USA tipping culture

[Swellegant]

like i told NineOfClubs, its not a big deal, just chat about the culture of tipping thats all. You seems to be abit annoyed.

Seeming annoyed is just my politeness... I am in fact quite livid. Partly because my meds are a little wonky, but mostly because various personages (who shall not be named) have implied that Americans are a bunch of fucking morons to continue to tip and expect tips.

I'm not hearing (or rather reading) phrases like "does one tip in this situation or that?"... I'm getting "why should I be expected to tip?" I have not been invited to explain the finer points of tipping etiquette to interested parties; I am having instead to defend the practice of tipping to hostile parties.

It pisses me off. As it would piss you off if I started attacking some cultural norm of your country that you probably take for granted and visitors find baffling. I don't know what those are, as the only time I've ever been out of my own country was a two-day visit to a tourist city in Canada (where I tipped all and sundry just like I was at home, and they seemed unoffended)... but I am pretty sure that I'd be careful not to shit on those cultural norms when I did discover them.

 

[Telstra]

Seeming annoyed is just my politeness... I am in fact quite livid. Partly because my meds are a little wonky, but mostly because various personages (who shall not be named) have implied that Americans are a bunch of fucking morons to continue to tip and expect tips.

I'm not hearing (or rather reading) phrases like "does one tip in this situation or that?"... I'm getting "why should I be expected to tip?" I have not been invited to explain the finer points of tipping etiquette to interested parties; I am having instead to defend the practice of tipping to hostile parties.

It pisses me off. As it would piss you off if I started attacking some cultural norm of your country that you probably take for granted and visitors find baffling. I don't know what those are, as the only time I've ever been out of my own country was a two-day visit to a tourist city in Canada (where I tipped all and sundry just like I was at home, and they seemed unoffended)... but I am pretty sure that I'd be careful not to shit on those cultural norms when I did discover them.

umm why would you be offended if they are not attacking you personally. From this thread there are quite afew Americans who didn't like the tipping system and felt pressured to tip.

If a cultural practices that doesn't look that good from the outside, people are allow to point that out.

About "my" country or "your" country.
Unless i owned the country, there is no such thing as "my" country.

 

[belamy]

Seeming annoyed is just my politeness... I am in fact quite livid. Partly because my meds are a little wonky, but mostly because various personages (who shall not be named) have implied that Americans are a bunch of fucking morons to continue to tip and expect tips.

I'm not hearing (or rather reading) phrases like "does one tip in this situation or that?"... I'm getting "why should I be expected to tip?" I have not been invited to explain the finer points of tipping etiquette to interested parties; I am having instead to defend the practice of tipping to hostile parties.

It pisses me off. As it would piss you off if I started attacking some cultural norm of your country that you probably take for granted and visitors find baffling. I don't know what those are, as the only time I've ever been out of my own country was a two-day visit to a tourist city in Canada (where I tipped all and sundry just like I was at home, and they seemed unoffended)... but I am pretty sure that I'd be careful not to shit on those cultural norms when I did discover them.

.......

 

[belamy]

yea.... why?

"yea" it was or it was not?

 

[Telstra]

Telstra, I only saw nasty stuff put into the food with extremely rude customers, not customers who didn't tip.

However, in a high-class joint in NYC or SF, if you went back a second time after not tipping the first time, they might do something nasty to the food...

........ never complain with your waiter ...

 

[Swellegant]

umm why would you be offended if they are not attacking you personally.

I guess I just offend easily. Especially since I identify personally as an American and a functioning member of the United States of America. If you attack this country, with bombs or with snide remarks, you attack everyone in it, including me. Countries are not land masses without identity, they are collections of people with identities both collective and individual. I am happy to hear criticism of some of my fellow Americans, I criticise them myself; but not the whole USA in toto.

Furthermore, as a person who tips and who has lived on tips, I identify very strongly with tipping culture. So again, yes you are attacking me personally when you attack something with which I strongly identify.

About "my" country or "your" country. Unless i owned the country, there is no such thing as "my" country.

If you vote and pay taxes, you own your country... not all of it, certainly, you have to share ownership with the rest of the citizenry, but it is your country nevertheless.

