U.S. rolls back protections for transgender prison inmates

[TickTockMan]

The Trump administration has rolled back protections for transgender prison inmates introduced under former President Barack Obama after some prisoners challenged the policies in court.

An inmate's biological sex will now be used to make the initial decision as to where transgender prisoners are housed, instead of the gender to which they identify, according to a change in guidelines announced on Friday by the U.S. Bureau of Prisons.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-rolls-back-protections-transgender-prison-inmates-163417266.html



Beyond messed up.

 

[NotHardUp1]

I support transgender respect, but prison isn't the norm for society period.

There are a lot more central issues with rights than this. It's the margin of the margin, which isn't the same as the least of the least.

It's just damned peripheral in the big picture.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I support transgender respect, but prison isn't the norm for society period.

There are a lot more central issues with rights than this. It's the margin of the margin, which isn't the same as the least of the least.

It's just damned peripheral in the big picture.

Complete and utter bat shit, prefaced with the obligatory disingenuous "I support transgender respect, but"

''Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

 

[gsdx]

Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged."
(The Drumhead, 1991)

Lieutenant Worf: [referring to Admiral Satie] I believed her. I, I helped her. I did not see what she was.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: Mister Worf, villains who twirl their moustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged.
Lieutenant Worf: I think... after yesterday, people will not be so ready to trust her.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: Maybe. But she, or someone like her, will always be with us, waiting for the right climate in which to flourish, spreading fear in the name of righteousness. Vigilance, Mister Worf - that is the price we have to continually pay.
(The Drumhead, 1991)

 

[ballcaphair]

Complete and utter bat shit, prefaced with the obligatory disingenuous "I support transgender respect, but"

''Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

Being trapped in the wrong gender body, then trapped in a prison system is a bit of a double blow. It would probably drive me mad. Man, that would fu*k with your head.

 

[LeicsDom]

Being trapped in the wrong gender body, then trapped in a prison system is a bit of a double blow. It would probably drive me mad. Man, that would fu*k with your head.

It is a really bad way of addressing a complicated situation

BUT, as we have seen in the UK with the whole self-identification issues, some people are using it to their own ends. We recently had a reported situation where a group of men were refused entry to a club because they wanted more women in (fair enough). So they then said they self identified as women therefore had to be admitted. And were.

There has to be put in place a system whereby a person has to be medically classified as one sex or another when they need to be segregated (i.e. in prison)

Along similar lines - I fail to see what all the fuss about gender neutral toilets is. If all public toilets have only cubicles it doesn't matter who uses them

 

[Pierresro]

I support transgender respect, but prison isn't the norm for society period.

There are a lot more central issues with rights than this. It's the margin of the margin, which isn't the same as the least of the least.

It's just damned peripheral in the big picture.

Save your but. Lots of people good bad or otherwise get in trouble and serve their time however for Gay which I assume you are ? Without protection you would be raped more than shower. Try to walk a mile in some one else shoes eve if you would ever wear them!

 

[NotHardUp1]

Who the fuck are you to walk a mile in anyone's shoes? You took your little pansy feet and left the US and the UK. Keep walking. There are lots more countries to abandon. As if Catalan is a point of pride.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Being trapped in the wrong gender body, then trapped in a prison system is a bit of a double blow. It would probably drive me mad. Man, that would fu*k with your head.

Yeah, I guess you're right. They were probably imprisoned for being transgender, not for knifing someone in a fight, robbing a bank, or anything like that. They are only victims, and not guilty as convicted criminals.

 

[ballcaphair]

Yeah, I guess you're right. They were probably imprisoned for being transgender, not for knifing someone in a fight, robbing a bank, or anything like that. They are only victims, and not guilty as convicted criminals.

Exactly. Like a snake eating its tail.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Yeah, I guess you're right. They were probably imprisoned for being transgender, not for knifing someone in a fight, robbing a bank, or anything like that. They are only victims, and not guilty as convicted criminals.

When the state claims responsibility for inmates that includes general health. Health is affected negatively when prisoners aren't housed correctly. That's regardless of whether the crime committed was actually done.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Yeah, I guess you're right. They were probably imprisoned for being transgender, not for knifing someone in a fight, robbing a bank, or anything like that. They are only victims, and not guilty as convicted criminals.

No, they are human beings. I know people like to conveniently forget that when it comes to someone being a criminal.

 

[peeonme]

What has to be looked at objectively is if treating inmates in this fashion constitutes cruel and unusual punishment. Back when the Bill of Rights was written cruel and unusual took no notice of one's gender identity. Today we do, it is a reality that has to be dealt with.

