Universal vs. Market-Based Health Care

[jJoEd77]

I'm just interested to see the different opinions of people in favor of universal health care and of market-based health care.

I know the basics of both but I'm just wondering why everyone thinks universal health care is the best thing that could ever happen to America.

 

[justapixel]

I'm just interested to see the different opinions of people in favor of universal health care and of market-based health care.

I know the basics of both but I'm just wondering why everyone thinks universal health care is the best thing that could ever happen to America.

I would like to be in favor of universal health care.

However, I believe two things will happen:

There will be huge waiting times to see a doctor. The UK and Canada have this problem.

Quality of care would decrease.

Thus I am not in favor of universal health care.

Here is what typically will happen:

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/ukdental3.html

 

[HenryReardon]

I'm just interested to see the different opinions of people in favor of universal health care and of market-based health care.

I know the basics of both but I'm just wondering why everyone thinks universal health care is the best thing that could ever happen to America.

That is a perfectly unwarranted assumption - everyone doesn't think that. Universal health care would not be a good thing for many reasons.

 

[Txgoodoldboy]

There are 46 million uninsured in America. Nine million of those are children. That is the reason we need universal health care.

 

[HenryReardon]

There are 46 million uninsured in America. Nine million of those are children. That is the reason we need universal health care.

That's grossly misleading.

[Full verbatim quote: Removed by Moderator] Refer to: Terms and Conditions © 2009 MediLexicon International Ltd

In addition, a large portion of the "uninsured" are illegal aliens.

 

[justapixel]

There are 46 million uninsured in America. Nine million of those are children. That is the reason we need universal health care.

Would the uninsured get a free pair of pliers?

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/ukdental3.html

 

[Sammie13]

The government can't do ANYTHING right, so why would you want them running your healthcare?

Imagine you're 66 years old, and you have a heart attacking mowing the lawn...the hospital won't even put you on a ventilator because you're over the govt mandated age of 65 which is the cut-off age that the govt has decided is economically feasible to prolong your life. That's a true story from Europe. It might not happen in the first launch of US universall healthcare, but it will occur at a point when the govt has to make budgetary decisions. We are a country used to treating even stage 4 cancer...those days will be long gone under universal health care....too expensive to treat. Renal failure over 70? Sorry, charlie...you're screwed!!!

And imagine US pharmaceutical companies drug research pipelines drying up as the lack of profit diminishes their desire to spend millions developing new therapies for diseases when there is no monetary incentive. It is money that has inspired so many modern sophisticated medicines and technology.

And if you think physicians don't spend enough time listening to you re-count all your ailments now...imagine how fast they will herd you in and out of their offices when they're only collecting $15 from the govt to treat you. Suddenly, docs will be more driven by volume than a Wal Mart store.

Once the box is opened, universal health care will relatively quickly undermine the quality of US healthcare as we know it. But, I do suspect initial proposals won't be so bad, as they have to hook us first. Believe me, this will be a bigger fiasco than social security....certainly, it's likely to be more expensive.

Just like with Medicare Part D, I would rather see the govt work a plan utilizing commercial payors. Maybe all uninsured US citizens could be randomly placed in 5-10 different private payor plans with reasonable pricing that would create a large subscriber pool just like if they were employed by a large company.

 

[HenryReardon]

Yeah, and wasn't this topic beaten to death a few months ago? Or was that in another forum?

 

[TheTalkingAsshole]

Yeah, and wasn't this topic beaten to death a few months ago? Or was that in another forum?

Beaten? Yeah, I think that was in the Fetish/Kink forum.

 

[HenryReardon]

Universal health care is better than what we have now... universal health insurance is not better, but better than market-based health insurance (which is worse than, and is NOT the same as, market-based health care). I have no idea why people are deluded in thinking that health insurance is not the scam that it is.

Which, of course, explains why people flock to the USA from places like Canada to obtain better health care than they can get at home.

Or why people from the UK go abroad for services they cannot get in a timely manner at home.

Right on.

