"Vaccine didn't work, never work .... "

[freefall]

What I am going to say you can interpret any way you like..I go back and forth myself....

I never had the flu in my life ....so I never took a flu shot until a doctor sorta convinced me it was a good idea...

...and then I got the shot...and I got the flu....and it sucked....

..neither had I ever had pneumonia....but the doctor convinced me with my heart thing it is a good idea to get a shot...

...so I did..and then I got pneumonia.....

...and NOW...I keep hearing about the shingles and the shot I could get...F U C K ......

...I would be a fool not to consider that it might be a bad idea....

Here't the thing. Most doctors would not even consider that I am a physical empath. They would dismiss it..but it is real and it has been scary as hell more than once...like when I had the same physical symptoms as my mom when she was dying...my arm even turned yellow....so maybe..just maybe...since they don't even recognize my condition...that maybe my body is not compatible with the "shots"....

I know that I will not get a definitive answer but occasionally I talk to a lady who completely "gets it" and so I will ask her what she thinks as I trust her to at least give me the best answer and/or tell me if she doesn't know.

I won't talk about physical empathy here (because it might be to some extent true despite the great intersection with hypocondriasis), but there's a very great explanation about why you caught those diseases right after those particular vaccination.

Influenza vaccines are amongst the most precarious vaccines ever made, not because they're not effective, but because the high mutability of the influenza virus. That means in a given plenty of time a single virus gene can mutate into more than 1 variants. Right now there are thousands of influenza virus strains and sadly, a specific vaccine cannot offer protection to all those variants at once. And the vaccine made in one time certainly cannot provide protection to a new mutation occurring after its production - the exact reason why this year vaccine's would be outdated the next year and be replaced with a new vaccine, covering potential new variants, and in turn becomes obsolete the oncoming year. Simply put, if one gets flu vaccine then get the flu itself, then there's high chance flu virus variant isn't covered by the vaccine the one's getting.

As for the pneumonia vaccine, the efficacy rate is actually low from a lot of studies (a colleague of mine in college actually did a scientific review on the studies). In other words, it would not very likely protect you against pneumonia and we need to improve it further. Thus there is a chance you might be at the wrong time and body condition that you immediately catch those diseases after your vaccination - again I'm not dismissing your physical empathy, but there are those chances.

Then why do doctors still recommend taking flu and pneumonia shots? The simple reason would be that the possible protection they offer you greatly outbalance the risks and possible consequences of catching one, moreover since most vaccines nowadays are associated with outrageously rare dire side effects. Thus the ones who would actually benefit from these are people with health problems of which an infection would endanger them, people with weak/suppressed immunity, and frail people (including some aged population). There's however no strict wrong/right here (except for the immunocompromised people) and they're therefore not obligatory. I myself wouldn't routinely advise people to take these two shots regularly, particularly if the person is very healthy and/or still young.

As for shingles, like Neil said: if you had had chicken pox, no need for it. If you already had shingles, no need for it. They're both caused by the same virus and it's very unlikely one had shingles without history of having chicken pox.

 

[eastofeden]

^ That would have to be your decision, but you should talk to a doctor or pharmacists for advice. Keep in mind, though, as bad as the flu or pneumonia were, shingles can be a whole lot worse for a whole lot longer.

That's the problem. I have listened carefully to what shingles can do and am eager to get the shot BUT...I don't have anyone who will just tell me the truth about the shots and why I got both things for the first time AFTER they gave me the shots.....

...so while I may be trying to avoid shingles..I am afraid the shot will give me shingles instead based on my experience with vaccines...

...so I need to ask someone who is at least familiar with physical empathy to see if that possibly had anything to do with my reaction to both of the previous "vaccines" because now in my eyes...the vaccinations gave me both of those things...and I would be pissed off if the shingles vaccination gave me shingles....

 

[gsdx]

That's the problem. I have listened carefully to what shingles can do and am eager to get the shot BUT...I don't have anyone who will just tell me the truth about the shots

There's lots of info about it. Just Google 'shingles after vaccination'. The vaccination doesn't prevent you from getting, but it the length and severity of them.

As for the flu, I found this:

The flu vaccine only protects against influenza, not other illnesses. Another explanation is that it is possible to be exposed to influenza viruses, which cause the flu, shortly before getting vaccinated or during the two-week period after vaccination that it takes the body to develop immune protection.

You can't get the flu from a vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/misconceptions.htm

 

[Telstra]

about flu vaccine,
i'm not convince flu vaccine is useful because flue virus change so often correct ?

 

[freefall]

^Already explained in my post above. Read it.

