Vanishing Gay Cultural References

[Nude_Dude]

The whole movie is a gay reference.

It was an awful movie that was supposed to be a dramatization of the Judy Garland story. It's over-the-top in every way possible. It is a movie that should be viewed in a room full of gay men with a lot of alcohol being served.

It may have come across as "the whole movie is a gay reference" - but I don't think this was the producers' intent.
As if making a film adaption of a Jacqueline Susann novel wasn't doomed for failure.
The script was appalling - as was the choice of director, who everyone clashed swords with - would never work again in the industry.
Patty Dukes career high point would be The Oscar for her portrayal of Helen Keller, in "The Miracle Worker"
This stinker would have to be her all-time LOW.
She's said in her autobiography, she suffered many bi-polar episodes during the production.

But back to the "gay cultural reference"
I have a younger sister who is a film buff - but not gay
The two of us roar with laughter - whenever we put it on - and talk aloud every bit of this atrocious excuse for a 'script'
My reaction is more in 'film critic" mode - over 'gay' mode.

So what I was saying, it obviously 'appeals' to an older gay audience - we can't really claim it as ours, exclusively.
I'd be interested in today's 18yo gay kid's reaction seeing it for the first time.

 

[KaraBulut]

It may have come across as "the whole movie is a gay reference" - but I don't think this was the producers' intent.
As if making a film adaption of a Jacqueline Susann novel wasn't doomed for failure.

Well, let's be clear: "Valley of the Dolls", the book and the movie, were both hits! We think of the movie as a flop because the critics hated it but the movie made $45 million against a budget or $5 million. It was one of Fox's biggest hits.

It even inspired a Carol Burnett parody:

The novel (if you can call it that) was a roman à clef and was rife with speculation as to who the various characters were representing. Susann was also a piece of work: a hard-drinking, potty-mouthed, failed actress with a publicist husband. Susann was everywhere on the talk-show circuit because she gave a great interview.

The script was appalling ...

But very true to the dialogue in the book!

- as was the choice of director, who everyone clashed swords with - would never work again in the industry.

Oh he did work!

In the mid-70s, there was a trend of "disaster movies" that featured famous stars and athletes in the waning years of their careers. Mark Robson directed "Earthquake!".

Patty Dukes career high point would be The Oscar for her portrayal of Helen Keller, in "The Miracle Worker"
This stinker would have to be her all-time LOW.
She's said in her autobiography, she suffered many bi-polar episodes during the production.

At the time, I didn't know about Patty Duke's childhood and her stage career. By the time people in my generation were introduced to Patty Duke, it was from appearances on television- on shows like "The Love Boat" and frequent guest appearances on variety shows and talk shows. It wasn't until years later when her autobiography came out that we learned about what was happening behind-the-scenes in Duke's life. To her credit, she was one of the first celebrities to come out as bipolar and talk about her experiences with the illness.

In an interview at a screening of "Valley of the Dolls", Patty Duke talked working with Mark Robson and Judy Garland on "Valley of the Dolls":

So what I was saying, it obviously 'appeals' to an older gay audience - we can't really claim it as ours, exclusively.
I'd be interested in today's 18yo gay kid's reaction seeing it for the first time.

The movie can be appreciated on multiple levels.

When I first saw the movie back in the 70s, I viewed it as I would any movie. It something that we watched behind our parents' back because the movie was so scandalous. By then, the movie was associated with the Charles Manson, because one of the "breakout stars" of the movie had been murdered by the Manson Family shortly after the movie came out.

When I saw the movie again a decade later, I was older and gayer and it was then that I "got" how campy it is. That brought a different appreciation for the movie. I've probably seen it all the way through a dozen or more times and it makes me laugh. It is especially fun to watch with someone who hasn't seen it before (and who can appreciate the camp).

Ah... "Gillian Girl"...

There's also a stage re-enactment of the movie that is usually performed with drag queens.

 

[KaraBulut]

Sword and Sandal Movies. Aka Gladiator movies. Aka Peplum.

