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United Nations: Israeli government must stop its settlement activities in Palestine

President Obama understands very well that Netanyahu needs the "settler" vote to remain in power.

Building more Israeli housing projects in the Palestinian territories merely furthers the agenda of extremists in Israel, thereby embolding the extremists on the Arab side.

Israel's armed forces, police, and security services are second to none, and are well able to cope with Arab terrorism...without Israel building more (illegal) settlements in the Palestinian territories to further the goals of a tiny minority of Israelis who will keep voting for Netanyahu as long as he satisfies their demands.
 
Kabluey said:
Given Jewish Americans tend to be liberal, I'd say you're conflating something else with anti-semitism.

You appear to support politicians who are similarly homophobic, unless I'm mistaken.
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You're mistaken.

Considering the "everyone who disagrees with me is a bigot" mentality on this site, coupled with recent political events in the US, I think I know who you're talking about too.... and no, I do not support him at all.
 
I am waiting to read the solution for this conflict.
What is the solution ?
 
Kabluey said:
Bingo. Plenty of people who support Israel don't support the settlements.
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And some support the settlements but refuse to countenance the taking of land without compensation -- there are various degrees of support.

I didn't mind the original settlements if they'd paid enough for the land for its original occupants to be able to afford to relocate. But once the UN said "No more", it should have ended.
 
Benvolio said:
Israel says they are sure that Obama engineered the vote. Of course he waited until after the election, after the party collected millions from the Jewish contributors and their votes, then brought the resolution to vote before leaving office, while dishonestly abstaining. A masterpiece of passive aggression. We should all be happy to see him go.
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What "dishonestly"? Are you suggesting that the President of the United States should be susceptible to being bought?
 
kallipolis said:
President Obama understands very well that Netanyahu needs the "settler" vote to remain in power.

Building more Israeli housing projects in the Palestinian territories merely furthers the agenda of extremists in Israel, thereby embolding the extremists on the Arab side.

Israel's armed forces, police, and security services are second to none, and are well able to cope with Arab terrorism...without Israel building more (illegal) settlements in the Palestinian territories to further the goals of a tiny minority of Israelis who will keep voting for Netanyahu as long as he satisfies their demands.
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This is why I thought they should have kept the Sinai -- Israelis have been good at making desert into useful land, and that would have provided them with plenty to move into. They could even have improved land for Palestinians to move to in order to escape the crowding in Gaza. But no.... there's an attachment to the land that seems to control.
 
Maybe the most important aspect of this vote is that after 50 years of the US saying publicly and privately that they did not support the Israeli settlements...Obama finally refused to have the hypocrisy continue any longer by the US using its Veto.
 
I'm very supportive of Israel and its right to exist under securely defined borders. Keeping indulging Netanyahu and the hard right there is counterproductive and could be downright dangerous in the long run. Sometimes being a good friend is telling someone something that is not easy for them to hear, being honest and frank and not enabling or coddling when that friend is engaged in something that just can't be defensible. I have great skepticism regarding the Palestinians... they have NEVER made a real move showing they were ready for peaceful coexistence with Israel. However for Israel to take a tantrum and blast the United States, which still is its biggest defense guarantor by far is asinine. We are is trying to help provide as a honest broker an atmosphere conducive for negotiations between Israel and Palestine to the greatest extent possible despite Palestinian games playing(not helped by Israel making the total victim cry from the Palestinians in acting in a heavy handed manner and if anything, doubling down on it) and yet we are made by the hard right here and in Israel look like the bad guy... that's classic chutzpah in action. Look at Donald Trump... as usual showing how an American president should NEVER act and holding Netanyahu's hand and coddling him liked a spoiled child who never hears "no" and making his own lawyer, who provides funding for settlements his proposed ambassador to Israel.... it's continued insanity we have someone who will be in charge of the nuclear codes for Christ's sake keep raising the temperature and providing instability and contentiousness when we need calm, direction and leadership.

We are fucking screwed come January 20 when Trump gets in.
 
^ hopefully his officials work to distract him from the hard work of governing with the celebrity side of the job.
Otherwise his apparent naivety will cause problems.

Trump's adversaries both internationally and domestically are testing him right now, and he's not performing well at all.

Right now he seems to be happily led by an Israeli prime minister who himself is under fire from a hardline minority within the Israeli government.

A country of 325 million bending to the whim of a few thousand voters in a country of 8 million.
 