 

[medic1]

When the state claims responsibility for inmates that includes general health. Health is affected negatively when prisoners aren't housed correctly. That's regardless of whether the crime committed was actually done.

Indeed. Duty of care.

 

[SeaCore]

Luckynumbah7, I don't think I've ever heard your perspective on gender segregation.
What's your opinion on it?

 

[luckynumbah7]

Luckynumbah7, I don't think I've ever heard your perspective on gender segregation.
What's your opinion on it?

Depends on the context. If you mean for prisons I'd think that segregation might be more helpful if it heavily depended on the particulars of the crimes committed and the factors surrounding it. Serial thievery isn't usually similar to serial rape, for instance. Incarceration is (arguably) only supposed to involve the limiting of rights and privileges, it isn't supposed to drop you in a situation where crimes are knowingly allowed to flourish as part of the punishment.

People hold themselves to different standards in what they view as mixed gendered company and many of those standards encourage a concept of community and acting, if not for the well-being of a group, than at least not to its (too-obvious to others) detriment; standards people should be encouraged to emulate during incarceration. People don't usually emulate well what they don't experience and people 'forget' quickly, I think a rigidly & meticulously crafted schedule with housing mixed genders (though perhaps not in the same cell, that could be an opt-in possibility), could be a step forward.

The genders currently seem to be separated not for actual ease of care, at least if you consider the hospital bills and the settlements.

I disagree with how prison is currently 'implemented', not limited to just the segregation.

 

[luckynumbah7]

As for trans inmates, why not house them in the same cell in the gendered prison of-their-identity. They'd still be in the correctly gendered facility and there'd likely be much less corrective rape from other inmates.

 

[SeaCore]

I'd be curious of the other contexts as well, but that's probably not for this thread

As for trans inmates, why not house them in the same cell in the gendered prison of-their-identity. They'd still be in the correctly gendered facility and there'd likely be much less corrective rape from other inmates.

I sort of agree but it doesn't seem like the self-declarational model is enough. You could easily see a serial rapist who is a guy declare themselves to be trans to get access to the women's prison. There should be some kind of policy in place that can prevent loophole abuse. Even if it's simply requiring a psych evaluation.
What are your thoughts on that? It seems like a tricky circumstance.

 

[NotHardUp1]

What has to be looked at objectively is if treating inmates in this fashion constitutes cruel and unusual punishment. Back when the Bill of Rights was written cruel and unusual took no notice of one's gender identity. Today we do, it is a reality that has to be dealt with.

And the inverse is also true. Someone declaring as transgender cannot be accommodated in some way that will lessen his/her punishment compared to non-transgendered inmates. The punishment of imprisonment is intended to be fair in its impacts for both.

That is really what is at stake here. Listening to other inmates on the topic and whether it is being abused would probably give the most insight. I'd look for videos narrated by ex-cons.

 

[luckynumbah7]

I'd be curious of the other contexts as well, but that's probably not for this thread


I sort of agree but it doesn't seem like the self-declarational model is enough. You could easily see a serial rapist who is a guy declare themselves to be trans to get access to the women's prison. There should be some kind of policy in place that can prevent loophole abuse. Even if it's simply requiring a psych evaluation.
What are your thoughts on that? It seems like a tricky circumstance.

Already answered that, albeit in a bit of a roundabout way. I think segregation would be better served along what a criminal record contains - That includes the record of crimes committed in prison. If you've been raping someone in prison the results and basic math via camera should nix your ability to share a cell or be unobserved in a group of like-minded offenders. I would also like to see the correctional officers on camera for the entire working clock via bodycam. That includes monitoring showers and the nooks that everyone knows are available.

And you've forgotten about the opposite; I'm certain there's quite a few women of a violent persuasion serving what amounts to life who would claim male just to get access to some of those men. Mind you, I didn't say they were mentally well-balanced and I've doubts on any of the inmates involved getting out alive. Let alone with their genitalia attached.

Besides, if it's the dick you're worried about that doesn't tend to get erect on hrt and you can't juggle your meds in prison.

I can't imagine there'd be anywhere not at least visually monitored if the system didn't intend for it to be. Serial rapists and other repetitively violent offenders ...not too keen on leaving them in with everyone else. I also, wishfully, envision therapy programs, coping skill classes and basic education. Sort of a hard-line elementary school, pardon the punnery, that you don't get to go home from until you both pass the classes and serve your time. With a several year practical, but that's another topic.