Ummm.... WHAT happened in police custody to the black guy in Baltimore????

[opinterph]

[37] Unnever, James (2011). A Theory of African American Offending: Race, Racism, and Crime. Routledge. p. 2. ISBN 113680921X.

A Theory of African American Offending: Race, Racism, and Crime (Google Books)

A Theory of African American Offending: Race, Racism, and Crime (Book Review; Journal of Theoretical and Philosophical Criminology; January, 2013)

Beto Lecture Explores New Theory of African American Offending (College of Criminal Justice; Sam Houston State University Alumni Magazine; Vol 17 No 28)

 

[TX-Beau]

I don't know why you think he's going to read your links. I admire youe perseverance, but it's kind of like tossing pebbles at a mountain.

 

[kallipolis]

That is a fairly common statistic and there are many articles. Here is a fact check one
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime/19439

The many, and varied comments that follow this article make for an educational read.....

 

[Benvolio]

Why do you think the race of police officers matters?

The Race Gap in America’s Police Departments (NYT; April 8, 2015)​

Black on black abuse is not racist or racism.

 

[Benvolio]

A Theory of African American Offending: Race, Racism, and Crime (Google Books)

A Theory of African American Offending: Race, Racism, and Crime (Book Review; Journal of Theoretical and Philosophical Criminology; January, 2013)

Beto Lecture Explores New Theory of African American Offending (College of Criminal Justice; Sam Houston State University Alumni Magazine; Vol 17 No 28)

Of course, there are many attempts to explain the high crime rates among American blacks. I certainly do not claim that it is innate or a racial trait. I can remember a time when blacks were virtually excluded from good jobs by discrimination, and it is clear that our policy of massive immigration of whites willing to work was a major factor facilitating the discrimination.
Today, we know that about 72% of black children are born illegitimate, generation after generation, and the families receive a variety of forms of welfare. The statistic proves that welfare girls strongly tend to become welfare mothers. I have not doubt that it often is planned and intentional.Unintended pregnancies tend to be aborted, with the highest rate among blacks. BUT the boys from those families are likely to become involved in crime. They grow up in families where getting up every morning to go to work is not the model. Their models are pro athletes, getting paid to play, rap stars paid to rap, or worse, local criminals. Working for ordinary wages hardly seems worth it.
And they are seldom needed to work. They are not recruited. We have an oversupply of immigrants willing to work dirt cheap.

 

[palemale]

Police abuse cannot be excused,but it no doubt results in part from the high percent of black men involved in crime. Nationally more than half of violent crimes are by blacks and one in three black men spends time in the pen.

So does this mean when police abuse white people, it results in part from the high percent of black men involved in crime?

 

[Benvolio]

So does this mean when police abuse white people, it results in part from the high percent of black men involved in crime?

No. I think the psychology is different. With a high percentage of black men involved in crime, it would be easy for the police to fall into thinking that any black man that they come into contact with is involved in crime.

 

[opinterph]

Black on black abuse is not racist or racism.

Interesting remark – but how does it relate to racial disparities in police departments? If you fail to understand the problem, maybe you also fail to appreciate the need for a solution.

The percentage of Black residents in my city is almost 5 times greater than that of your city. My city is the bedrock of the Civil Rights Movement and birthplace of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. In 1960 Atlanta Mayor William B. Hartsfield praised the promise of nonviolence and of a peaceful approach. In 1963 Atlanta Mayor Ivan Allen was the only southern elected official to endorse President Kennedy’s Civil Rights bill, which became the 1964 Civil Rights Act. In 1971 Georgia’s newly elected Governor, Jimmy Carter, shocked white segregationists by declaring in his inaugural address that “the time for racial discrimination is over.” Three years later Atlanta elected its first Black Mayor – Maynard Jackson, who spearheaded efforts to increase the development and proliferation of small, minority- and women-owned businesses in the city. This inclusionary approach stimulated economic activity and networking by providing capital investment in infrastructure, the construction of public facilities, and fostering a public-private approach. By no means is the journey complete, but we continue working toward progress by embracing diversity and inclusion. As Senator Edward Kennedy stated in his first floor speech in the US Senate, “Prejudice exists in the minds and hearts of men. It cannot be eradicated by law.” Indeed, we must first recognize that we are all brothers and sisters.

 

[Benvolio]

You, like many in the media, are trying to make this seem to be a racial problem. But how can it be said to be racial if the cops were also Black? How could race be a motivation?
Is there a racial disparity in Baltimore police department? I did not see Baltimore mentioned in your link. I still do not know the races of the officers involved, or how it happened. One witness supposedly was in the van and says that Grey was hurting himself, to claim brutality. Unlikely, but the severity of the injuries are extraordinary, as well.

 

[TX-Beau]

The cops who arrested this guy were not Black. The "races" of the officers is fucking apparent in the video.

Ben's apologia and racist blaming of the victim is part of the problem. Bigots like him use any excuse they can find to excuse institutional prejudice and tell themselves it doesn't exist. It's perfectly possible to have a racist institution that employs minorities, there are minorities who participate in racist profiling, there are people who will side with authority against their own interests.

