Unless you've been to those countries, you have no idea of why they're coming here. It's a matter of life or death for many of them.

Unless you know someone who has been through the legal immigration system, you will also have no concept of what a ridiculous process it is. It generally takes 10 years and can cost upwards of $20K. These are people who can't wait 10 years and who don't have the kind of money it takes to go through the process. That also needs to be fixed.

My family came to Canada as refugees to escape the Holodomor in Ukraine, So we know what it's like. Most who immigrated to North America were escaping something for a better life, I get it, I do. But there has to be structure to the immigration, you just can't open the borders. If a country doesn't defend it's borders, then it is no longer a country.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

My family came to Canada as refugees to escape the Holodomor in Ukraine, So we know what it's like. Most who immigrated to North America were escaping something for a better life, I get it, I do. But there has to be structure to the immigration, you just can't open the borders. If a country doesn't defend it's borders, then it is no longer a country.

Yeah, then it's just a piece of land, which is what it was before men with guns came and bloodied up the landscape to turn it into a country. You say you get it then in the next breath talk about immigration like it's a roach infestation

 

[KaraBulut]

My family came to Canada as refugees to escape the Holodomor in Ukraine, So we know what it's like. Most who immigrated to North America were escaping something for a better life, I get it, I do. But there has to be structure to the immigration, you just can't open the borders. If a country doesn't defend it's borders, then it is no longer a country.

Do you know whether they came legally? How many years and how much money did they have to spend getting citizenship? Chances are that they came and the Canadians took them in and provided a easy path to citizenship. During this period, the US was slow-walking immigrants from Russia and Eastern Europe (particularly Jewish refugees), so many of them went to Canada. And more than a few of them crossed over the Canadian-US border later.

This isn't only about a better life for some of the immigrants from Central America. The drug cartels work by getting teenage boys addicted to drugs and then exploiting their addiction to get them to work for the gangs that provide the labor for the cartels.

Paying Attention to Central America’s Drug Trafficking Crisis [Brookings]

Never a sedate place, Central America has seen a massive deterioration of its crime indicators in the recent past. In the past decade, homicide rates have gone up in every country in the region, in some cases dramatically. The northern half of the Isthmus, comprising Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, is now the most violent region in the world outside of active war zones. In 2009, Guatemala and Honduras had, each of them, more murders than the 27 countries of the European Union combined. Even in the safer southern half of the region, crime figures have taken a turn for the worse, with homicide rates increasing sharply in Costa Rica (63%) and Panama (140%) in the past 5 years, according to official sources.

There is hardly any doubt that the narcotics trade is behind the trend. Approximately 40% of the total number of murders are directly connected to drug trafficking in Guatemala, where, according to some estimates, more than one-third of the territory (particularly the unforgiving forests of Petén in the north) is under effective control of criminal organizations. The narcotics maelstrom engulfing the region cannot be underestimated. According to United Nations figures, cocaine seizures in Central America have grown six-fold in the past decade. Remarkably, since 2007, countries in the Isthmus have confiscated more than 3 times as much cocaine as confiscated in Mexico – about 100 metric tons per year.

The stereotype that got promulgated by Trump and his followers is the Mexican stereotype- that these are low-skilled workers coming to the US to take low-paying jobs (those low-paying jobs that Americans want ).

The "other than Mexicans" (OTMs) that have been coming to the border from Central America is a different group- OTMs are in a situation where they stay and lose their children to drugs and crime or they pack everyone up, trek hundreds of miles in blazing heat to get to the US border and when they arrive, they are asking for asylum in the US.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

What? One individual? It's the thousands and thousands that you speak of. How about those unaccompanied minors? Those kids literally get abandoned at the border by their parent(s) knowing perfectly well that the U.S. will not immediately deport children. It's the parents that are separating families, not the U.S. government.

Catch up Mikey, Trump just signed an e.o. to halt what you just said the govt isn't doing. Facts don't hurt, I promise.

 

[gsdx]

The stereotype that got promulgated by Trump and his followers is the Mexican stereotype- that these are low-skilled workers coming to the US to take low-paying jobs (those low-paying jobs that Americans want ).

'Eye roll' indeed, since they are the people he brings in from Mexico to work at Mar-a-Lago and probably his resorts and hotels as well. Lots of people in Florida would love to get a job at Mar-a-Lago, but Trump won't pay the wages they should get. It takes a genuine hypocrite to claim that Mexicans come to the US to take jobs away when Mexicans are virtually the only people he hires to work at his weekend home. Only 1 American worked at Mar-a-Lago last year when we had a discussion about it here.

