We Aren't Getting Out of Afghanistan or Even Iraq

[EastMed]

Rumsfeld wouldn't let the planners game it past knocking out the Taliban in Afghanistan or the fall of Baghdad in Iraq. To him, those were the points where it ended -- nothing after them was relevant.

Powell talked about 200k+ and mentioned the gaming done past Rumsfeld's "victory" -- and got shit on.

Making Rumsfeld a drone target would be a better investment than the last twenty they've used around the globe.

Iraq and Afganistan show the limits of war in achieving political objectives.

 

[Kulindahr]

Iraq and Afganistan show the limits of war in achieving political objectives.

More like they show the limits of war achieving any objectives at all when politics trumps strategy.

 

[Kulindahr]

If in the beginning we'd left most of the warlords to do as they pleased so long as they didn't allow the Taliban in to play, we could have focused on a strong central area as a solid base, then sat them down to fashion a Magna Carta type 'constitution'. We could have been gone by now, except perhaps an air base whose function would be to support warlords against the Taliban.

But we have this grand notion that we can wave a trillion dollars and voila! democracy.

 

[bankside]

Fear and misinformation could motivate the expenditure of trillions of dollars on exactly the same "industrial complex" for doing things like building infrastructure and alternative energy generation.

I'm not sure I buy into the conspiracy.

 

[Ambrocious]

For anyone who might be new or for just anyone who who has not seen this video in the past, I strongly recommend watching "TerrorStorm" to understand why these wars will not end any time soon.

Some would say it's a conspiracy theory but to you who have a measure of discernment and are aware of what is happening, this video can really help out.


Here is a list of documentaries I strongly suggest: LIST

 

[joaama]

We are getting out of Iraq by the end of the year. We have to. The SOFA goes until then and the Prime Minister says he will not let us stay past then. And don't bash Obama for that, Bush was the one that agreed that we'd leave then.

We will start drawing down in the middle of this year in Afghanistan.

 

[Kulindahr]

If he wants to put more troops in Afghanistan, he should pull all our people except a skeleton crew of honest-to-goodness support people, and drop them all in Afghanistan. Then take all our infantry our of Europe and throw them in.

And next year, bring them all back to the U.S. and leave them here.

 

[cocksucker4use]

Meh. It's the truth. Rummy was all Pollyanna about his quick light strike idea that he drove it and Iraq into the dirt. Afghanistan could have been silenced a long time ago with 200K in there but whenever you talked about that BEFORE we were losing our asses the political nuts went hard LEFT and I do mean left over the idea of winning war. Now it is there boy and they just wanna quit. it is no wonder the dems have no backbone when they are in control. The left side of there party has no gut.

All that said we will be there for the next 4 decades at a minimum or they will be our worst enemies in half that. (And then of course we will start over again)

Stupid to not finish a fight once your in it.

STUPIDER YET TO START A FIGHT YOU CAN NOT FINISH.

 

[cocksucker4use]

Rumsfeld wouldn't let the planners game it past knocking out the Taliban in Afghanistan or the fall of Baghdad in Iraq. To him, those were the points where it ended -- nothing after them was relevant.

Powell talked about 200k+ and mentioned the gaming done past Rumsfeld's "victory" -- and got shit on.

Making Rumsfeld a drone target would be a better investment than the last twenty they've used around the globe.

Quote from the Wikipedia ariticle on Neo Conservatism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

"Republican U.S. senator Chuck Hagel, who has been critical of the Bush administration's adoption of neoconservative ideology in his book America: Our Next Chapter, writes, "So why did we invade Iraq? I believe it was the triumph of the so-called neo-conservative ideology, as well as Bush administration arrogance and incompetence that took America into this war of choice. . . . They obviously made a convincing case to a president with very limited national security and foreign policy experience, who keenly felt the burden of leading the nation in the wake of the deadliest terrorist attack ever on American soil."

Then-Chief of the Army, Gen. Eric Shinseki testifed before Congress leading up to the invasion of Iraq that such a venture would require "several hundred thousand" soldiers in a post invasion scenario to succeed. Rumsfeld and the Bush Administration were low-balling the invasion in terms of both dolllars, time and personnel. Had Congress foreseen the truth, they never would have allowed Bush to proceed.

Basically, the Neo Cons that were influencing foreign policy saw the invasion of Iraq as promoting US type democracy while leading to mid-East peace. So, the US tramples Saddam in a Blitzkrieg of Shock and Awe, eliminates the Baathists and sets up a democracy. The rest of the region seeing that the US has the balls and might to fuck em up, knuckles under and rushes to make nice with our fair haired child, Israel.
A Neo Con's wet dream....gone so bad.

They didn't get that the only thing that was keeping a lid on 26 million people in 3 factions that hated each other was Saddam's dictatorship. He posed no threat to the US. He was embargoed and censured and pretty much limited. As a secular dictator in a country with a 60% Shi'ite majority, who had fought the Islamic Repulic of Iran in a 10-year death struggle, why would he have an interest in promoting fundamentalists like Al-Qaeda.

So, here we are since Mar '03 in the endless war. Yeah, it helps the economy, but the cost of it is killing us in the long run. Not to mention our troops and the millions of suffering Afghans and Iraqis.

 

[Kulindahr]

Quote from the Wikipedia ariticle on Neo Conservatism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

Basically, the Neo Cons that were influencing foreign policy saw the invasion of Iraq as promoting US type democracy while leading to mid-East peace. So, the US tramples Saddam in a Blitzkrieg of Shock and Awe, eliminates the Baathists and sets up a democracy. The rest of the region seeing that the US has the balls and might to fuck em up, knuckles under and rushes to make nice with our fair haired child, Israel.
A Neo Con's wet dream....gone so bad.

One simple thing would have scuttled this entire batch of silliness....

Back when Bush had been elected and Clinton was starting to pack, one of the educational channels had a wonderful show on: some journalist with a love of history had gotten someone to fund what turned out to be an excellent little series, called something like "In the footsteps of Alexander". They started in Macedonia where Philip had reigned, and tracked the route of his (in)famous son. It was fascinating, with one oft-repeated horrifying element: time after time, in small towns and villages, people recounted Alexander's battles as though they'd been fought just the week before, and all along the route, there were still anger and hatreds birthed from those events. Most hated Greeks and all things Greek, some were smart and aware enough that they said the Greeks were patsies taken in by a rude Macedonian -- so they hated Macedonians (despite the fact that many couldn't tell at all what a Greek or a Macedonian was).

Alexander ruled all that. His empire fell to pieces. The pieces died. New empires replaced the pieces. Those empires died under the hooves of the leading edges of yet more empires. Empires faded, and colonialism repainted all the lines. Colonial powers withdrew, leaving behind makeshift, patchwork nations.

And the memories and enmity of two and a half millennia past still live.

 

[virgoboy]

It was stupid to go into Afghan mountains, barren land full of egoistic warlords. After 10 yrs and billions in aid, nothing much happened. The the US aid money is shipped out in presidential jet to Switzerland.
How can you rebuild a medieval country with the warlords are opium traders