 

[gsdx]

about flu vaccine,
i'm not convince flu vaccine is useful because flue virus change so often correct ?

Just because it changes so often doesn't mean the old viruses are still out there. You can get sick from a flu virus which has been around your entire lifetime just as you can from a new virus. Vaccines can't protect from future viruses. Only the old ones that someone already had.

 

[KaraBulut]

...Influenza vaccines are amongst the most precarious vaccines ever made, not because they're not effective, but because the high mutability of the influenza virus. That means in a given plenty of time a single virus gene can mutate into more than 1 variants. Right now there are thousands of influenza virus strains and sadly, a specific vaccine cannot offer protection to all those variants at once....

Then why do doctors still recommend taking flu and pneumonia shots? The simple reason would be that the possible protection they offer you greatly outbalance the risks and possible consequences of catching one, moreover since most vaccines nowadays are associated with outrageously rare dire side effects.

This is true of the influenza immunization in its current form.

The shots are prepared to boost the immune response to a certain part of the outside of the influenza virus. Unfortunately, it's the part that also mutates rapidly.

We know from experience that the more often that a person is exposed to influenza viruses, the better the immune response. Every year, about 500,000 people die worldwide from influenza. Even if this year's influenza shot isn't an exact match for the mutated form that is being spread from person to person, it's still worth getting the shot in order to offer at least some partial protection.

The good news is that there's a new version of the influenza immunization that is under development. The new version focuses on the parts of the outside of the virus that don't change. If the trials on the new version work, it would offer 5-10 years of immunity, so you won't have to get the shot ever year and there's a much better chance that it will cover more strains of the flu.

...so while I may be trying to avoid shingles..I am afraid the shot will give me shingles instead based on my experience with vaccines...

Except that you already have the virus that causes shingles and chickenpox inside your nerve endings. Shingles isn't a new infection- it's actually reactivation of the chickenpox virus. Your immune system is constantly fighting to keep the virus under control.

The shingles shot is just a booster to help your immune system recognize the chickenpox virus that is dormant in your nerve endings before it turns into shingles. Even in people who do have a shingles outbreak after receiving the shot, the booster helps with some of the complications that can happen from shingles- including encephalitis, blindness, deafness and a long-term burning sensation that can last for months (post-herpetic neuralgia).

 

[frankfrank]

That's the problem. I have listened carefully to what shingles can do and am eager to get the shot BUT...I don't have anyone who will just tell me the truth about the shots and why I got both things for the first time AFTER they gave me the shots...

Whether I had chicken pox in childhood is lost to history and memory...though I think I did. I went ahead five or six years ago and GOT SHOT, haha - I understand the protection isn't absolute, but it makes it less likely to get shingles, and should lessen the effects if I was unfortunate enough to still get shingles.

about flu vaccine,
i'm not convince flu vaccine is useful because flue virus change so often correct ?

They configure it based on which strains of flu are most prevalent while they're developing it. What I don't know is, if Telstra had gotten a flu shot on the same date that I did in the United States (around 20 September, I think), would the vaccine be the same in different parts of the world?

I do get flu shots steadfastly every year...and I haven't had flu in at least 45 years.

 

[Alistair]

The shingles shot is just a booster to help your immune system recognize the chickenpox virus that is dormant in your nerve endings before it turns into shingles. Even in people who do have a shingles outbreak after receiving the shot, the booster helps with some of the complications that can happen from shingles- including encephalitis, blindness, deafness and a long-term burning sensation that can last for months (post-herpetic neuralgia).

Just ask rareboy how bad it gets. He was threatening suicide.

 

[KaraBulut]

Just ask rareboy how bad it gets. He was threatening suicide.

I've had patients describe it as being like the sensation of having your clothes ironed while you're wearing them. And there's no relief- it burns when you're awake and it burns when you're asleep. Because it's a pain that originates in the nerve endings, it's not as easy to manage the pain with medications when compared to ordinary inflammation like a toothache or a surgical incision.

 

[gsdx]

^ I kind of imagine it as diabetic neuropathy which doesn't stop.

 

[G-Lexington]

I had a bout of shingles just over a year ago. And I apparently had it in the worst possible spot - the upper right side of my head. It affected my eye, nose and ear, although most of it was on my forehead and under my hair. It wasn't as painful as it can sometimes get. You ever stick your hand out of a moving car for a lengthy time, and when you pull it back inside, it feels "tingly/dead"? That's what it felt like. But, as KB pointed out, there's no relief. It didn't fade away. It felt like that 24/7. I couldn't sleep because the feeling was so distracting and intense. During my first week, I was sleeping sitting up, head in hands, for about ten minutes at a time, for a total of maybe two hours a night. I was slathering my face with lidocaine and even rubbing it into my scalp to try to get some relief. I had to stop wearing my glasses as the feeling would intensify with the glasses resting against my nose and side of my head. I was exhausted and felt like I was about to go mad.

