Tyler Clementi

[TriBi]

I hope you've all noticed that JUB has demonstrated its support by deleting Tyler's thread from the Garden of Memories forum as part of a "housekeeping" exercise.

ulom, the reply you actually received from another Mod when you enquired about the loss of that thread (& in fact, the majority of those in the Garden of Memories) was rather more extensive and read as follows: "There has been some housekeeping done and we've lost a good number of posts including some from the Garden of Memories. I really don't know anymore than that".

I'm afraid none of us has added to that because, quite simply, we don't know any more.

You will recall that there had recently been a lot of complaints about how slow the site was. The owners and managers of the site (as opposed to volunteer mods) then took some steps to try to reduce the strain on the database and speed things up. Unfortunately, as we have seen on odd occasions before, actions like that can have unintended consequences. A prior 'database error' saw a lot of people lose records of old PMs (myself included). When we last upgraded the version of vBulletin being used there were all sorts of consequences - threads being lost, appearing in completely different forums - all sorts of weird things. I have zero knowledge of what goes on in these sorts of situations - and even Corny could only speculate. I guess we were all hoping that those missing Garden of Memories threads would be found somewhere - but that, now, seems highly unlikely to be the case. If the PTB had chance of recovering them I rather think they would have done so.

I am as sorry as everyone else to see something like this happen - but I don't know of anything that can be done to bring them back - and I guess the owners, who have the access and controls to these sort of things, don't either.

 

[Kulindahr]

I asked. The answer is, as I said, is "housekeeping". Personally, I think that's a poor show.

It's despicable. Taking it down during the trial would be one thing, but just dumping it? Disgusting.

 

[Kulindahr]

ulom, the reply you actually received from another Mod when you enquired about the loss of that thread (& in fact, the majority of those in the Garden of Memories) was rather more extensive and read as follows: "There has been some housekeeping done and we've lost a good number of posts including some from the Garden of Memories. I really don't know anymore than that".

I'm afraid none of us has added to that because, quite simply, we don't know any more.

You will recall that there had recently been a lot of complaints about how slow the site was. The owners and managers of the site (as opposed to volunteer mods) then took some steps to try to reduce the strain on the database and speed things up. Unfortunately, as we have seen on odd occasions before, actions like that can have unintended consequences. A prior 'database error' saw a lot of people lose records of old PMs (myself included). When we last upgraded the version of vBulletin being used there were all sorts of consequences - threads being lost, appearing in completely different forums - all sorts of weird things. I have zero knowledge of what goes on in these sorts of situations - and even Corny could only speculate. I guess we were all hoping that those missing Garden of Memories threads would be found somewhere - but that, now, seems highly unlikely to be the case. If the PTB had chance of recovering them I rather think they would have done so.

I am as sorry as everyone else to see something like this happen - but I don't know of anything that can be done to bring them back - and I guess the owners, who have the access and controls to these sort of things, don't either.

My bad. Thanks for the clarification.

I would have thought everything got back up before an upgrade, though.

 

[unloadonme]

ulom, the reply you actually received from another Mod when you enquired about the loss of that thread (& in fact, the majority of those in the Garden of Memories) was rather more extensive ...

I wouldn't really agree that the first reply said all that much more than the single word I quoted, but thanks for the fuller explanation. I think we'd all agree that it's a pity it happened and would like to see the threads restored if possible.

 

[quasar]

...I think we'd all agree that it's a pity it happened and would like to see the threads restored if possible.

And that's what I've requested to the office - along with a couple of other issues that are still outstanding.

 

[MTLDude]

The thread was placed in some protected area at the time, (in the garden of memory) but it seems to have disappeared...

 

[mikey3000]

Oh my gosh!!! I had no idea he posted here, though that was way before my time. I was so upset over that incident. I really hope he's at peace.

 

[unloadonme]

MTLDude is right. Clementi's thread was moved to the Garden of Memories forum after his death. A couple of months ago all but one of the threads in that forum disappeared. Quasar posted something suggesting that some of the missing threads might be resurrected in a different format, but that was before the JUB rebuild and I've seen nothing about it since. It's a great shame that the threads from that forum were lost.

 

[PKMO]

This article summarizes it and has a few screenshots:

Is This Webcam Spying Victim Tyler Clementi's Last Call for Help?

Aside from that final thread, the rest of his posting history is still here and searchable.

I didn't really follow the story, I only know some vague details. How did he go from those posts to killing himself? He sounded pissed off in those posts (rightfully so) but he doesn't sound suicidal, and it seemed like he was ready to get the guy in the trouble he deserved. Did something else happen to trigger his suicide? Another part to the story?

 

[Ninja108]

There are often many factors in suicides and I feel there was in Tyler's case as well. However,I believe the webcam spying was the straw that broke the camel's back. It's a shame he couldn't be helped.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Reading that New Yorker article which was referenced in the Ravi thread, the whole timeline and everything, it really surprised me that suicide even was an option. Tyler seemed to be more annoyed than distressed - jumping off the bridge seems to be a decision which just came right out of left-field and blindsided everyone.

-d-

 

[roadtripboy]

I was here during that time. In his postings about the webcam he just seemed up upset. Normal upset not over the top upset. Just like I think any of us would. But, it didn't feel like he was even considering anything like what happened. I and I think most everyone here was devastated. This forum has helped me through so much, I felt like I had let him down. I still can't think about him without tearing up. I hope he's at peace.

