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Vanishing Gay Cultural References

KaraBulut

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Occasionally, when I'm talking to younger gay guys, I make a reference to something that results in a blank stare because they have no idea what the hell I'm talking about.

There's a few artists like Lypsinka who have entire shows built around these things that gay men know (or used to know) but it seems like those references are being lost. Maybe it's time to document some of those things?

Here's an example: There's a scene in The Valley of the Dolls where Neely O'Hara has a necklace that somehow keeps getting stuck on her otherwise flat chest. This reference earned a blank stare this weekend.

Here's the picture:
Neely+O%2527Hara.jpg


And the "boob necklace" wardrobe malfunction:
13330383153_e48aa15669_b.jpg

neely_necklace.jpg


Follow the bouncing pill bottle:
View attachment It's Impossible-- Valley of the Dolls.mp4

 
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^Which reminds me....

In my original post, I mentioned "Lypsinka". A lot of under 30 gays are saying, "What's a Lypsinka?".

Lypsinka is a "drag artist" who has a show built around lip synching famous female actresses from the golden age of moviemaking (like Joan Crawford). Long before middle class housewives were running around saying "Yas Queen!", drag performers were making lip synching an art form.

Here's a clip of Lypsinka performing back in the 90s on the Joan Rivers show:

View attachment The Amazing Lypsinka (John Epperson) on Joan Rivers.mp4


At the end of the clip are two very famous things that are classic gay entertainment:
  • There's a soundbite from "Mommie Dearest" where Faye Dunaway is performing as Joan Crawford. She's about the beat the shit out of her daughter Christina who deserves that slap.
  • There's a version of "Get Me To The Church On Time" which is a song from the musical "My Fair Lady". Lypsinka is lip synching to a performance of the song by Marilyn Maye, although the more famous versions of the song were recorded by Rosemary Clooney (yes, George Clooney's aunt) and Frank Sinatra.
 
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Next question: Who is Marilyn Maye?

The appropriate tense to use is present tense because Miss Maye is alive and still performing in her 90s. She does shows in Provincetown for the boys every summer. Her voice is still amazing.

Here's the 1965 Marilyn Maye cover of "Get Me To The Church On Time":

Performing "Misty" live in the mid 60s:

And Miss Maye performing live this year:
 
I don't know if this would qualify but the references make me LMAO - and are true to life

 
I don't know if this would qualify but the references make me LMAO - and are true to life

That's from Cho's live show called "I'm the One That I Want". I saw that show in person with a group of friends. When she said the line about how gay men will leave your ass at the bar if they hookup with someone, we all looked at each other because we knew it was true. ;)

The best part of that show is when she talks about her mother's job managing the gay porn section in a bookstore:




"He only like Ass... and Judy Garland!".
 
That's from Cho's live show called "I'm the One That I Want". I saw that show in person with a group of friends. When she said the line about how gay men will leave your ass at the bar if they hookup with someone, we all looked at each other because we knew it was true. ;)

The best part of that show is when she talks about her mother's job managing the gay porn section in a bookstore:




"He only like Ass... and Judy Garland!".
This made me LMAO - I used to hang out on Polk and also south of Market and Haight areas - the sense of humor and the sexy men were there...whats not to love.

Castro - UGH - no sense of humor and clones aren't really sexy to me.

...and the fag hag ditch at the bars :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: I was on both ends of it - I did it myself ALOT in my early 20s but I was also on the receiving end with my friends asking me to watch out for fill in the blank so I had to babysit with alot of awkward moments - one of them used to get drunk and get this weird ass look on her face and glazed over eyes and start biting people:bartshock
 
"He like two things: Ass and Judy Garland"

Why did gays of a certain age like Judy Garland? Why do younger gays think that all she did was "The Wizard of Oz" (yeah, that movie that is like "Wicked")?

The way that I explain it to younger gays is that Judy Garland was Elvis for gay men back in the 1950s and 1960s. Or another way to put it was that she was a mess offstage but when the stage lights came on, she transformed into a seasoned performer who gave everything to the audience: a "caterpillar into a butterfly" meme.