 

[cityboy-stl]

I'm just interested to see the different opinions of people in favor of universal health care and of market-based health care.

I know the basics of both but I'm just wondering why everyone thinks universal health care is the best thing that could ever happen to America.

I'm in favor of universal health care because there is no such thing as market-based disease.

I would be in favor of universal health care administered by the insurance companies under strict regulation. There should be insurance policy and claim consolidation to eliminate the zillions of forms and rules and procedures to bring down costs. Everyone would be covered by a basic policy that all insurance companies must provide and share the cost of and those who are able can buy up increased premium coverage. The government mandates the rules and insurance companies implement a basic policy for everyone but allow for additional cost regulated options. Claims should be simplified and consolidated for all insurance companies. Those eligible for coverage are US citizens and legal immigrants. Regulate the structure at the national level, implement it at the business level. That is what I would do.

 

[justapixel]

Lets put it this way:

Would you go to the county hospital today?

 

[SonOfSlobone]

Setting up a false dichotomy. Universal health care doesn't automatically mean single-payer, Canadian style, it just means that everybody in the country is guaranteed health care of one form or another.

It's a disgrace that the world's richest country doesn't already have it.

 

[M4P]

I'm in favour of universal health care but not necessarily the Canadian model. I'm for a publicly funded system delivered by the private sector

 

[SonOfSlobone]

Lets put it this way:

Would you go to the county hospital today?

I would and do. Not to the county hospital, which costs a fortune, but to the best hospital in the state, where I get treated absolutely free (thanks to a modest monthly insurance premium.) No forms to fill out either, and I get all my prescriptions free, although there will be a small copay starting this year.

 

[bankside]

I would like to be in favor of universal health care.

However, I believe two things will happen:

There will be huge waiting times to see a doctor. The UK and Canada have this problem.

Quality of care would decrease.

Thus I am not in favor of universal health care.

Here is what typically will happen:

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/ukdental3.html

We have universal health care in Canada. We spend far less per person on health care. I am annoyed by waiting times. If I want to see my own doctor (the one I picked at will), I would probably need to book up to 2 weeks in advance, if it can wait, or they would try to fit me in. If they can't fit me in, I would have to go to a Medicentre, where I wouldn't see my own doctor but whoever was on duty. Depending on who else is sick that day, I might have to wait 2 or 3 hours, which I hate.

I keep arguing that we shouldn't be so cheap, and we should be willing to pay as much in taxes as the Americans do in health premiums. If we spent as much as the States, the doctors would be able to make house-calls in medical limousines.

The US could afford to do that too, but only if they laid off all the bill collectors, health insurance vendors, and marketers in their health system, and paid for doctors and nurses instead. They might also be able to get health care for everyone. It is not like buying a video game or a bag of pringles. It is health, life & death. In fact it seems really perverse that your country has allowed this to go on for so long. To put it in perspective, hearing about American health care was as though I had found out you had skyscrapers and rockets to the moon, and the internet, and electricity, and cell phones and dishwashers, but you all still had to go out to the outhouse when nature called. It just makes no sense.

The thing with waiting times is easily solved with a very small bit of extra cash, and still far less than the states spends.

 

[HenryReardon]

It's a disgrace that the world's richest country doesn't already have it.

Bovine Excreta.

Our founding documents do not promise life, liberty, and free health care.

 

[thermodynamics]

I'm in favour of universal health care but not necessarily the Canadian model. I'm for a publicly funded system delivered by the private sector

You took the words right out of my mouth!

I worked in a Pharmacy in high school, and I saw there that there are absolutely huge economies of scale to universal health care, or even for 2 or 3 payers, but no more.

 

[HenryReardon]

Actually, the USA has the best health care in the world. The only point of contention is over how it is delivered.

 

[bankside]

Bovine Excreta.

Our founding documents do not promise life, liberty, and free health care.

No, you are quite right. Your founding documents are deficient in that regard.

Actually, the USA has the best health care in the world. The only point of contention is over how it is delivered.

I'm afraid that is up for discussion too. Don't worry, you're closing in on Dominica:

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