If a cultural practices that doesn't look that good from the outside, people are allow to point that out.

But you aren't just "pointing it out," you and various others are attacking it. You do not accept explanations, you do not suspend judgement until you know more; you simply dismiss the whole thing from the lofty superiority of your nationless social perfection.

An aside to belamy: so now giving a little extra money to service personnel is a social evil on the scale of the complete disenfranchisement of women? I know you're given to hyperbole, but that's going a bit too far. Tipping culture is at its very worst a minor inconvenience. If you don't like it, don't eat in restaurants: easy fix. Try fixing the state of women in certain Islamic countries so easily.

From this thread there are quite afew Americans who didn't like the tipping system and felt pressured to tip.

And to them I have said: what pressure? Were you lured into the restaurant (or hotel or taxicab or salon) under some false pretense of paying only the printed sum (which always ends in ".99")? Hardly... you knew before you went into the restaurant that you'd be expected to tip (as well as pay sales tax). Just as you knew, before you went into the restaurant, that you would not be cooking your own food nor washing your own dishes. It's part of what eating in a restaurant is.

Some people just want it both ways... they want the restaurant service but they don't want to pay for it. They want the protections of the State but they don't want to pay the taxes that keep it running. Well, too bad. If you don't like tipping, don't eat in restaurants (if you don't like paying taxes, there's really no help for you).

You know, eating in restaurants is not an inalienable right, it's a luxury. If you can't pay for luxuries, both the stated and the implied costs, then don't buy them.

 

[Telstra]

the reason i said there is no such thing as "my country" because

say if a Redneck American tells a migrant in the US to go back to your country, that migrant can easily tell him/her to go back to where their ancestors were coming from.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

How can a telemarketer get a tip if he/she sweets talk you and make u wet.

 

[Fucker29]

View attachment 308348.......

Can anyone scream TOUCHE?

 

[belamy]

yea it was in Paris

I know
I know about the bad reputation, but even if you might find "nicer" people outside "horrible" Paris, it would be surprising, first, that American people without any good command of the French language would adventure themselves into uncharted frog territory and, second, it would be even more extraordinary to find people in a restaurant outside Paris proper with people both speaking English tolerably well AND willing to "waste" their time providing good service to "lost" customers.
I only wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything and making wrong assumptions

 

[Telstra]

Telstra, the migrants themselves have come from countries stolen from the Indians, so your argument would fail to convince.

its not an argument. Its a response if someone in the US said go back to your country, well that someone can reply by saying you go 1st.

 

[Willie Boy]

about AUD $15 per hour (not sure)
$1 AUD = 65 cent us

That would be around $10.18 US

Here the Federal Minimum wage is $6.55 or 9.65 AUD

However each State can pay higher

In California, the state minimum wage is $8. But good luck trying to even rent a one bedroom apt. in most counties throughout the state on a full-time (40 hrs/week) job earning that.

So, I'm the only into cow tipping then hey?

You people don't know what you're missing.

OH the hilarity.

You just need to be careful where and when. I know from personal experience that Ol' MacDonald takes a dim view his cows being tipped.

And I can TOO be serious... when I wanna.

If a cow provides me with fresh, cold, homogenized milk I'll leave her a decent tip. If she don't provide milk, then I'll tip her over (j/k).

 

[levenshulme31]

From what I can see, the tipping cuture allows crappy employers to pay sub-minimum wages, expecting their customers to pay over the advertised price for the purchased goods/services to make up the wages. This should be illegal. An employee is paid for the time they are on the clock. Any tips should be between the customer and the tip recipient.

I also don't see why tips should be a percentage of the bill. A waiter bringing a $5 burger does the same amount of work as one bringing a $25 lobster.

 

[belamy]

I don't know where people get the stereotype about the French not being nice. I mean people were nice everywhere I went in Europe... except airport security but thats bad everywhere. I always made an attempt but told them in French that my French wasn't too good and asked if they spoke English. I also was prepared to say in French that I am an American but I HATE Bush.