 

[KaraBulut]

'Eye roll' indeed, since they are the people he brings in from Mexico to work at Mar-a-Lago and probably his resorts and hotels as well. Lots of people in Florida would love to get a job at Mar-a-Lago, but Trump won't pay the wages they should get. It takes a genuine hypocrite to claim that Mexicans come to the US to take jobs away when Mexicans are virtually the only people he hires to work at his weekend home. Only 1 American worked at Mar-a-Lago last year when we had a discussion about it here.

That story (and the story about all the pregnant Russian women renting apartments in Trump properties) somehow is not on the radar for Trump's anti-immigration supporters.

For the record:
Trump wins visas to hire 70 foreign workers at Mar-a-Lago [The Hill]

The Trump Organization has won the permission to hire 70 foreign workers to serve as maids, cooks and servers for the 2017-2018 tourist season, according to data from the U.S. Labor Department.

The Palm Beach Post reported Friday that Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach, Fla., won the permission after first applying for the H-2B* visas in July. The request was originally filed during Trump's "Made In America" week at the White House.

*H2B visas are low-skilled worker visas. When Trump came to office in 2017, he expanded the H2B visa program (the only visa program the Administration expanded).

I wonder how many of those 70 employees would be able to come under a "merit-based" immigration system?

3 Trump properties posted 144 openings for seasonal jobs. Only one went to a US worker. [Vox]

 

[gsdx]

^ I think 'The Hill' segment you cited is the same one I used last year. I didn't know he changed the visa program, though. And your final link shows that I wasn't wrong when I said 'probably' for his resorts and hotels.

He certainly doesn't practice what he preaches.

 

[mikey3000]

This isn't only about a better life for some of the immigrants from Central America. The drug cartels work by getting teenage boys addicted to drugs and then exploiting their addiction to get them to work for the gangs that provide the labor for the cartels.

Paying Attention to Central America’s Drug Trafficking Crisis [Brookings]

.

Isn't that who Trump is trying to keep out? Look what is happening to America? It's getting worse too, and by following the immigration rules, he can keep out the gangs. Look at how many MS13 members have already been rounded up.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Isn't that who Trump is trying to keep out? Look what is happening to America? It's getting worse too, and by following the immigration rules, he can keep out the gangs. Look at how many MS13 members have already been rounded up.

That's a wide net and a vast majority of the people detained are not gang members, just an FYI every hispanic immigrant is NOT a gang member.

 

[opinterph]

Look at how many MS13 members have already been rounded up.

Looks like about a dozen individuals per year that enter the US as unaccompanied alien children are suspected or confirmed to be affiliated with MS-13.

Of the approximately 5,000 individuals apprehended by [The U.S. Border Patrol] with confirmed or suspected gang affiliations since FY 2012 (FY 2012 began on October 1, 2011), 159 were [unaccompanied alien children]. Of those 159, approximately 56 [unaccompanied alien children] were suspected or confirmed to be affiliated with MS-13.

Written testimony of CBP U.S. Border Patrol Acting Chief of Carla Provost for a Senate Committee on the Judiciary hearing titled “The MS-13 Problem: Investigating Gang Membership As Well As Its Nexus to Illegal Immigration, and Assessing Federal Efforts to End the Threat”
(US Department of Homeland Security; June 21, 2017)

 

[KaraBulut]

Isn't that who Trump is trying to keep out? Look what is happening to America? It's getting worse too, and by following the immigration rules, he can keep out the gangs. Look at how many MS13 members have already been rounded up.

As a general rule, most of what Trump says on the subject of immigration is either a warping of the truth or a flat out lie.

MS13 is a gang that started in Los Angeles in the 1980s. It spread to Central America as the gang setup drug and human smuggling operations into the US. Over the past 40 years, what started as a street gang of Central American immigrants has turned into a big operation like the Mafia. No one talked about shutting down immigration from Sicily and Italy because the mafia was Italian-American families. Italians weren't immigrating to the US to join the Mafia; OTMs aren't coming to the US to join Latino gangs.

The OTM immigrants who are coming here are trying get their families away from gangs like MS13. Trump (and Fox News) are trying to use the immigration issue to fire up their base and they're using MS13 (which most Americans have never heard of) to portray immigrants as gang members, rapists, criminals, etc.

The fact that the people coming to the border have children with them should be a clue that they're not gang members. The fact that teenagers are being sent alone by their families to the US is also an indicator that they're desperate to get their kids out of the situation in Central America. If you read some of the stories from law enforcement, the Central American gangs are the people doing the human trafficking and they're the ones who are abusing the citizens of these countries- the very citizens who are fleeing the US in hopes of getting away from the gangs.

