Trying so hard to get him

[crubbed]

Hey, hotb0d. Congratulations! I am very happy for you and your man. He must really love you, and I'm sure you have a bright future ahead of you. I hope I'll be struck by the same luck. Yesterday I couldn't sleep, so I wrote him a letter where I came clean. Obviously I didn't send it. But it was cathartic. I doubt I'll ever send it. I think it would be selfish on my part. It will not help us to be together, it will not help us to be apart since we already are, so what is it going to do? It will just scare him, and worsen his mistrust towards people. It would be selfish and it would create drama. A part of me lives on drama, and I don't want to feed it. This time I want to do the right thing.

I have to ask though....do you actually like this Mark? Or is it the feeling or idea of liking someone?

I am not sure I understand the question. I like what I've known of him via our chat sessions. I like his looks. I like his mannerisms, and what I've seen of him via my spying sessions. I am also in love with the idea of being in love, and sharing your bed with someone and all of that. I've never done that and I am dying to find out what it is like.

Nope, I'm just a visual person and so I like to see pictures of the people / places I'm discussing. I think that appearances help to understand/empathize with people to a strong degree - read a book by it's cover, if you will. Like when I bitched and moaned on this site about friends, I included a picture because I think it helps people to "know" me better and understand my situation more clearly.

Ok, I did not get it. I am a visual person too. But I have no pics of him, and as far as I go... well, I still have Armand's pics if you want LOL Just kidding.

I'm glad to hear it. This is the direction that's healthy and good for you. Get to know him and forget about Mark. This guy has seen you for who you are and likes you. You haven't lied to him about anything so you have nothing to hide so you're not stuck in a messy situation like with Mark.

You'll get over Mark sooner or later. The quicker you distance yourself from him and meet other guys, the quicker you'll get over him. You're wasting your time dwelling on him and it's not going anywhere. Sage is your new start and if he doesn't work, just move on to someone else. Don't give up and keep trying and sooner or later you'll find your match.

Thank you for your words. Sage is the hottest guy I've ever found on the net. His attitude just bugs me a little. He always tries to be original, and creative and non-obvious. Sometimes he just tries too hard, and he seems to live on another planet. Or he makes me think that. I never understood what was on his mind. That's why I did not spend my time on him in the first place. But now that I have nothing else... we'll see how it evolves.

Thanks guys. You don't even know me -- still, you found the time to read all of my stupid ramblings. I'll read a book today. Can't remember the title. It's about a gay couple. I read a few pages at the bookstore this morning. What I read seemed taken out of my mind. Apparently the book says the exact words I need to hear right now. This morning I was torn between that book and another book, a murder mystery. I was hesitant because the first one was so gay, everyone who would have seen it would have jumped to the right conclusions about me. So I didn't buy either of them. But then I realized... OMG things are bad if you ain't even able to make up your mind about a book. Geez. I'm gonna go out and buy it now.

 

[hotb0d]

LOL. well actually me and him are just friends now. Turned out he doesn't have the same feelings that I have for him. His feelings were more of a friend, a confidant, a brother that he can tell his secrets to. I just misread it or interpreted how I wanted to interpret it.

 

[crubbed]

LOL. well actually me and him are just friends now. Turned out he doesn't have the same feelings that I have for him. His feelings were more of a friend, a confidant, a brother that he can tell his secrets to. I just misread it or interpreted how I wanted to interpret it.

Ouch! that's too bad. But you don't seem in any kind of pain. I take it you've taken it with philosophy. That's great. Maybe he wasn't the right one from the get-go, or maybe he'll come around eventually. Either way it looks like these fake aliases cause more harm than good.

 

[JarodA]

Crubbed, I still don't think you should've chickened out of asking Mark out.

 

[spencer]

if you had interest in a bartender, you should have went to the bar after work, get a drink and talk about your hard day. you could have done this repeatedly without coming across as a stalker because guys do this everywhere. in those conversations you should have subtly gotten to know him better. after establishing a bartender/customer friendship you should have asked him to maybe hang out then go from there.

I don't know if you can try to get to that now because of the creepiness you've established thusfar, but instead of all the tricks and deceptiveness it would have been better to just try to be a friendly personable normal guy.

 

[hotb0d]

You're right. I'm not in any kind of pain at all, I'm actually really happy of how everything turned out. The weights on my shoulders are gone, I can finally relax and just be a good friend to him. I shouldn't be greedy about the whole becoming boyfriends thing, I thanks lady luck that he still want to talk to me after all the lies.

