On-Topic WH Admits it Lied About All People Being Able to Keep Their Health Insurance

[Benvolio]

If they had not told the lie, Obamacare would not have passed. It was a very close thing as it was. They had to bribe Sen Nelson to get his swing vote, remember? What they meant was" If you like your existing policy, you might be able to keep it if the Democrat bureaucrats approve it." If it does not generate enough cash to pay for other peoples insurance, it will not "meet meet minimum standards."

 

[opinterph]

The "insurance marketplace" (that website that doesn't work right despite spending over $600 billion on it),

Wow. That’s more than 15% of the entire federal budget.

The American public was not told that millions of us would be kicked out of our insurance against our will because of Obamacare.

An Act Entitled The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. (PDF)​

 

[Jack Springer]

The health plans don't meet minimum standards. It's an overblown story. The minimum premiums these folks were paying weren't helping them. It gave them the illusion of health care at the cost of high deductibles they never would have been able to afford without still going bankrupt.

Fortunately, if you look into the news story, you'll find that the ACA offers tax credits that actually mitigate the premium cost of a better plan.

... nothing to say about the topic of the thread?

 

[Jack Springer]

Ahhh more smoke and mirrors by the party of blame Obama. I was asked by a writhing, foamy mouthed, Limbaugh-ite today whether I STILL believed that the ACA was a good idea with hundfedsrof thousands losing their insurance. So i relayed signing my mom up for massive reductions.

The response was "You just like him dont you, you just blindly support him no matter"

What I ask the older gentleman was "When will your party start addressing issues and get off BHO's jock, it has failed you so far and will continue to fail you, develop a policy or maybe even two to stand upon"

That is pretty much where the republican party is left. No issues that resound with Americans so they just call names and hope it makes everyone come to their side.

... again, no response to the topic of the thread. Obama lied about people getting to keep their own insurance. Changing the subject to bashing republicans does nothing to promote the President as an honest man.

 

[Jack Springer]

Before I was old enough for Medicare, I think I probably had one of those complete-piece-of-shit insurance policies for which I would have received a cancellation notice. It didn't pay for routine clinic visits, health screenings (physicals), prescriptions (unless while IN a hospital), X-rays, colonoscopies, etc. (Or actually, for some of the tests, it actually DID pay something - $100 - towards some of the tests. In that case it was still nearly like having no insurance.) When I had a bill of more than $26,000 in 2003 when a cancerous kidney was removed, the damned insurance paid less than one-half of the bill, leaving me hanging with a horrible cost to pay myself. Even at that, it took them MORE THAN FIVE MONTHS to pay, and the hospital was on the verge of sending my bill for collection which would have added thousands of dollars to it.

And, of course, I was absolutely trapped FOREVER in that Godawful insurance policy...because I now had a pre-existing condition, and getting a policy from elsewhere was utterly impossible. At the time of the operation, my fears were actually worse - that I would end up NOT bring trapped in that awful policy - because it was *PERFECTLY LEGAL* for the insurer to arbitrary cancel-my-ass on the spot because I was unfortunate enough to get cancer. I was worried far more about THAT happening, than even the risks from my cancer or possible infection.

FORTUNATELY *NONE* OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENED - and in 2011, after a late follow-up and CT-scan and an appointment with an oncologist [cancer doctor], the oncologist actually used the word "CURED" to describe my condition. I thought they NEVER use that word? (I was also charged nearly $7,000 for that CT-scan and the damned insurance only paid $100, so I had to pay nearly $7,000 out of my own pocket!)

If the exact current and the soon-to-be-effective parts of "Obamacare" had all existed in 2004, I would have VERY happily and cheerfully used its provisions to get out of my horrible insurance and actually get a policy that would pay me something better than shit, even if it had cost a couple thousand more****. If "Obamacare" had existed in 2003 I would have had no reason to go through those terrifying worries that I could have continuing cancer and the insurance company could cancel-my-ass and every bit of my life savings could have disappeared.

****Before seeing how horrible the payout was, once they FINALLY paid in 2004 by using whatever minimal and very capricious and arbitrary claim adjustments they used, I never had any reason to think I had awful insurance.

THAT is why people will be paying more...because TERRIBLY INFERIOR policies which pay for almost nothing are not allowed any more.

Nice read Frank, but you didn't address the topic of the thread. Did Obama lie in saying that people could keep their insurance.

What I think you're saying is that the government knows what you need better than you do.

 

[Jack Springer]

I dont see anything wrong with that.

The people who are chiding Obamcare are the same people that say hes a muslim, hes a terrorist, hostage holders in the tea party. All the same people.

It doesn't appear that way ...

Rep. Steny Hoyer said he knew ...

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/362484/top-dem-admits-we-knew-jonathan-strong

The big tea party supporter .. The New York Times and The LA Times ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/30/us/politics/where-the-buck-stops-some-see-a-bystander.html?_r=0

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-obamacare-oversold-20131030,0,558878.story#axzz2jCy5LXbs

Sometimes the talking points of the Administration and Media Matters just don't work.

 

[opinterph]

Did Obama lie in saying that people could keep their insurance[?]

I think the truth was always in the mix, but the President generally chose to eschew the negative and present an optimistic view in his remarks.

Q I'm sorry, but what about keeping your promise to the American people that they won't have to change plans even if employers --

THE PRESIDENT: Well, no, no, I mean -- when I say if you have your plan and you like it and your doctor has a plan, or you have a doctor and you like your doctor that you don't have to change plans, what I'm saying is the government is not going to make you change plans under health reform.