Oh, I remember those times... it was so pathetic when someone would introduce himself by saying "Hi, I'm American but I hate Bush"

 

[Swellegant]

From what I can see, the tipping cuture allows crappy employers to pay sub-minimum wages, expecting their customers to pay over the advertised price for the purchased goods/services to make up the wages. This should be illegal. An employee is paid for the time they are on the clock. Any tips should be between the customer and the tip recipient.

I agree. But what do you think should be done about it? Here's a hint: "stop tipping" is the wrong answer. That's like saying the solution to poverty is to let the poor starve to death.

I also don't see why tips should be a percentage of the bill. A waiter bringing a $5 burger does the same amount of work as one bringing a $25 lobster.

Well, not really. I mean, a lobster is simply heavier than a hamburger. Slipperier, too, much likelier to slide off the plate if you're not careful.

But the difference is a perceived one rather than an actual one... though there is some expectation of difference in skill and experience, a waiter in a fancy restaurant is simply perceived to be a better waiter than one working in a greasy spoon... just as a journeyman housepainter does a hell of a lot more work (and, in my opinion, better work) than a famous painter like Julian Schnabel, the latter gets paid millions for every eight-by-five canvas while the former gets maybe a thousand for a 2k-square-foot house.

So, shall we pay the journeyman housepainter more, or pay Julian Schnabel less? Should we tip the hamburger-schlepper more or the lobster-schlepper less? Keeping in mind that tipping is an ingrained part of our sociocultural system, what would you have us do?

It isn't really reasonable to expect every complaint to be accompanied by a possible solution (though it would be ideal); but after four pages of bitching one way or another about tipping, nobody has suggested a workable possible solution to the "evils" they perceive in tipping culture.

I made a passing suggestion toward labor law reform, but I know that's going to be a long row to hoe... as long as there remains an ocean of people to take those jobs should their holders go on strike, there isn't much leverage these people can use (and remember that it is the low-end, lower-skill-level restaurants that pay beneath minimum wage; not all restaurants do this); and without leverage, labor-law reform just puddles along without much impetus.

So, what do you think? What should we Americans do about the inequities of the tipping system?

 

[Willie Boy]

The problem with tipping is that it is completely subjective. What one person feels is great service, the next person might view as merely adequate, depending on how each was brought up and what he/she expects.

In my opinion, the best way to deal with the whole situation would be to eliminate greed. But as that is basically impossible, an increase of minimum wage to a level that allows one to make ends meet would be a start. Of course all loopholes allowing disreputable employers from paying less than minimum wage would have to be removed. This is not a clean fix, but if executive salaries and bonuses were adjusted to fit the needs of the companies and not the desires of said execs, most - if not all - of the failing companies would be financially stable.

 

[thewiz]

I just got back from getting my haircut, eyebrows done, and pedicure....20%.

Same at dinner last night with the boy....we had a cute waiter who was new and he gave good service so he got 20....really, really outstanding service nets more but that is rare....

 

[Telstra]

$20 for a haircut?? Where do you get your hair cut Telstra, Jim's Mowing Services?

yeah Jim's Mowing and electrical services.

 

[belamy]

Why was it pathetic? I mean considering Bush had a very low approval rating in Europe and many Americans like myself hated him just as much. We simply wanted to distance ourselves from him and in a way say "You think you don't like him, try having him be your president. IT SUCKS."

Then why don't Americans introduce themselves by saying "I'm American but I'm not the typical ignorant American" more often
It's pathetic because you are apologizing for something you shouldn't be apologizing in the first place, and even less as your first introduction to a foreigner: it's a way of feeling entirely ashamed of your nationality, and even if you can find reasons to feel "ashamed", expressing it so openly and desperately is lowering you even more.

That sort of feelings and acting is what paved the way to Reagan: people elected him because, after the shame of the incident with Iran, they wanted to feel hope and pride again and they let themselves be led by the best professional pretender wearing a cowboy costume and delivering boyscout speeches.

 

[LilBit]

Unfortunately, yes.

To be fair, people categorize and stereotype people in every arena of life, based on the bad behavior of a few.

I never heard as many racist remarks as I did when I was working in the restaurant/bar business. It was truly disgusting.

And honestly, I saw no correlation whatsoever between race and tips when I was working at the Evil Place. If anything, I noticed that most of the people who stiffed me were women.