 

[crubbed]

Crubbed, I still don't think you should've chickened out of asking Mark out.

You know, Jarod, I think it's amazing how someone from New Zealand can influence my actions. Once I read your words, I said to myself... 'he's right. I was a coward'. So, I put my new 'plan' into motion.

On Friday, a girlfriend of mine asked me out to take a bite. Lo and behold, we ended up in his bar. I admit I sorta planned it. We acted all lovey dovey, and I explained part of the story to her. She was shocked, but also rooting for me. My goal was to erase my 'stalker' look and start fresh, as a normal person. Hopefully even straight, since Mark likes straight-acting males better. That's why I made sure everyone saw me and my girlfriend (who is a marvellous human being, BTW. Such a sweet and intelligent person). Frida, the bitchy waitress, served us. I made a point of giving her a generous tip for her services, and to make her like me. She smiled like a crocodile. I don't want to be mean, but she's really ugly. Ugh. Well, at least after that she stopped badmouthing me. My fag hag and I left the bar in each other's arms.

On Saturday, my plan was to stop Mark at the entrance door. I arrived about 1 hour before his shift, but I was in for a big WTF moment, because he came earlier and I saw him in front of me out of the blue. I was speechless. He was not supposed to arrive 'till an hour later. I was not ready. So I just said 'HI...' (looking dumbfounded), and he said 'Hey!' (smiling).

On Sunday, my plan was the very same, the only difference is that I arrived 2 hours earlier to catch him in time in case he would came earlier again. I waited for 3 long hours, he did not come. I had an awful headache. I decided to leave. But before I did that, I took a look at the bar and saw him. He was there. Maybe his shift had started way earlier that day. Or maybe he came in from somewhere else (doubtful, there's only one entrance). Again, I was extremely tired and sorry for myself.

But here comes today.

I went back to the bar, at the tables. I was positive he had the day off, because he had been working for many days in a row. I was sure it was gonna be a bust today as well. So I just said to myself "I'm just gonna spend some time at that bar... and that's it". But he arrived. I was like 'Okay. I will not look at him, so they won't think I'm stalking anyone'. I was all about the book I was reading.

He joined me at the tables, to rearrange them and clean them. Needless to say, I was sitting at a very dirty table (someone spilled their ice cream). I said 'hi' with his hand. I said 'Hello', with the weirdest and emotionless voice ever. It was the right time, I felt it. I didn't wanna go home disappointed again. I told him:
'I should probably get up... this table is quite dirty'.
'Don't worry I'll take care of it... Many kids come in the morning'
'But there isn't anyone to clean after them in the morning?', I asked.
'I am the only one willing to do that... because I like it', he commented with sarcasm.
'You're also the only one who checks the trash bins', I acknowledged, since I worked as a waiter, and I know what it means.
'Yeah...'.

I had to make the conversation continue.

'Hum, do you have a second?'
'Yeah...'
'You know... you have a familiar face. But I don't know where I might have seen you' (obviously I was playing with the fact that he secretly posted a pic of him on the gay dating site)
He was taken aback.
'Huh... Maybe around town, you know. Some places'.
'Nah, I doubt that. I'm not from here, I don't hang around a lot'.
By that sentence he had moved away, to another table. I got up and fucking followed him.

'You know, about that... As I said I'm not from here, so I thought it would be good if I made some friends who know the town... so, uhm, if you want to grab something after work...' [I'm not from here, that's true. What I didn't tell him, is that I've been living here for 3 years now]
'Yeah, actually I go to sleep after I'm done here because I'm quite tired' (it's a lie. He told Armand he always goes out and has fun after work, and it is stressing him out) 'Sometimes I go out with my friend from here' (I hope he didn't mean Frida The Bitch) 'She has a car... I will let you know, no prob. I'll see you here'
'Well, actually I won't be able to come by anymore. I'm starting a new job tomorrow, so this is my last day here' (it's not true, there is no new job. But I had to make sure he knew that I wouldn't harrass him at his workplace).

He asked me where I was from. Turns out he'll be spending a week at my hometown on vacation starting from August 7. The same days I'll be there, at home with my family. Gosh!

'Well, then... write down your number on a piece of paper', he told me.

He didn't know I was holding that piece of paper in my left hand. But I didn't tell him. I tore off another piece of paper and wrote down my cell number [my paranoid self is worrying that I was so shaky that I didn't write it correctly... and maybe all is lost]
'Here it is'.
'Great. What is your name again? I'm Mark'.
I told him my name. I smiled, he smiled. I left.