On Saturday morning, along with cartoons, there was often an old movie featuring classic Greek mythology... and half-naked young men in loincloths, very short togas and sandals.

While there may have been an agenda to educate us all on the classics, it may have accomplished something else.

Kirk Douglas and extras in "Ulysses" (1954):

Steve Reeves in "Hercules" (1958):

Steve Reeves in "Duel of the Titans" (1961):

Rory Calhoun in "The Collosus of Rhodes" (1961):

Harry Hamlin* in "Clash of the Titans" (1981):
*The movie somehow managed to feature Hamlin's exposed nipple throughout most of the movie.

 

[Thomas80]

Not that many young gays are familiar with Cruising (the movie and sometimes even the act), the underground S&M/leather scene, the hanky code...Might be wrong, but I suspect activists desperately sanitizing our community to make it as safe and family-friendly as possible are to blame.

The hanky code seems to be making a comeback, for example this guy:

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

& there's also this:
https://www.andrewchristian.com/blogs/acblog/are-jockstraps-the-new-hanky-code

 

[KaraBulut]

In the latter part of the 20th century, there were a number of murders of gay men that went unsolved. More than a few of them turned out to be the work of serial killers who targeted gay men.

In some cases, the perpetrator was caught by chance when a victim escaped, like in the case of Jeffrey Dahmer. Most of the cases were never solved and the investigators didn't seem to be particularly motivated to solve them.

One set of serial murders took over 30 years to solve, even though the men who committed the crimes were convicted of other murders of gay men. One such crime was the murder of porn model Billy London. Billy London, real name William Arnold Newton, was murdered in Oct, 1990. He had been featured in gay adult films such as "Head of the Class" and then transitioned to producing adult films. London is the blond in the blue shirt appearing with Eric Manchester:

View attachment BillyLondon&DeanChasson&EricManchester_HeadOfTheClass .mp4

Billy London aka William Arnold Newton:


On 29-Oct-1990, London went to a West Hollywood night club to celebrate Hallowe'en. The next morning, his dismembered body was found in a dumpster by a homeless person. Only London's head and feet were recovered from the dumpster and the rest of his body was never found. The LAPD made a cursory investigation into London's murder, even considering whether Wisconsin mass murderer Jeffrey Dahmer might be the perpetrator. But the case went unsolved and the detectives moved on to other cases.


In 2007, a White Supremacist named Darrell Lynn Madden was charged with the murder of a gay man in Oklahoma. Madden and another man had murdered at least two gay men in Oklahoma as part of an initiation into the United Aryan Brotherhood.

Gay Man's Killer Gets Life in Prison

Darrell Lynn Madden was sentenced to four consecutive life terms in prison on Thursday after admitting to killing a 62-year-old gay man in Oklahoma City last year, reports The Oklahoman.

www.advocate.com

Fast forward to 2022.

Rachel Mason, the documentary director who did a film about LA gay bookstore Circus of Books had an interest in trying to find who killed Billy London. She and Clark Williams, a gay activist, started working on a documentary about Billy London's murder. While doing their research, they ran across an interview with Darrell Lynn Madden, the Oklahoma man who murdered the gay men in Oklahoma. Madden, who was now a transwoman named Daralyn Madden, mentioned in the interview that she had also done gay porn in LA under the name "Billy Houston". While in LA during her porn career, Madden confessed that she had committed murders.

Billy Houston aka Darrell Lynn Madden:


Darrell Lyn Madden in 2008:


Daralyn Madden in 2022:


A former detective arranged to meet with Daralyn Madden in an Oklahoma prison. During the interview, Madden confessed to Billy London's murder. It took 32 years to solve the crime. The LAPD didn't solve the crime. It was two activists - one who was a documentarian and one who was a gay activist - to find Billy London's killer.

