UK General Election

[kallipolis]

The problem is not just the Greek tabloid industry, regular Greek citizens like you also seem to share quite a few delusions and a compulsion to blame others.

It is very clear that we cannot ignore the benefits that accrue to German industry as a result of Greek purchases.

We cannot ignore the speculators who are pressuring up the bond market to where today Greece is paying 7.8 pct on its Euro bond issues. Germany is paying less than half of this figure. EU guarantees will ensure that Greece is able to restructure, and pay down its debt, without being strangled, and forced into default as a result of paying extortionate interest payments. That is in interest of all involved, especially the banks that are owed so much money.

It is very instructive to notice that you didn't address any of my arguments.

I address those matters that I believe are pertinent to the discussion. Your right to raise peripheral issues that are emotive, rather than central to the issue. I am sure that German tourists will discover Turkey is also a convenient holiday destination.

Again, French and German companies, like companies from any country, will sell their products to anyone who will buy them. Or are you implying that the German government should prohibit BMW from selling cars or Siemens from selling refrigerators to Greek citizens? I am still not very clear on what the French or German governments have to do with this, or for that matter the EU!

The matter is that German industry accrues benefits when German banks lend to Greece, thereby permitting the Greek Government to buy hundreds of German tanks, thousands of German vehicles. Blohm und Voss do well selling Greece, frigates and submarines. Then there is the Greek private sector where German cars are very,very popular.

German bank money ensures that German products are accessible to the Greek purchaser.

How all this crisis have been avoided if Greece were not in the EU?

I am not in the habit of hypothisising.

Every measurement of anything from education to health to corruption through an index is relative -- Sorry!! If you can't see the different between #14 and #71 then... what can I say any further??

And of course corruption is also a fact of life in puritanical Germany. Relative, or not.

Rather like the gay man who boasted that he was not as gay, as his close friends, because he sucked less cock, than they.

 

[kallipolis]

"Heritage of individual liberty":
Decriminalization of homosexuality in France -- 1791
in Great Britain -- 1967; active arrest policy by police and prosecution of homosexuals reached thousands of victims during 1950-1967 period

On paper. Then came the reality of The French Revolution reign of terror.

Madame Guillotine ensured that she destroyed not only the ancien regime, but also the educated classes.

As Citizen Robspierre eventually learnt, a revolution eats its own.

 

[ViennaExpat83]

On paper. Then came the reality of The French Revolution reign of terror.

Madame Guillotine ensured that she destroyed not only the ancien regime, but also the educated classes.

As Citizen Robspierre eventually learnt, a revolution eats its own.

Not on paper, but in reality -- the Reign of Terror of the French Revolution 1791-93 is a separate issue, it did not affect the decriminalization of homosexuality which remained in effect. In fact, many gay British men during the 19th and 20th centuries who could afford to, moved to live in France for extended periods or for life due to the fact that they could freely have gay sex and relationships without being prosecuted, like in GB. Many also fled there after being indicted with sodomy charges in the UK to avoid going to prison.

The Reign of Terror of the French Revolution was definitely quite bloody, but it did break the hold of the aristocracy on the country. The UK suffered from a very strict class society for much longer, as evidenced by the fact that while universal male suffrage irrespective of income/class in France started in 1848 it only started in 1918 in the UK.
And if the Reign of Terror destroyed not only the Ancien Regime but also the educated classes, then why was Paris the cultural and artistic capital of the world 1800-1930s and not London?

 

[kallipolis]

Not on paper, but in reality -- the Reign of Terror of the French Revolution 1791-93 is a separate issue, it did not affect the decriminalization of homosexuality which remained in effect. In fact, many gay British men during the 19th and 20th centuries who could afford to, moved to live in France for extended periods or for life due to the fact that they could freely have gay sex and relationships without being prosecuted, like in GB. Many also fled there after being indicted with sodomy charges in the UK to avoid going to prison.

It its very difficult for the observer looking back to believe that the reign of terror, followed by the Napoleonic wars was nothing but a period of population reduction for France. And of course for those countries that were obliged to defend themselves from Napoleon's invading troops.

To believe that one can isolate a single issue, and propose that matter as evidence of more progressive thinking, and greater freedoms is to ignore the fact that the French people, were the victims of many decades of war, and its miseries during the late eighteen hundreds, and the early years of the nineteenth century.

There is no doubt that Paris was the centre of European culture for most of the nineteenth century. But London also featured sufficiently for it to be regarded for its arts, and cultural life.

It is an oddity but it took an Irishman, Oscar Wilde to behave arrogantly, and stupidly to enable the UK Parliament to legislate male omosexual, sexual behaviour as a crime. Lesbians were not so badly treated. Apparently Queen Victoria refused the royal assent to the original legislation, that included woman. She refused to believe that women could behave in such a manner.

If I had the time, and inclination I would research the topic of homosexuality in France, from the time of The French Revolution. Perhaps the next life?



The Reign of Terror of the French Revolution was definitely quite bloody, but it did break the hold of the aristocracy on the country. The UK suffered from a very strict class society for much longer, as evidenced by the fact that while universal male suffrage irrespective of income/class in France started in 1848 it only started in 1918 in the UK.

I would beg to differ. As you are well aware, the Republic, followed by an Empire did very little to settle the matter of the French aristocracy. Nor did the Paris barricades assist French society to better improve the lot of the ordinary people. Nor did the Franco/Prussian War. It is always wise to distinguish between paper legislation, and the realities of life for the general population.



And if the Reign of Terror destroyed not only the Ancien Regime but also the educated classes, then why was Paris the cultural and artistic capital of the world 1800-1930s and not London?

I am fairly certain that Paris did have its peaceful periods where war, revolution, riots and changes of regime were not a weekly event. What artist could not appreciate Paris?