Below is the movie version of "The Man That Got Away" from "A Star Is Born" which was released in 1954. The director of "A Star Is Born" was a gay man, George Cukor, who was known for directing some of the female stars of the era. During the filming, Judy was a mess- small, frail with a drug and alcohol problem- she nevertheless gave a performance that earned her an Oscar nomination (she lost to Grace Kelly).


The version of the song that ended up in the movie was one of several versions that were recorded for the film. The studio kept changing the script and the movie was shot using two different types of film. Because of the different filming techniques, multiple takes were done. In the 1980s, film archivists located multiple alternate takes that were not used in the theater version of the film.





"The Man That Away" became one of Garland's signature songs that she performed in her live shows. The song was written by Harold Arlen, who also wrote "Over the Rainbow":
 
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Not that many young gays are familiar with Cruising (the movie and sometimes even the act), the underground S&M/leather scene, the hanky code...Might be wrong, but I suspect activists desperately sanitizing our community to make it as safe and family-friendly as possible are to blame.
 
Not that many young gays are familiar with Cruising (the movie and sometimes even the act), the underground S&M/leather scene, the hanky code...Might be wrong, but I suspect activists desperately sanitizing our community to make it as safe and family-friendly as possible are to blame.
It was controversial when it first came out. In the cities, the gays picketed it. In the smaller towns, the Christians picketed. All the picketing made everyone want to go see it.

At the movie theater where I saw it, I had to walk through a picket line to buy the ticket. This also started a lifetime habit of when I see evangelicals picketing anything, I stop and buy a ticket whether or not I plan on actually attending the event.

Cruising was directed by William Friedkin, who had directed "The Exorcist" several years earlier. "Cruising" was sensationalized and a little unrealistic although it was in keeping with other murder-focused movies that came out around the same time, like "Dressed to Kill", "Looking for Mr Goodbar" and "The Eyes of Laura Mars". It was one of the few movies from the 20th century where the gay men weren't pansies, weren't cross-dressers and where they commit suicide out of shame. In most of these murder movies from the 80s, a beautiful woman or a gay man was usually the murderer or the murder victim, though. :rolleyes:

Today, it's somewhat viewed as a mixed bag. Many of the background actors were hired from the BDSM subculture. Quite a few of them died in the next decade from HIV. The ending is less-than-satisfying. Are we supposed to believe that a straight guy hanging out in leather bars is going to be turned into a serial killer? Did the cop get a little too involved in his sting operation? Does every NYPD precinct have a black guy in a jockstrap sitting around reading a newspaper?


You might be interested in the latest season of American Horror Story, as it has several scenes that are an homage to Cruising.


I've attached a clip from AHS with the homage:
View attachment InterrogationScene-American Horror Story S11E02.mp4

Al Pacino in "Cruising":
PacinoAl_Cruising-15.jpgPacinoAl_Cruising-11.jpg


Russell Tovey in "American Horror Story":
ToveyRussell_AmericanHorrorStory-S11E06-FgqI433WYAElG5f-light.jpgToveyRussell_AmericanHorrorStory-S11E06-FhO5WgJaYAAK80v-sm.jpg
 
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Yes, I'm very much familiar with Cruising's backstory. It has its shortcomings, but still, I prefer it over the chick flick for gays formula that's being followed by modern gay films. Gritty, dark flick featuring leather-clad, rough and tough wolves and bears > cutesy, light flick featuring twinky, sensitive pretty boys (or as you put it, pansies). Its soundtrack is dope, too, what with the take-no-shit hard rock and punk; better than the poppy, emotional songs featured on the likes of Love, Simon and Heartstopper.

I'm not a fan of AHS, ergo, I had no idea about its recent production. I'll look into it, thank you for letting me know about its existence.
 