Ex-SJ leader solves cold case murder of gay porn actor

How did a gay stay-at-home married dad end up solving the 33-year-old cold case murder of a Los Angeles gay porn star?

www.ebar.com

Avenging Billy: How amateur sleuths took on a gay porn actor’s haunting Hollywood murder

Local sleuths help find a suspect in gay porn actor Bill Newton's murder. His dismembered head and feet were found in a Hollywood dumpster in 1990.

www.latimes.com

If you like podcasts. the Dinner Party Show has several retrospective issues about the unsolved murder and how their podcast became the mechanism for the network of people who solved the case that the LAPD couldn't (or wouldn't) solve.

The Murder of William Arnold (Billy) Newton: Episode Guide | The Dinner Party ShowThe Dinner Party Show

Christopher & Eric podcast episode guide for the Billy Newton murder, which helped identify his killer after more than 30 years.

thedinnerpartyshow.com

 

[KaraBulut]

Recently, I was talking about a Netflix series that had just premiered and we both asked, "So, which one is the gay character?". In 2025, it's pretty much a given that at least one of the characters will fall into broad category between "totally straight" and "totally gay".

It wasn't always that way, although we have to go back to 1975 to revisit the introduction of gay characters on network television shows for the first time.

Matt Baume did a great overview of the controversy in the mid-70s. It's hard to believe that 50 years later, we still have evangelicals who are fighting against LGBT representation on TV.

 

[KaraBulut]

For a reminder of how things used to be...

This is a 1974 episode of the TV show "Policewoman" that featured Angie Dickinson and Earl Holliman. The episode featured a trio of "killer lesbians" who murdered nursing home residents.

Fun fact: Earl Holliman was gay and had a husband at the time of his death in 2024.

 

[Franco Verum]

Polari. The lost language of our people.

 

[Franco Verum]

In the latter part of the 20th century, there were a number of murders of gay men that went unsolved. More than a few of them turned out to be the work of serial killers who targeted gay men.

In some cases, the perpetrator was caught by chance when a victim escaped, like in the case of Jeffrey Dahmer. Most of the cases were never solved and the investigators didn't seem to be particularly motivated to solve them.

One set of serial murders took over 30 years to solve, even though the men who committed the crimes were convicted of other murders of gay men. One such crime was the murder of porn model Billy London. Billy London, real name William Arnold Newton, was murdered in Oct, 1990. He had been featured in gay adult films such as "Head of the Class" and then transitioned to producing adult films. London is the blond in the blue shirt appearing with Eric Manchester:

View attachment 2705600

Billy London aka William Arnold Newton:
View attachment 2705596

On 29-Oct-1990, London went to a West Hollywood night club to celebrate Hallowe'en. The next morning, his dismembered body was found in a dumpster by a homeless person. Only London's head and feet were recovered from the dumpster and the rest of his body was never found. The LAPD made a cursory investigation into London's murder, even considering whether Wisconsin mass murderer Jeffrey Dahmer might be the perpetrator. But the case went unsolved and the detectives moved on to other cases.


In 2007, a White Supremacist named Darrell Lynn Madden was charged with the murder of a gay man in Oklahoma. Madden and another man had murdered at least two gay men in Oklahoma as part of an initiation into the United Aryan Brotherhood.

Gay Man's Killer Gets Life in Prison

Darrell Lynn Madden was sentenced to four consecutive life terms in prison on Thursday after admitting to killing a 62-year-old gay man in Oklahoma City last year, reports The Oklahoman.

www.advocate.com

Fast forward to 2022.

Rachel Mason, the documentary director who did a film about LA gay bookstore Circus of Books had an interest in trying to find who killed Billy London. She and Clark Williams, a gay activist, started working on a documentary about Billy London's murder. While doing their research, they ran across an interview with Darrell Lynn Madden, the Oklahoma man who murdered the gay men in Oklahoma. Madden, who was now a transwoman named Daralyn Madden, mentioned in the interview that she had also done gay porn in LA under the name "Billy Houston". While in LA during her porn career, Madden confessed that she had committed murders.

Billy Houston aka Darrell Lynn Madden:
View attachment 2705570

Darrell Lyn Madden in 2008:
View attachment 2705608

Daralyn Madden in 2022:
View attachment 2705622

A former detective arranged to meet with Daralyn Madden in an Oklahoma prison. During the interview, Madden confessed to Billy London's murder. It took 32 years to solve the crime. The LAPD didn't solve the crime. It was two activists - one who was a documentarian and one who was a gay activist - to find Billy London's killer.