Luckily, the prescriptions started to kick in, and I could at least sleep for about half an hour at a stretch for the second week. That was enough to get me to feeling semi-normal again. But the after-effects continue. I still only have about 60% of the feeling in my upper right side of my face. I went to get my eyes checked recently, and the eye doctor said there was some "significant scarring" inside my right eye (although, thankfully, it hasn't seemed to affect my vision).

But yeah, shingles is a bitch.

Lex

 

[eastofeden]

OK..have a bit of time again and I surfed the Internet and found this:

Two important FDA approved changes to the warning label of Merck Pharmaceutical’s shingles vaccine, Zostavax, have been made since the controversial drug was introduced in 2006. The first was in August 2014, when, in addition to potentially causing chickenpox, another side effect was added: shingles! That’s right. The vaccine that had been – and continues to be -- aggressively marketed to prevent seniors from contracting this excruciating condition was found to actually cause shingles in some individuals.

http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-re...les-vaccine-can-cause-eye-damage-and-shingles

...so I have to call my lady to figure out if it has anything to do with a sensitive body and maybe with vaccines I develop the disease instead of prevent it. I am gonna be pissed off if I go 3 for 3...

BTW...@freefall....I think hypochondria is much different than physical empathy but I can understand why anyone might come to that conclusion. There aren't many...but there are enough people who understand it though and the tools I have gotten from some of them work perfectly. It would be way easier to deal with if it was hypochondria.

The only reason I bring it up is that I have been wondering why the two vaccines came with the two diseases I had never had before in my life. Instead of protecting me..they gave me the virus. Once and I might go with the explanation but twice? I am less likely to believe it now.

I also managed to avoid any kind of AIDS or HIV and I was a slut so I have always had a question about different bodies and how they react to different diseases and drugs...and my physical empathy is just one thought of many and I wonder if it has any effect in the big picture....it might have no effect...I just want better answers....

Two people I know well...both in their 90s..never had the flu or pneumonia and never had either shot....and I wonder if I had stayed in that camp with them if I would have avoided both the flu and pneumonia as well....and so I am gonna ask them now too if they had chicken pox or the shingles shot.

Has anyone here who had shingles also had a shot beforehand? I totally want to go and get one.....and I just don't want it to give me the shingles.....

 

[eastofeden]

Oh yeah...I found sorta what I was looking for. I mentioned about different bodies...I am wondering now about genetics and how much of a factor it is when getting these shots?

I was in places where everyone had the flu and never got it....over and over again in my life..the whole house was sick except for me....I drank out of my husbands cup when he had the flu and nada...until I got the flu shot.

I like this reseacrh....

With the discovery of autoimmune/inflammatory syndrome induced by adjuvants (ASIA), the work of leading researchers from 14 countries on the role of adjuvants in different vaccines and how they can induce diverse autoimmune clinical manifestations in genetically prone individuals has been published in the newly released medical textbook, Vaccines and Autoimmunity.
The textbook, which is intended for advanced students and researchers working in pathogenic and epidemiological studies , was edited by Yehuda Shoenfeld, Nancy Agmon-Levin and Lucija Tomljenovic , and published by John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

http://www.cmsri.org/for-physicians/

 

[freefall]

^The link actually focuses more to exaggerated immune system against antibody (hypersensitivity events or even autoimmune diseases), something not unheard of in relation to vaccinations. These groups of diseases are in a completely different field from infectious diseases.

OK..have a bit of time again and I surfed the Internet and found this:

http://info.cmsri.org/the-driven-re...les-vaccine-can-cause-eye-damage-and-shingles

...so I have to call my lady to figure out if it has anything to do with a sensitive body and maybe with vaccines I develop the disease instead of prevent it. I am gonna be pissed off if I go 3 for 3...

The thing about side effects is they are extremely rare. It's of course not the same as the severe side effect is nonexistent, but at worst only 2-3 in a million or even 10 million vaccinated people would actually have this. It's a very minute risk; something you should know about but not having your head wrapped around it.

Also, I just remember something why some vaccines actually cannot cause you to get the disease you're vaccinated against: not all vaccines contain the actual live virus/bacteria that is the causal agent, no matter how weakened. Some contains dead/inactivated virus/bacteria, which cannot trigger an infection since they're not alive. Some others contain only particles of the bacteria/virus (think of it like the skin or hair of them), which are nevertheless the main trigger of the immune system and therefore will ignite the immune system while being non-infectious on their own.