Sausy said:
I'm very supportive of Israel and its right to exist under securely defined borders. Keeping indulging Netanyahu and the hard right there is counterproductive and could be downright dangerous in the long run. Sometimes being a good friend is telling someone something that is not easy for them to hear, being honest and frank and not enabling or coddling when that friend is engaged in something that just can't be defensible. I have great skepticism regarding the Palestinians... they have NEVER made a real move showing they were ready for peaceful coexistence with Israel. However for Israel to take a tantrum and blast the United States, which still is its biggest defense guarantor by far is asinine. We are is trying to help provide as a honest broker an atmosphere conducive for negotiations between Israel and Palestine to the greatest extent possible despite Palestinian games playing(not helped by Israel making the total victim cry from the Palestinians in acting in a heavy handed manner and if anything, doubling down on it) and yet we are made by the hard right here and in Israel look like the bad guy... that's classic chutzpah in action. Look at Donald Trump... as usual showing how an American president should NEVER act and holding Netanyahu's hand and coddling him liked a spoiled child who never hears "no" and making his own lawyer, who provides funding for settlements his proposed ambassador to Israel.... it's continued insanity we have someone who will be in charge of the nuclear codes for Christ's sake keep raising the temperature and providing instability and contentiousness when we need calm, direction and leadership.

We are fucking screwed come January 20 when Trump gets in.
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Obama's treacherous change in policy destabilizes the situation rather than the contrary. If allowing the resolution by abstention was the correct thing, why did he not vote for the resolution? What sense does that make?
 
It doesn't matter what the UN does. Israel is now permanently controlled by right wing government owing to the explosive growth of Haredi Jews and their voting power in Agudat Israel and Shas, which in a generation will be bigger than Likud itself. The normal orthodox aren't exactly shrinking either. Their goal is to settle the entire biblical range of Ancient Israel. By 2050 the ultra orthodox will outnumber everyone else and Israel will turn into a religious fundamentalist state practically the Jewish equivalent of Iran. So the settlement will get worse and worse no matter what anyone does.
 
Benvolio said:
Obama's treacherous change in policy destabilizes the situation rather than the contrary. If allowing the resolution by abstention was the correct thing, why did he not vote for the resolution? What sense does that make?
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What treacherous change in policy?

The US is on record as opposing the settlements for the last 5 decades through many administrations.

Obama has put the two state solution squarely on the line. This is Israel's defining moment. If they fail to stop the illegal occupation of others' land...they had better remember that all of this will turn to ashes in their mouths.

But the US has to stop enabling the settlements it opposes. This is one way of sending that signal.

Not to worry though. Once Trump is in place...let the end times roll.
 
Benvolio said:
Obama's treacherous change in policy destabilizes the situation rather than the contrary. If allowing the resolution by abstention was the correct thing, why did he not vote for the resolution? What sense does that make?
Click to expand...

For someone claiming to be an attorney, you have an astounding inability to see nuances. Think about it for a while -- I'll give you a hint: the world isn't binary.
 
rareboy said:
What treacherous change in policy?

The US is on record as opposing the settlements for the last 5 decades through many administrations.

Obama has put the two state solution squarely on the line. This is Israel's defining moment. If they fail to stop the illegal occupation of others' land...they had better remember that all of this will turn to ashes in their mouths.

But the US has to stop enabling the settlements it opposes. This is one way of sending that signal.

Not to worry though. Once Trump is in place...let the end times roll.
Click to expand...

It's too bad that introducing a resolution to demand that Israel compensate the owners of the land already taken, at a level sufficient to allow them to relocate to anywhere they want within, say, a 2000km radius, would muddy the waters, because such a move might actually help. I'd combine it with the same offer to any resident of Gaza who would like to relocate within that same radius.

Then the U.S. should provide matching funds to build plants for electricity and water, located in the Sinai, to supply Gaza independently of anything Israel can touch, asking the areas nations to pony up and thus prove their support.
 
Benvolio said:
Obama's treacherous change in policy destabilizes the situation rather than the contrary. If allowing the resolution by abstention was the correct thing, why did he not vote for the resolution? What sense does that make?
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The settlements are the destabilising factor.

I would have thought that Ben of all people would want illegal settlement and protection of borders to be paramount.
 
We made a lot of progress with Obama as far as distancing ourselves from Israel. Disappointing to see Trump go in the other direction to undo this. Really seems as though public opinion in the U.S. has really shifted over the years, with staunch religious conservatives still supporting the expansion of territory by Israel.
 
I haven't seen or heard much about the reaction of American Jews to Obama's abstention or his timing of it after their financial and voting support for democrats in the election.
 
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