Ex-SJ leader solves cold case murder of gay porn actor

How did a gay stay-at-home married dad end up solving the 33-year-old cold case murder of a Los Angeles gay porn star?

www.ebar.com

Avenging Billy: How amateur sleuths took on a gay porn actor’s haunting Hollywood murder

Local sleuths help find a suspect in gay porn actor Bill Newton's murder. His dismembered head and feet were found in a Hollywood dumpster in 1990.

www.latimes.com

If you like podcasts. the Dinner Party Show has several retrospective issues about the unsolved murder and how their podcast became the mechanism for the network of people who solved the case that the LAPD couldn't (or wouldn't) solve.

The Murder of William Arnold (Billy) Newton: Episode Guide | The Dinner Party ShowThe Dinner Party Show

Christopher & Eric podcast episode guide for the Billy Newton murder, which helped identify his killer after more than 30 years.

thedinnerpartyshow.com

This read was fascinating.

 

[Franco Verum]

I had forgotten about all of the drama around "Cruising" and it's often missing from lists of Al Pacino's movies. Your post brought back the memories of the movie, the controversy and the effort that it took to see the movie in a theater.

Each of the shows that you mentioned have their pros and cons. For all its controversy, "Cruising" wasn't as painful as watching "Bros" because you knew that "Cruising" was going to be imperfect and controversial. "Bros" suffered from higher expectations. Both movies have something in common though: they gave the impression that urban gay men in a gay ghetto represented all gay men.

"Pansy" is another word that has dropped out of common usage. It didn't describe "pretty boys". It was a derogatory term for a specific type of effeminate, queeny gay man. Pansies weren't necessarily young or pretty. They just weren't "men" in the way that society viewed men.

I mentioned "Eyes of Laura Mars". This movie had it all - sex, violence, Faye Dunaway and lots of pansies. The pansies do what pansies usually did in movies from the period: they were always adjusting peoples hair/makeup, dancing around in harem pants ...and either killing or being killed.

The top-billed pansy was Donald Phelps, portrayed by Rene Auberjonois. He was surrogate mother to Laura Mars, portrayed by Dunaway. He's always there, cigarette between his index and middle finger (the way that all pansies smoked their cigarettes!). His hair is always big and he is costumed with big floppy hats and neck kerchiefs... and lots of beige.

View attachment 1888502
View attachment 1888503
View attachment 1888504

Donald Phelps is a stereotypical pansy. He dresses up in women's clothes. That can only mean one of two things in the movie: either he's the killer or he's going to be dead before the end of the movie (or both). Pansies never survived in movies made in the 20th century.



The first season of AHS will always be the best season for me.

The latest season is an homage to the post-Stonewall/pre-AIDS gay culture in NYC. It has a lot of references to culture touchstones of the time- Mapplethorpe, "Cruising", et al. The gay men are the murderers and the murdered but their role in the carnage isn't because they are gay, necessarily. That might be considered "progress" in the same way that two young boys falling in love in "Love Victor" or "Heartstopper" is progress, although "Heartstopper" manages to not kill off all the gay people by the time the credits roll.

Little fact: Lisa Taylor, one of the models killed in "The Eyes of Laura Mars," was best friends in real life with another supermodel, Gia Carangi, the lesbian model of infamy.

 

[Araucaria]

Polari. The lost language of our people.

As I understand it, Polari developed in London gay society as a result of persecution. but it became so rich and complex. Doing the church liturgy in Polari was a deliciously subversive act, as if to say, "You people are so serious!"

 

[KaraBulut]

This read was fascinating.

If someone were to write a screenplay reciting the events of the Billy London-Billy Houston story, no one would buy it because it is so bizarre and unbelievable. A gay porn model murdered by a gay-for-pay model, as part of a White Supremacist initiation and the imprisoned murderer is now a transwoman? No one would ever believe the story.