While I was at the bus stop, I saw him come. He was carrying a wheelbarrow full of trash. I smiled. He told me 'Look what they make me do!'. I told him 'You're a slave', smiling. He went to throw the trash away. The bus arrived. I got on it. The bus left. I turned back and I wasn't there any longer.

And that's it.

I'm happy it's done. I did what I had to do. I wasted 20 days --20 days-- over this silly mission. I did everything in my power. Thanks to your kick in the butt, guys. The rest is in fate's hands.

 

[spencer]

Dude, you gotta stop making up shit. You were doing better by striking up a conversation with the guy. You could have used your covert information to strike up good conversations. When he turned you down you could have said, perhaps a relaxing cup of coffee would help you destress from a day at this crazy place, or maybe a change of pace at this happening bar I know.

Then he said, he'd see you around here and you lied about the job. What if he said, that's too bad you're not gonna be around as much, would you have lied again?

IMO, you can still go every once in awhile (like in 3 weeks) and say hello. Say, hey you remember me. How's work going and ask if he's gone out lately.

His coworkers get it that you hang out there for 3 hours and probably tell him. Maybe you can erase that.

You have good intentions, but you're not a very good liar, so just be more genuine and less delayed. Like I said, you know about his dislikes and likes from your online conversations. talk about his likes, but not too specific, he'll catch on.

I do think it's better to move on and chalk it up as practice.

 

[CenTex22]

Still more lies and still more deceit.

See someone about it.

You cannot have a healthy relationship if you feel the need (which you obviously do) to create an alternate reality or use "little white lies" everywhere to make situations more like you would like them to be.

What did you do differently as "Armand" that made him like you more than he lies the "in real life" you? Because, let's be honest, he pretty much declined your offers.

 

[Fishstix]

Don't expect more than being just friends. That should be enough. If you get to know each other better and he comes out to you and makes a move then maybe you should go for it but I don't think in this situation you should expect more. Especially since he's moving pretty soon. You're young, you have plenty of time and your whole life to find someone.

If you contact him, don't over do it to the point where he thinks you're stalking him. Just ask if he wants to schedule a time to hang out and leave it to him to respond. If he doesn't respond, he's not interested.

 

[crubbed]

I'm not going to go to the bar ever again, I'm done with this experience. I certainly won't stalk him.

Yes, I said little white lies here and there to make the conversation flow. I don't see the problem, really. They served as a little push. There was no other way we could talk, since he's so freakin' elusive. Had he been different, maybe I could have tried. But I felt I had to play all my cards right.

24 hrs have gone by and he hasn't called. That's okay, I get it. At least I know I did everything I could do.

 

[JarodA]

Hi Crubbed.

Look I'm glad you gave it another go. I'm sorry it doesn't seem to have worked out for you though.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>Yes, I said little white lies here and there to make the conversation flow. I don't see the problem, really.

"Yeah, that shirt looks good on you" is a little white lie.
"I got a new job and I'm moving away" is a fucking whopper.

I want you to go back through your posts, and highlight everywhere where you see this guy actually connecting with you. Because he did. I see twice during that last visit. Once when you were discussing cleaning tables. Once when he was hauling trash outside. Note that at those times, you were being you. You weren't Armaud, smooth talker and hot guy about town. You weren't the guy who showed up early trying to "stumble" into a conversation with him. You weren't the guy who was moving out of town. You were just you. A guy who also worked restaurants, and found a bit of common ground there.

There's a lesson there. Please learn it.

Lex

 

[Kyanimal]

He was taken aback.
'Huh... Maybe around town, you know. Some places'.
'Nah, I doubt that. I'm not from here, I don't hang around a lot'.
By that sentence he had moved away, to another table. I got up and fucking followed him.

'You know, about that... As I said I'm not from here, so I thought it would be good if I made some friends who know the town... so, uhm, if you want to grab something after work...' [I'm not from here, that's true. What I didn't tell him, is that I've been living here for 3 years now]

'Well, actually I won't be able to come by anymore. I'm starting a new job tomorrow, so this is my last day here' (it's not true, there is no new job. But I had to make sure he knew that I wouldn't harrass him at his workplace).

He asked me where I was from. Turns out he'll be spending a week at my hometown on vacation starting from August 7.

24 hrs have gone by and he hasn't called. That's okay, I get it. At least I know I did everything I could do.

All too often those "little white lies" dig much bigger holes than we usually expect. Of course he hasn't called, because you convinced him that you two won't be in the same area until his vacation!