 

[mikey3000]

Here's a little more background on MS13 FYI:

https://cis.org/Report/MS13-Resurgence-Immigration-Enforcement-Needed-Take-Back-Our-Streets

 

[KaraBulut]

Here's a little more background on MS13 FYI:

https://cis.org/Report/MS13-Resurgence-Immigration-Enforcement-Needed-Take-Back-Our-Streets

And a little more background on the Center for Immigration Studies (which is on the SLPC Hate Group List):

Center for Immigration Studies

Founded in 1985 by John Tanton, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) has gone on to become the go-to think tank for the anti-immigrant movement with its reports and staffers often cited by media and anti-immigrant politicians. CIS’s much-touted tagline is “low immigration, pro-immigrant,” but the organization has a decades-long history of circulating racist writers, while also associating with white nationalists.

You'll get more accurate information from the FBI website. They have a pretty good analysis of the scope of what is a pretty disorganized crime ring and has no real connection to what is happening at the border and the mass interment and transport of immigrant children.

MS-13 operates in at least 42 states and the District of Columbia and has about 6,000-10,000 members nationwide. Currently, the threat is highest in the western and northeastern parts of the country, which coincides with elevated Salvadoran immigrant populations in those areas. In the southeast and central regions, the current threat is moderate to low, but recently, we’ve seen an influx of MS-13 members into the southeast, causing an increase in violent crimes there.

MS-13 members engage in a wide range of criminal activity, including drug distribution, murder, rape, prostitution, robbery, home invasions, immigration offenses, kidnapping, carjackings/auto thefts, and vandalism. Most of these crimes, you’ll notice, have one thing in common—they are exceedingly violent. And while most of the violence is directed toward other MS-13 members or rival street gangs, innocent citizens often get caught in the crossfire.

</derail>

 

[gsdx]

And a little more background on the Center for Immigration Studies (which is on the SLPC Hate Group List):

I should have guessed. I should have Googled it myself.

 

[novastar]

http://www.mcclatchy-wires.com/inco...NDSCAPE_1140/Immigration_Fact_Check_82203.jpg

All I can say is thank goodness, something is finally being done to improve conditions in the concentration camps currently housed inside abandoned Walmarts.

I don't think any of us thought that the US would end up at this point.

I think the stories that parents have been told when their kids are separated from them that they are just being taken to have a shower is beyond cruel and morally bankrupt.

I can't even begin to imagine the permanent psychological damage that Trump's policy of tearing children away from their parents is inflicting on many of these very young children.

I can't even believe that in good conscience, I am applauding the notion that a tent city concentration camp is a better thing to do then what is being done right now.

I somehow think that this is how the good, compliant citizens of the US and Canada went along with camps for Japanese citizens in WWII....or how the good people of Germany and Europe were lulled into accepting the concentration camps for Jews, gypsies and homosexuals.

http://amp.mcclatchydc.com/news/pol...ticle213026379.html?__twitter_impression=true

For God's sake man, if I commit a crime with my kids, they'll be taken away, too. You do realize 4 times as many Mexicans send their children over BY THEMSELVES?

 

[TX-Beau]

For God's sake man, if I commit a crime with my kids, they'll be taken away, too. You do realize 4 times as many Mexicans send their children over BY THEMSELVES?

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!

No genius when you get convicted you go to jail, your kids don't get put in cages as punishment.

 

[KaraBulut]

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!

No genius when you get convicted you go to jail, your kids don't get put in cages as punishment.

You forgot to mention that crossing the border is a misdemeanor and even in a crazy place like Texas, they don't ship people's kids to jails in New York and Florida over their parents' misdemeanor charge.

Oh- and if they're seeking asylum, it's not even a misdemeanor. The US is a signatory to the Geneva Convention which details how asylum seekers are handled. It's why the US takes in Christian refugees seeking asylum from places like Syria and Iraq (without putting their kids in jail).

Speaking of Texas....

Immigrant toddlers ordered to appear in court alone [Texas Tribune]

As the White House faces court orders to reunite families separated at the border, immigrant children as young as 3 years old are being ordered into court for their own deportation proceedings, according to attorneys in Texas, California and Washington, D.C.

 

[gsdx]

The US is a signatory to the Geneva Convention which details how asylum seekers are handled.

You mean Trump hasn't withdrawn from that yet?

Joking aside, though, why should he honour anything like the Geneva Convention when he won't even honour his own Constitution? Is there a chapter in 'The Art of the Deal' entitled 'Deals are Made to be Broken'?