figured u were up on the news
guess not
i guess assuming was a mistake
here u go
Former Agent: Waterboarding Saves Lives But Should be Banned
So now other people should die so this man can feel morally superior. Lovely.
Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'NEW YORK (CNN) -- A former CIA agent who participated in interrogations of terror suspects said Tuesday that the controversial interrogation technique of "waterboarding" has saved lives, but he considers the method torture and now opposes its use...
Waterboarding begins by placing a suspect on a table with the suspect's feet slightly elevated, said Kiriakou, who was waterboarded several years ago as part of his CIA training. He said he elected not to learn how to perform the technique, which is designed to emulate the sensation of drowning.
Once a suspect is secured on the table, interrogators wrap his or her face in a cellophane-like material, Kiriakou said. "There is a bladder, or a water source, above the head with water pouring down on the mouth, so no water is going into your mouth, but it induces a gag reflex and makes you feel like you're choking," Kiriakou said. Video Watch the ex-agent describe the procedure »
Kiriakou said he lasted only a few seconds during his training because his body felt like it was seizing up almost immediately.
"It's entirely unpleasant," Kiriakou said. "You are so full of tension that you tense up, your muscles tighten up. It's very uncomfortable."
Abu Zubayda lasted a little longer, said Kiriakou, but not much.
The former agent, who said he participated in the Abu Zubayda interrogation but not his waterboarding, said the CIA decided to waterboard the al Qaeda operative only after he was "wholly uncooperative" for weeks and refused to answer questions.
All that changed -- and Zubayda reportedly had a divine revelation -- after 30 to 35 seconds of waterboarding, Kiriakou said he learned from the CIA agents who performed the technique.
The terror suspect, who is being held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, reportedly gave up information that indirectly led to the the 2003 raid in Pakistan yielding the arrest of Khalid Sheik Mohammed, an alleged planner of the September 11, 2001, attacks, Kiriakou said.
Let's see, what would make us Better, Morally Superior People? Hmmm....Allowing tens of thousands of innocent people to die horrible deaths at the hands of terrorists so we don't have to endure the 'shame' of 'torturing' bloodthirsty terrorists, or...Savings tens of thousands of innocent lives by making a bloodthirsty terrorist feel 'entirely unpleasant' and 'uncomfortable.'
Gee, I'm gonna have to meditate on that one.
Posted by Tammy · December 11, 2007 10:39 AM ·
http://tammybruce.com/2007/12/former_agent_water.php
and another ........
by
Julia Layton
How effective is water boarding?
CIA members who've undergone water boarding as part of their training have lasted an average of 14 seconds before begging to be released. The
Navy SEALs once used the technique in their counter-interrogation training, but they stopped because the trainees could not survive it without breaking, which was bad for morale. When the CIA used the water-boarding technique on al-Qaeda operative and supposed "9/11 mastermind"
Khalid Sheik Mohammed, he reportedly lasted more than two minutes before confessing to everything of which he was accused. Anonymous CIA sources report that Mohammed's interrogators were impressed.
Most CIA officials say water boarding is not torture, although many see it as a poor interrogation method because it scares the prisoner so much you can't trust anything he tells you. Senator John McCain, who was tortured as a POW during the Vietnam War, says water boarding is definitely a form of torture. Human rights groups agree unanimously that "simulated drowning," causing the prisoner to believe he is about to die, is undoubtedly a form of psychological torture. The international community recognizes "mock executions" as a form of torture, and many place water boarding in that category. In 1947, a Japanese soldier who used water boarding against a U.S. citizen during
World War II was sentenced to 15 years in U.S.
prison for committing a war crime.
Whether or not water boarding is a current U.S. interrogation technique is unknown. In September 2006, the Bush administration faced widespread criticism regarding its refusal to sign a Congressional bill outlawing the use of torture techniques against all U.S. prisoners. That same month, the U.S. Department of Defense made it illegal for any member of the U.S. military to use the water-boarding technique. The CIA and its interrogators are unaffected by that new policy, as the CIA is not a branch of the U.S. military.
For more information on water boarding and related topics, try the links on
http://people.howstuffworks.com/water-boarding1.htm
and another
Waterboarding Success Stories: Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Library Tower
The waterboarding of
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is often cited as one of the major waterboarding "success stories". ABC News reporter
Brian Ross credited waterboarding for the crucial information used to avert the destruction of
Library Tower.
ROSS: That has happened in some cases where the material that's been given has not been accurate, has been essentially to stop the torture. In the case of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the information was very valuable, particularly names and addresses of people who were involved with al Qaeda in this country and in Europe. And in one particular plot, which would involve an airline attack on the tallest building in Los Angeles, known as the Library Tower.
The US Bank Tower plot was revealed to the public by
President Bush on February 9, 2006 in a speech to the National Guard Association:
In the weeks after September the 11th, while Americans were still recovering from an unprecedented strike on our homeland, al Qaeda was already busy planning its next attack. We now know that in October 2001, Khalid Shaykh Muhammad -- the mastermind of the September the 11th attacks -- had already set in motion a plan to have terrorist operatives hijack an airplane using shoe bombs to breach the cockpit door, and fly the plane into the tallest building on the West Coast. We believe the intended target was Liberty [sic] Tower in Los Angeles, California.
Rather than use Arab hijackers as he had on September the 11th, Khalid Shaykh Muhammad sought out young men from Southeast Asia -- whom he believed would not arouse as much suspicion. To help carry out this plan, he tapped a terrorist named
Hambali [
Riduan Isamuddin], one of the leaders of an al Qaeda affiliated group in Southeast Asia called "J-I" [
Jemaah Islamiyah]. JI terrorists were responsible for a series of deadly attacks in Southeast Asia, and members of the group had trained with al Qaeda. Hambali recruited several key operatives who had been training in Afghanistan. Once the operatives were recruited, they met with Osama bin Laden, and then began preparations for the West Coast attack.
Their plot was derailed in early 2002 when a Southeast Asian nation arrested a key al Qaeda operative. Subsequent debriefings and other intelligence operations made clear the intended target, and how al Qaeda hoped to execute it. This critical intelligence helped other allies capture the ringleaders and other known operatives who had been recruited for this plot. The West Coast plot had been thwarted.
Which aspects of this plot could Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's waterboarding have revealed?
- We learned about Al Qaeda's interest in flying planes into buildings on September 11, 2001.
- We knew about Al Qaeda's use of shoe bombs from Richard Reid, captured in December 22, 2001.
- We knew about Jemaah Islamiyah at least since the Bali Bomb attack on October 12, 2002.
- The "key al Qaeda operative" and pilot for the plot, Zaini Zakari, was arrested by Malaysian authorities in December 2002.
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was captured in Rawalpindi, Pakistan on March 1, 2003 —
after the plot was discovered,
after the plot was "derailed",
after the pilot of the plane was captured. Khaled Sheikh Mohammed could
not have "provided valuable information and saved lives" when all aspects of the plot were well-known and the attack had been foiled prior to his capture.
Coercive interrogation is extremely effective at obtaining
confessions. Evidence obtained from coercive interrogation is highly dubious and must be corroborated with reliable sources. The claims of interrogators who coerce their prisoners should be treated with as much skepticism as the claims of the prisoners themselves.
http://waterboarding.org/success_story
so my point is it is pretty well established that it works - and it has saved or can save lives - so now what do we do ? and it is not clear to me that it is "torture"
Whether it's torture by anybody else's definition, for me it would be torture