Even if he was "interested", though I think he was just being friendly, by the time he does go on vacation it's quite possible for him to loose, or forget, not necessarily on purpose, that note with your number on it.

Any kind of intentional deceit, big, small, "considerate", for whatever reason, is not only manipulative, but, most often, backfires.

Relax! Just be You. How else can you get a true "reading", of what others are thinking, if they aren't reacting to the "Real Deal"?

 

[crubbed]

I did not say I would move out of town, I said I would not visit the bar in the future because of a 'new job' (which, for all he knows, might have gone awry in the meantime). It was clear that I was staying in town.

You are right, Lex, in those circumstances I was being me, and he was being himself. The problem is that I was too impatient, I think. I wanted it all, and now. I was tired of waiting. Maybe the reason is that I have been waiting for 22+ years. That's why I pushed things. I know I was wrong and I know that karma will make me pay the consequences.

Regarding the lies... Yeah, I have a problem with those. I'm like the Catcher in the Rye of the new millennium. But they also come with the fact that I'm closeted. Trust me, I'd love to come out. But I'm not ready, my life is not ready for me to come out. Since I've been lying for all this time, it has gotten easier. I know it's not an excuse, but at least it's an explanation.

Anyway thank you for your patience listening to me, from the bottom of my heart. I appreciate it a lot. I doubt I'll ever hear from him. That makes me a little sad. I keep looking at my cellphone and I am pathetic. But I'll get over it, I know.

 

[G-Lexington]

As you've stated, you've got excuses rather than reasons. It's good that you recognize the difference. But the next step is to change your behavior so you won't need either one. Resolve to move so that you won't have to excuse or rationalize your behavior. It's possible that if you went in there, chatted with him, and asked him out, you'd still be in the same spot - with a phone number but no contact. But in that instance, there'd be no questions. You could honestly say "I did all I could", and feel good about yourself. And even when the guy doesn't call, that's still a great feeling.

Lex

 

[Kyanimal]

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was being critical. I am sincerely only trying to "teach", for lack of a better word at the moment. (As I've gotten older, the "right" words have been eluding me more often. )

I'm a P.K. (Preacher's Kid), from an entire extended family of ministers! I live at least 500mi. away from home just to avoid their "Public", given the familiarity of my last name, in an entire State, and then some, even to this day!

Growing up, I was raised as a little "Diplomat", right down to the nuances of tone of voice, facial expressions, body stance, personal space, etc., etc., not to mention the actual words spoken. The "Honor" of the Family Name was Paramount. "GAWD" I Hated that!! ... though I was quite good at it. I was in a Personal closet even before I realized I was Gay, on top of everything else!!

I am telling YOU this, because I want you to understand that this is coming from a former Master of the "elusive truth", the indirect innuendo, the slight "bending" of actuality, the evasive comments, and, yes!, those "little white lies".

For your own sake, and those around you, STOP IT, as soon as you can! (And, trust me, I know that's not as easy as it sounds, once you've fallen into it, and it's become like a second nature.) Oh ... it might work quite well for a moment, and might even get you what you think you might want, but, eventually, it's going to eat a huge hole into your own being, and raises the risk of all that you've managed to "build" to come crashing down around your ears.

"To thine own self be true ..." "What a tangled web we weave ..." "Do not judge ..." "If it sounds like a duck ..." ad nauseum, are not "just" cliches. They all hold a nugget of Truth. And THAT is what your Life should be about! Highs, Lows, and ALL!

Of course ... no matter what ...

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

 

[Kyanimal]

I did not say I would move out of town, I said I would not visit the bar in the future because of a 'new job' (which, for all he knows, might have gone awry in the meantime). It was clear that I was staying in town.

That is from YOUR perspective. Just sayin' ...

We can never know, for sure, what others might think, even given our best attempts to get them to do so.

It's always best to not even to try to "Control", because when we do, what we get back might likely be 180 degrees from what we expect. Those "others" can be SO unpredictable!

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

 

[crubbed]

My lies and my antics have been such a huge part of my life, I don't know if I could ever get rid of them. I lie to my parents, I lie to my teachers in order to get the marks I want, I'm basically a lost cause. But after reading your posts I'm starting to wonder whether these lies are the ones that are digging the hole inside of me that I feel, and that I try to fulfil with Marks, Sages, Sachas or whatever. This hole is so empty that I feel it's devouring me. Some deep soul searching is in order for me. Well, anyway. Sorry for the OT pitiful rant.

 

[spencer]

Make a new friend or even an online friend, be completely honest to that friend. Start small.