Yes, I'm very much familiar with Cruising's backstory. It has its shortcomings, but still, I prefer it over the chick flick for gays formula that's being followed by modern gay films. Gritty, dark flick featuring leather-clad, rough and tough wolves and bears > cutesy, light flick featuring twinky, sensitive pretty boys (or as you put it, pansies). Its soundtrack is dope, too, what with the take-no-shit hard rock and punk; better than the poppy, emotional songs featured on the likes of Love, Simon and Heartstopper.
I had forgotten about all of the drama around "Cruising" and it's often missing from lists of Al Pacino's movies. Your post brought back the memories of the movie, the controversy and the effort that it took to see the movie in a theater.

Each of the shows that you mentioned have their pros and cons. For all its controversy, "Cruising" wasn't as painful as watching "Bros" because you knew that "Cruising" was going to be imperfect and controversial. "Bros" suffered from higher expectations. Both movies have something in common though: they gave the impression that urban gay men in a gay ghetto represented all gay men.

"Pansy" is another word that has dropped out of common usage. It didn't describe "pretty boys". It was a derogatory term for a specific type of effeminate, queeny gay man. Pansies weren't necessarily young or pretty. They just weren't "men" in the way that society viewed men.

I mentioned "Eyes of Laura Mars". This movie had it all - sex, violence, Faye Dunaway and lots of pansies. The pansies do what pansies usually did in movies from the period: they were always adjusting peoples hair/makeup, dancing around in harem pants ...and either killing or being killed.




The top-billed pansy was Donald Phelps, portrayed by Rene Auberjonois. He was surrogate mother to Laura Mars, portrayed by Dunaway. He's always there, cigarette between his index and middle finger (the way that all pansies smoked their cigarettes!). His hair is always big and he is costumed with big floppy hats and neck kerchiefs... and lots of beige.

1671971779449.jpeg
EVgmYabX0AEbS11.jpg
eyeslauramars12.jpg

Donald Phelps is a stereotypical pansy. He dresses up in women's clothes. That can only mean one of two things in the movie: either he's the killer or he's going to be dead before the end of the movie (or both). Pansies never survived in movies made in the 20th century. ;)


...I'm not a fan of AHS, ergo, I had no idea about its recent production. I'll look into it, thank you for letting me know about its existence.
The first season of AHS will always be the best season for me.

The latest season is an homage to the post-Stonewall/pre-AIDS gay culture in NYC. It has a lot of references to culture touchstones of the time- Mapplethorpe, "Cruising", et al. The gay men are the murderers and the murdered but their role in the carnage isn't because they are gay, necessarily. That might be considered "progress" in the same way that two young boys falling in love in "Love Victor" or "Heartstopper" is progress, although "Heartstopper" manages to not kill off all the gay people by the time the credits roll.
 
"Bros" suffered from higher expectations.
Tbh, it's p hard to have high expectations for a movie that's just another throwaway rom-com. And as cynical as it may sound, I'm p sure a lot of the positive reviews made by hetero film critics are them just holding back their real opinion in order to avoid accusations of homophobia. Of course, that changes when gay viewers tell it as it is, so to speak. The writing is as clichéd and average as any other throwaway rom-com; the fact that it focuses on a gay couple rather than a straight one doesn't automatically make it immune to that. It's especially amusing when hetero progressivists (the ones who are everyday people, not film critics) rave about how "incredible" said film, the recent Hallmark Christmas films (loool), and the other ones I listed in my previous post are. Dude, they're not "incredible," they're just average; quit lying to yourself.
Both movies have something in common though: they gave the impression that urban gay men in a gay ghetto represented all gay men.
That's p much inevitable when the overwhelming majority of audiences is composed of straight people. They watch a movie like Love, Simon, they think, "Ah, so that's how gays are; clean-shaven, sensitive, pretty, boyish-looking, in touch with their feminine side..." They watch a movie like Cruising, they think, "Ah, so that's how gays are, Freddy Mercury clones, creepy, perverted, fond of leather, manly..." They can't seem to get in their heads that the gay population is diverse, composed of people with different personalities, ways of thinking, likes, etc, and that the movie is representing one section of the population. Again, it's especially amusing (or sad) when hetero progressivists are the ones who are guilty of that, since it goes against what they believe. I remember during my brief time attending college in the US a lot of the kids (I was a lot older than them, so they were kids to me) there who'd preach about how liberal (as they call it) they are would contradict themselves by relying on stereotypes as a guidebook to identify gay people; the old "he looks gay" and "he doesn't look gay." It could be argued that they're just kids who are still learning, but eh, there were plenty of grown adult students and professors who seemed to think that way, too.
 