Flu shots are mostly weakened virus, so there is a very minute risk of infection. More of than not though, the symptoms experienced such as fever and runny nose, are actually flu-like symptoms, a constellation of symptoms exhibited as a sign of the immune system actually triggered by the vaccine. Shingles shots fall into the same group.

Pneumonia shots, on the other way, contains only particles of the bacteria wall proteins, therefore are capable of inducing the immune system but are completely unable to actually cause the disease itself. Likewise flu shots and other shots, people may also experience fever and rarely flu-like symptoms. When people catch pneumonia right after the vaccine, chances are more likely the vaccine doesn't convey the protection or the person comes into contact with another pneumonia-causing germs not protected by the vaccine during the more vulnerable immune condition after the shots.

Again, not discounting your perception about your body condition, just more info to digest and perhaps to think about your body condition. I mentioned hypocondriasis before because it's more widespread, but on no ground am I dismissing your perception here.

 

[eastofeden]

^The link actually focuses more to exaggerated immune system against antibody (hypersensitivity events or even autoimmune diseases), something not unheard of in relation to vaccinations. These groups of diseases are in a completely different field from infectious diseases.



The thing about side effects is they are extremely rare. It's of course not the same as the severe side effect is nonexistent, but at worst only 2-3 in a million or even 10 million vaccinated people would actually have this. It's a very minute risk; something you should know about but not having your head wrapped around it.

Also, I just remember something why some vaccines actually cannot cause you to get the disease you're vaccinated against: not all vaccines contain the actual live virus/bacteria that is the causal agent, no matter how weakened. Some contains dead/inactivated virus/bacteria, which cannot trigger an infection since they're not alive. Some others contain only particles of the bacteria/virus (think of it like the skin or hair of them), which are nevertheless the main trigger of the immune system and therefore will ignite the immune system while being non-infectious on their own.

Flu shots are mostly weakened virus, so there is a very minute risk of infection. More of than not though, the symptoms experienced such as fever and runny nose, are actually flu-like symptoms, a constellation of symptoms exhibited as a sign of the immune system actually triggered by the vaccine. Shingles shots fall into the same group.

Pneumonia shots, on the other way, contains only particles of the bacteria wall proteins, therefore are capable of inducing the immune system but are completely unable to actually cause the disease itself. Likewise flu shots and other shots, people may also experience fever and rarely flu-like symptoms. When people catch pneumonia right after the vaccine, chances are more likely the vaccine doesn't convey the protection or the person comes into contact with another pneumonia-causing germs not protected by the vaccine during the more vulnerable immune condition after the shots.

Again, not discounting your perception about your body condition, just more info to digest and perhaps to think about your body condition. I mentioned hypocondriasis before because it's more widespread, but on no ground am I dismissing your perception here.

Oh..trust me..most everyone thinks it is hypochondria and sincerely..I don't blame them....if you haven't experienced it you will have no way of udnerstanding....

My therapist told me that years ago not to bother telling anyone...and she told me never to go to funerals or weddings and never tell them why...I LOVE her for that. For at least some empaths..being in a room where how people are acting on the outside is different than what it happening on the inside in HELL...phony people are my krptonite...they drain my energy...

Enough of that though.....I thank you for the input and I am considering it as well as whatever I find by the end of next week as I have to go to the doctors for the eye exam and my general physical and I will either get it or decide not to at that point.

I do not necessarily think the sensitive body has anything to do with it but I need to ask someone who spends their life understanding it just in case. I am more leaning toward genetics. There are alot of things that are "odd" where my reaction or physical condition is much different than the people around me. AIDS and HIV was the first obvious one and I felt like I was in a firing squad line and everyone around me fell......but another one..I like to sweat..alot...and will exercise or work outside or dance until I am soaking wet...and I have never had ANY kind of smell at all. In my aerobics classes back in the 80s...I had people come up to smell me all the time....I thought they were annoying but my husband of course mentions it alot and to this day...no smell at all and I get really wet...I love to sweat hard...

I don't own any deoderant...never bought any or never needed any...

That at least suggests to me that my genetics or body chemistry may...or may not... play a role in this and since there are so many things that still need to be understood...I just want to make the most informed decision I can with the information available...

That way....if I decide to do it...the decision and whatever happens is all on me. I can do that if I take the time to get as much info as possible first....