The fact that the major factor is poverty, and the fact that the poor are disproportionately minority is the root cause, all of Ben's mealy mouthed justifications and thinly veiled racist cant about criminal black men is just blinders so his ilk don't have to reassess their inherent prejudices.

These people have no jobs, their jobs went to China - because the rich need more profits. They have no educations because they have no property taxes, forget college even of the junior variety, they couldn't do the work even if the racist right hadn't cut all the funding for scholarships.

I believe it was Dickens who first pointed out that we must first create the thieves before we can punish them for it.

 

[ChickenGuy]

To return my thread back to topic from Benvolio's derailing of it....

I made the thread in shock and disgust at what those police officers did, and I am glad to hear today that they have now been charged. It is VERY important that sight is not lost of the truly disgraceful actions of the police officers in this case.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32554371

Baltimore's top prosecutor says she has filed criminal charges against six officers in the case of Freddie Gray who died in police custody.

State prosecutor Marilyn Mosby said the death of the 25-year-old black man was a homicide, and his arrest was illegal.

The full charges from the list in the article:

- Officer Caesar Goodson: 2nd degree murder, involuntary manslaughter, 2nd degree negligent assault, manslaughter by vehicle by means of gross negligence, manslaughter by vehicle by means of criminal negligence, misconduct in office for failure to secure prisoner and failure to render aid

- Officer William Porter: Involuntary manslaughter, assault in the 2nd degree, misconduct in office

- Lieutenant Brian Rice: Involuntary manslaughter, assault in the 2nd degree, assault in the 2nd degree [second of two similar charges], misconduct in office, false imprisonment

- Officer Edward Nero: Assault in the 2nd degree (intentional), assault in the 2nd degree (negligent), misconduct in office, false imprisonment

- Sergeant Alicia White: Involuntary manslaughter, 2nd degree assault, misconduct in office

- Officer Garrett Miller: Assault in the 2nd degree (intentional), assault in the 2nd degree (negligent), misconduct in office, false imprisonment

So if JUBbers could enlighten me, what is the process now, what likelihood is there that they'll be found guilty, and how long will the whole process take? Thanks for replies.

 

[TX-Beau]

So if JUBbers could enlighten me, what is the process now, what likelihood is there that they'll be found guilty, and how long will the whole process take? Thanks for replies.

Now the lawyers will swarm. Trial is next. It's traditionally very difficult to get convictions of police officers - but this isn't traditional context, so who knows.

Don't start holding your breath, you've probably got a few moths if not more before anyone sees the inside of a courthouse.

 

[Alnitak]

Prosecution should be ready for trial within a few months. It will be a high bar to prove homicide. So often police are let off the hook by juries because they are allowed to use reasonable force even if it results in injury. Juries may decide the facts but they aren't supposed to acquit because they don't like the law.

 

[TX-Beau]

Unfortunately juries of people often decide on the merits of things other than reason, and part of the issue is that they will acquit if they don't like the defendant. Which is why there are Judges in the room, and why cops go out of their way to portray the defendant in the worst light possible, also nullification isn't actually unheard of in American courts. Let's not pretend that the cops are scrupulously abiding by the facts and nothing else.

The problem for the cops here is that they never should have had him in custody in the first place, it's hard to maintain appropriate force arguments when the cops are just snatching people off the streets for no reason.

 

[TX-Beau]

I'm also thinking that our police departments have been encouraged to adopt a para-military culture since 9/11.

 

[Benvolio]

The facts are skimpy at this point, but most are charged among other things with "2d degree negligent assault". I have not read the statute, but in the nature of things, 2d degree and negligence will not require a high degree of guilt. I would expect all to be convicted of at least this relatively minor crime.

 

[Benvolio]

It now appears that Rice, Nero and Miller are white, and the remaining three are black.

 

[kallipolis]

This newspaper article includes the photographs of the six police defendants indicating three white, three black. The six Baltimore police officers were charged with crimes ranging from second degree murder to false imprisonment

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...amily-calls-for-peace-police-officers-charged

 

[kallipolis]

The facts are skimpy at this point, but most are charged among other things with "2d degree negligent assault". I have not read the statute, but in the nature of things, 2d degree and negligence will not require a high degree of guilt. I would expect all to be convicted of at least this relatively minor crime.

You managed to avoid referencing second degree murder for .
- Officer Caesar Goodson....clearly cited in ChickenGuy's earlier post quoting a BBC article.

 

[Benvolio]

You managed to avoid referencing second degree murder for .
- Officer Caesar Goodson....clearly cited in ChickenGuy's earlier post quoting a BBC article.

I said among other things. The question was whether they will be found guilty and my point is that one charge is that one charge is such a low level of guilt that they will probably all be found guilty of at least that, unless they make a deal.
The driver is the one charged with murder. He had the primary duty to use the seat belt and may have made the decision not to take him to a hospital. With Grey on the floor, the driver must have driven irresponsibly to cause the injuries it did.