Here's an example: There's a scene in The Valley of the Dolls where Neely O'Hara has a necklace that somehow keeps getting stuck on her otherwise flat chest. This reference earned a blank stare this weekend.

As with MYSELF, that "blank stare" may have been coming from "how the hell is THAT a 'gay reference ?"
 
As with MYSELF, that "blank stare" may have been coming from "how the hell is THAT a 'gay reference ?"
The whole movie is a gay reference.

It was an awful movie that was supposed to be a dramatization of the Judy Garland story. It's over-the-top in every way possible. It is a movie that should be viewed in a room full of gay men with a lot of alcohol being served.

"I'll Plant My Own Tree"


"Broadway doesn't go for boooooooze and dope!"


"You know how bitchy fags can be."


The role of Helen Lawson, portrayed by Susan Hayward in the final version of the movie, was originally supposed to be played by Judy Garland. Garland did press junkets to promote the movie before it started filming. She attended the wedding of her daughter Liza to Peter Allen shortly before flying to the west coast to do costume fittings and test shots for the movie. What happened next is a matter of conjecture but it appeared that the studio or the director (or both) set Garland up to fail by creating conditions where she was too drunk or high to complete the movie.

Garland was fired, which was a publicity boon for the film. Garland managed to get paid a portion of her salary. Patty Duke said in an interview later that she went to see Garland perform in concert and Garland walked onto the stage wearing some of the outfits that had been made for her for "Valley of the Dolls". It's unclear whether Garland negotiated to get the clothes or whether she just took them when she was fired.
 
Tbh, it's p hard to have high expectations for a movie that's just another throwaway rom-com. And as cynical as it may sound, I'm p sure a lot of the positive reviews made by hetero film critics are them just holding back their real opinion in order to avoid accusations of homophobia. Of course, that changes when gay viewers tell it as it is, so to speak. The writing is as clichéd and average as any other throwaway rom-com; the fact that it focuses on a gay couple rather than a straight one doesn't automatically make it immune to that. It's especially amusing when hetero progressivists (the ones who are everyday people, not film critics) rave about how "incredible" said film, the recent Hallmark Christmas films (loool), and the other ones I listed in my previous post are. Dude, they're not "incredible," they're just average; quit lying to yourself.
LGBT characters have come the full circle now.

In the post WWII period, gays were portrayed in movies as the spy-traitor, the weak effeminate pansy or the predatory evil character. They almost always were killed by the end of the movie.

Then came the "dying from AIDS" period in the 1990s where all of the characters were uniformly sympathetic, tragic and dead by the end of the movie.

Then there was the "gay best friend" period. During this time, they were the sexless foil for the top-billed actors. The gay best friends were there to be the jester for the movie while the main character got all of the drama, love and sex.

Recently, gay characters are getting more "normalized". They can still be the best friend but they can also be in the primary storyline and they can have sex, be imperfect and do all the things that the rest of the characters get to do, including falling in love.

It only makes sense that LGBT also get to be in really bad rom-coms and Hallmark movies. They've finally achieved the Holy Grail of entertainment: mediocrity.

"Bros" is a bad movie. It just makes no sense that Luke McFarlane would be pursuing Billy Eichner. And it's confusing in that by being an over-the-top absurd parody, it ended up being an inside joke that gay people didn't want to see. Straight people were never going to get it.

There's another similar storyline in "Smiley" which is running on Netflix. It does a much better job of presenting a story of an unlikely same-sex couple without being over-the-top and unbelievable. The core ideas in "Smiley" - that we self-sabotage and pick the wrong people is something that everyone - gay, straight and in-between- can better relate to.