 

[G-Lexington]

When he was posting here, I seem to recall that he believed the damage was somewhat limited. He was recorded by his roommate, and maybe he had showed it to a friend. There wasn't any information about having a bunch of people watching it or knowing about it. I think we were advising him to confront his roommate and/or talk to an RA - neither of which seems like something you would advise if "the whole school found out". My memory might not be accurate, though.

Lex

 

[Shepherd 2]

The thread was placed in some protected area at the time, (in the garden of memory) but it seems to have disappeared...

First, Boris is correct, and as usual has good information. Second, most of us here probably are not prepared to accept that things that are not essentially rational can easily be understood. Life is a mystery to be lived, not a puzzle to be solved.

I for one, hope the missing pieces are replaced for their historic value to us here at JUB.
Peace to all of you!
Shep+

 

[roadtripboy]

I'd be pissed off, too, if my sexual encounter got broadcasted for all to see.

Nowadays, I often see people say that the problem with Clementi was deeper than the video thing for him to kill himself and that it wasn't Ravi's fault. While I agree that the problem was deeper than that, Ravi pushed him over the edge.

Consider the following scenario. Suppose I am severely wounded and is lying in the hospital on life support. Then guy X comes along and unhook my life support and I die. He then makes the defense that the problem didn't lie with him unhooking my life support since I was barely hanging on anyway. How does this argument make sense? If it doesn't make sense, how is the argument that Ravi wasn't responsible for pushing Clementi over the edge make sense?

I've seen many interviews with Ravi defending himself. While I agree that he probably did not intend for things to go that far, HE IS STILL RESPONSIBLE. YOU DO NOT BROADCAST SOMEONE'S SEXUAL ENCOUNTER FOR ALL TO SEE. THAT'S JUST COMMON SENSE.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of seeing/hearing people defend Ravi. Just ask yourself this question. Would you have liked it if you found out your sexual encounter was broadcasted against your will?

People can defend Ravi all they want. Ravi was the one who stomped on Clementi's hand when he was hanging on by a finger nail.

I hope you didn't take my comment as defending Ravi. That is LAST thing I would ever do. Ravi is an evil little bastard. I was just trying to say, he never let on how upset he was. What we all know now would have caused me to react differently.

 

[blackbeltninja]

(7) He started trying to cover his tracks after Clementi killed himself. This shows he knew he was responsible.

No, it shows he knew he would be blamed. I think damage control is a perfectly natural and expected reaction when there is likely to be some level of fall-out.

-d-

 

[jackoroe]

We were aware fairly quickly that Tyler was a member and had been posting here. We were also aware that some of what he posted could be considered as evidence so we had to ensure it was preserved. As it turns out, it wasn't needed. The thread then went into the "Garden of Memories" forum. When we did the upgrade, many of the threads disappeared. We're trying to get as many back as possible.

 

[evanrick]

after 18 minutes into the video its clear ravi is a skilled manipulator who will say anything to avoid responsibility which is a horrible character trait many people have. but i also think hes being honest because he does feel guilty for driving tyler to suicide. the problem is ravi was acting out of a societal bias against gays, while ravi may not have had personal animosity against gays or tyler, its the mob mentality that took hold of ravis actions. he clearly was not aware he was pushing tyler towards suicide but that does not excuse his actions either. he acted like a bully yet doesn't feel he did anything wrong. to me there is nothing worse about a bully, nothing that defines a bully more than what ravi did. but it is not all ravis fault, his fault was not knowing better or failing to know that he should know better than to intimidate tyler.
ravi himself might be bisexual or homosexual, we may never know, but if he is at all attracted to men there is probably some internalized homophobia in play as well.
i feel bad for tyler, his parents are clearly homophobes.

 

[evanrick]

No, it shows he knew he would be blamed. I think damage control is a perfectly natural and expected reaction when there is likely to be some level of fall-out.

-d-

id blame his parents as well as ravi. many people are biased against gays, and tyler probably dealt with a lot of it from his parents which probably explains how he got to be so shy and alone. ravi is guilty guilty guilty and its sad that ravi has to pay the consequences for society's bias. if ravi's appeal is successful, it will defeat the purpose of many hate crimes laws and the bulling will start anew.

 

[star-warrior]

It was about a week after Tyler's death that the news surfaced around the end of Sept 2010. I was moderating at the time, and it was hard news to take in. We were very concerned that one of our own members had committed suicide, but by that time there wasn't anything we could have done to alert the authorities to prevent it. It was very sad indeed. In the days that followed, JUB's owners and the legal eagles were in contact with the police.

The thread in which Tyler posting as cit2mo had posted, was first closed to preserve it, and then it eventually moved into the Garden of Memories. Additional discussions were created by various members which later ended up as a humongous thread somewhere and the rest is history.

Shortly thereafter the internet was full of other tragic reports of teens killing themselves and the "It Gets Better" movement took off. JUB owners began an appeal to raise funds and awareness about teen bullying and suicide. As for the case involving Ravi and Molly Wei, well, I'll leave that to others to discuss.


As for new members, I'm sure there were. It generated a lot of media publicity that would have brought JUB to the attention of folks who had never thought or heard that there was such a forum for us like minded folks. In that, I hope that these people also found a haven and outlet from their public lives to feel comfort and relax here.