 

[KaraBulut]

OK..have a bit of time again and I surfed the Internet and found this:

Two important FDA approved changes to the warning label of Merck Pharmaceutical’s shingles vaccine, Zostavax, have been made since the controversial drug was introduced in 2006. The first was in August 2014, when, in addition to potentially causing chickenpox, another side effect was added: shingles! That’s right. The vaccine that had been – and continues to be -- aggressively marketed to prevent seniors from contracting this excruciating condition was found to actually cause shingles in some individuals.

If you want to read the prescribing information for Zostavax, it's here. The warning that the paragraph above is referring to has two separate mentions:

1. If you review the studies, you'll see that this was a double-blind study, which means that one group received the actual vaccine and the other group did not get the vaccine (they received a placebo). The placebo group reported more incidents of shingles however not all of the people who reported "shingles" cultured positive for virus (which means they probably didn't have shingles).
2. Zostavax is a live-virus vaccine which means that there is live virus in the shot but it has been weakened so that it cannot cause shingles or chickenpox in a healthy person. There's multiple warnings that people who have severely compromised immune systems (e.g. people receiving chemotherapy, people on immunosuppression, people who have immune disorders) should not receive Zostavax because of the risk of having an outbreak of chickenpox or shingles. There have been no incidents where a healthy person contracted chickenpox or shingles from the vaccine.

I think the website that you quoted is referring to reports of rashes at the injection site- some of which did have the virus that causes chickenpox/shingles however this is not the same thing as getting chickenpox or shingles:
This is also on the CDC website:

There is no documentation of a person getting chickenpox from someone who has received the shingles vaccine (which contains varicella zoster virus).

Some people who get the shingles vaccine will develop a chickenpox-like rash near the place where they were vaccinated. As a precaution, this rash should be covered until it disappears.

But here is something important: we don't recommend Zostavax anymore. There's a newer, more effective vaccine for shingles (herpes zoster) called Shingrix that has a > 90% effectiveness rate in preventing shingles. Shingrix is NOT live virus. The press release for Shingrix is here.

 

[eastofeden]

If you want to read the prescribing information for Zostavax, it's here. The warning that the paragraph above is referring to has two separate mentions:

1. If you review the studies, you'll see that this was a double-blind study, which means that one group received the actual vaccine and the other group did not get the vaccine (they received a placebo). The placebo group reported more incidents of shingles.
   [*]Zostavax is a live-virus vaccine which means that there is live virus in the shot but it has been weakened so that it cannot cause shingles or chickenpox in a healthy person. There's multiple warnings that people who have severely compromised immune systems (e.g. people receiving chemotherapy, people on immunosuppression, people who have immune disorders) should not receive Zostavax because of the risk of having an outbreak of chickenpox or shingles. There have been no incidents where a healthy person contracted chickenpox or shingles from the vaccine.

I think the website that you quoted is referring to reports of rashes at the injection site- some of which did have the virus that causes chickenpox/shingles however this is not the same thing as getting chickenpox or shingles:
This is also on the CDC website:


But here is something important: we don't recommend Zostavax anymore. There's a newer, more effective vaccine for shingles (herpes zoster) called Shingrix that has a > 90% effectiveness rate in preventing shingles. The press release for Shingrix is here.

Ahhh...OK...that helps....I did see the warning about have other diseases but I didn't realize that it was in those individuals that the shot gave them shingles....

I didn't see anything about the heart on the list....

I have to make my decision soon...I am leaning toward getting it...I hope I have some clarity by the time I need to make the decision....

 

[eastofeden]

But here is something important: we don't recommend Zostavax anymore. There's a newer, more effective vaccine for shingles (herpes zoster) called Shingrix that has a > 90% effectiveness rate in preventing shingles. Shingrix is NOT live virus. The press release for Shingrix is here.

Thanks for that! I think now that I have read about Shingrix I prefer that...but I can't find if they have started using it or not? Do you know if that have in the US yet?

I checked out Walgreens and Rite Aid....can't find which they use. I could go to my own doctor as well but I am not sure I should bring it up in case it isn't approved yet. The articles said it should be available shortly....

Is shortly generally a month or two?

 

[KaraBulut]

Thanks for that! I think now that I have read about Shingrix I prefer that...but I can't find if they have started using it or not? Do you know if that have in the US yet?

The CDC recommendation for Shingrix over Zostavax came out at the end of October. One of the press releases that I saw said that GSK would begin delivering Shingrix as soon as the end of November. You can check with your local pharmacy but I would expect to see Shingrix replacing Zostavax in early 2018 at most clinics and pharmacies.

The one difference between the two immunizations is that Shingrix is two shots given 2 months apart. But given the success rate and the fact that CDC is even recommending Shingrix for people who got Zostavax in the past, it's worth waiting for Shingrix.