That's p much inevitable when the overwhelming majority of audiences is composed of straight people. They watch a movie like Love, Simon, they think, "Ah, so that's how gays are; clean-shaven, sensitive, pretty, boyish-looking, in touch with their feminine side..." They watch a movie like Cruising, they think, "Ah, so that's how gays are, Freddy Mercury clones, creepy, perverted, fond of leather, manly..." They can't seem to get in their heads that the gay population is diverse, composed of people with different personalities, ways of thinking, likes, etc, and that the movie is representing one section of the population. Again, it's especially amusing (or sad) when hetero progressivists are the ones who are guilty of that, since it goes against what they believe. I remember during my brief time attending college in the US a lot of the kids (I was a lot older than them, so they were kids to me) there who'd preach about how liberal (as they call it) they are would contradict themselves by relying on stereotypes as a guidebook to identify gay people; the old "he looks gay" and "he doesn't look gay." It could be argued that they're just kids who are still learning, but eh, there were plenty of grown adult students and professors who seemed to think that way, too.
When the original rainbow flag was promoted as a gay symbol 50 years ago, the idea was that the colors in the flag didn't represent any specific thing other than a representation of how diverse the "Lesbian and Gay" communities were. That's always been one of the strengths of the community- that sexual orientation is a trait that isn't limited to one particular socio-economic, ethnic, religious or other societal subculture. It also makes it hard as fuck to portray in entertainment.

There probably are "clean-shaven, sensitive, pretty, boyish-looking, in touch with their feminine side" who live in the suburbs with their loving still-married parents. There are "Freddy Mercury clones, creepy, perverted, fond of leather, manly" guys who live in large urban areas. How do you create entertainment that portrays such a diverse group of people in a way that a large audience can relate to?

That is one of the problems with entertainment for gay people, made by gay people, written by gay people, performed by gay and intended for gay people is that it will only portray the limited gay experiences of those gay people who were involved. That's what happened with "Bros", probably. There were just too many inside jokes that only affluent gays living in Chelsea in NYC (and summering on Fire Island and Provincetown) would get. The rest of us were thinking, "If he said that to my mother, that would have been the end."

There was a funny scene in the series "Uncoupled" where Neil Patrick Harris, newly single, manages to get into bed with uber-hot dermatologist Peter Porte, only to discover that Porte has a huge dick. NPH is uncertain whether he will be able to accommodate Porte's huge dick. Porte reassures NPH that it will fit and just in case, he offers him a shot of anal botox. The scene is funny and is like some of the hysterical situations that the series "Sex and the City" (also a Darren Star production) captured. The problem is that a gay person living in Mississippi or Ohio is probably going to look at that and think, "WTF? Anal botox is a thing?". And a straight person living just about anywhere is going to think, "Gay people botox their buttholes?".

View attachment HarrisNeilPatrick&PortePeter_Uncoupled-S01E05.mp4

 
A while back, a younger friend of mine was talking about seeing Lady Gaga in "A Star is Born". We got on the subject of how it compared to the previous version.

The younger friend got a puzzled look on his face. "Previous version?".

🤦

The Bradley Cooper/Lady Gaga vehicle was at least the 4th version of the same story.

A Star is Born (1937) - Janet Gaynor/Frederick March

A Star is Born (1954) - Judy Garland/James Mason

A Star Is Born (1976) - Barbra Streisand/Kris Kristofferson

A Star Is Born (2018) - Bradley Cooper, Lady Gaga


All of these movies had a lineage that went back to a 1932 George Cukor movie - "What Price Hollywood?" - which borrowed from the real-life stories of several male Hollywood luminaries whose careers were eclipsed by women in their life, resulting in their decline (booze and dope!) and ultimate death by suicide.


Cukor was offered the 1937 "A Star is Born" and declined. He did direct the 1954 "A Star is Born". He had the wisdom to not direct the 1976 "A Star is Born". He was dead in 2018 and couldn't direct the 2018 "A Star is Born".
 
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Tales of the City - the vibe and multiple characters and themes throughout the series of movies


 
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