Press Conference By The President (The White House; June 23, 2009)

Q Can you explain in just really clear and plain terms the disconnect between what the President said about if you want to keep your plan you can keep it, and what we see people complaining about, which is being kicked out of their plan or being told they have to buy a more expensive plan, or just general unhappiness in that segment? Can you explain that?

MR. CARNEY: As the law says, and as the President made clear in the statements that you cite, if you had insurance coverage on the individual market when the Affordable Care Act was passed into law and you liked that plan and you wanted to stay on it, even though it didn't meet the minimum standards that the Affordable Care Act would bring into place on January 1, 2014, you can keep the coverage. You’re grandfathered in. That plan and your association with it are grandfathered in, in perpetuity -- not for a year, not for five years, but forever.

But what is not the case is if your insurer basically threw you off that plan by telling you after a year or two that it was changing and said, here’s your new option because your plan has changed, that that new plan is grandfathered in. Because how could that be? You can't grandfather in a plan in 2010 that didn't come into existence until 2012 or 2011?

Press Briefing by Press Secretary Jay Carney (The White House; October 29, 2013)

 

[bankside]

The cheaper plans are what the people could afford, Some may see a price break, With a Subsidy, But the new plans cost more. The Insurance companies have sent out letters saying the policies have been cancelled and they must purchase approved policies.

It's not up to individuals as to whether they can afford their own health care.

It's up to each of us as to whether we can afford a new car, or a vacation, or a home reno, or dinner out at a fancy restaurant. But the basics of whether we live or die or suffer without treatment, that's a shared responsibility.

 

[Jack Springer]

I think the truth was always in the mix, but the President generally chose to eschew the negative and present an optimistic view in his remarks.

Nice attempt at trying to spin what he said. He made a promise, changed the law to exclude his promise, and then kept telling the lie.

 

[opinterph]

He made a promise, changed the law to exclude his promise, ...

When did he change the law to exclude his promise?

 

[bankside]

Nice read Frank, but you didn't address the topic of the thread. Did Obama lie in saying that people could keep their insurance.

What I think you're saying is that the government knows what you need better than you do.

The government knows better than most insurance companies what people need. That's because the government is made up of people. People who are tired of the kind of crap that frank had to put up with when billing and deductibles should have been the last things he had to worry about.

If I promised that a new law would continue to let people pick whatever restaurant they wanted to eat at, I could still shut down someone's favourite restaurant for health violations because it didn't meet minimum standards and it would be ridiculous to say I lied.

People still pick their own insurance. There is no lie.

 

[Jack Springer]

When did he change the law to exclude his promise?

None of this should come as a shock to the Obama administration. The law states that policies in effect as of March 23, 2010 will be “grandfathered,” meaning consumers can keep those policies even though they don’t meet requirements of the new health care law. But the Department of Health and Human Services then wrote regulations that narrowed that provision, by saying that if any part of a policy was significantly changed since that date -- the deductible, co-pay, or benefits, for example -- the policy would not be grandfathered.

Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_...ns-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite

 

[Jack Springer]

The government knows better than most insurance companies what people need. That's because the government is made up of people. People who are tired of the kind of crap that frank had to put up with when billing and deductibles should have been the last things he had to worry about.

If I promised that a new law would continue to let people pick whatever restaurant they wanted to eat at, I could still shut down someone's favourite restaurant for health violations because it didn't meet minimum standards and it would be ridiculous to say I lied.

People still pick their own insurance. There is no lie.

So when a future republican Administration enacts a law and uses executive privilege to adjust that law .. you'll willingly go along with it because the government knows better than you?

 

[opinterph]

… the Department of Health and Human Services then wrote regulations that narrowed that provision, by saying that if any part of a policy was significantly changed since that date -- the deductible, co-pay, or benefits, for example -- the policy would not be grandfathered.

That was not a change, but an interim final rule handed down by the Department of Health and Human Services in conjunction with other federal agencies. The law anticipated such a regulation. And as your own quote illustrates, it was not an action taken by the President.

II. Overview of the Regulations: Section 1251 of the Affordable Care Act, Preservation of Right To Maintain Existing Coverage (26 CFR 54.9815– 1251T, 29 CFR 2590.715–1251, and 45 CFR 147.140)

In making grandfathered health plans subject to some but not all of the health reforms contained in the Affordable Care Act, the statute balances its objective of preserving the ability to maintain existing coverage with the goals of expanding access to and improving the quality of health coverage. The statute does not, however, address at what point changes to a group health plan or health insurance coverage in which an individual was enrolled on March 23, 2010 are significant enough to cause the plan or health insurance coverage to cease to be a grandfathered health plan, leaving that question to be addressed by regulatory guidance.

Federal Register/Vol. 75, No. 116/Thursday, June 17, 2010/Rules and Regulations

 

[kallipolis]

^^$2856 a year for health insurance with a combined income of $80,000 per annum should not be a strain raising one child.

 

[Jack Springer]

That was not a change, but an interim final rule handed down by the Department of Health and Human Services in conjunction with other federal agencies. The law anticipated such a regulation. And as your own quote illustrates, it was not an action taken by the President.

It was a change in the law. Congress gave HHS the right to write the law -- Congress did not write the specific law .. they gave away that authority to HHS. Don't you remember the infamous quote by Nancy Pelosi ''we have to pass it to find out what's in it'.

If President Obama is not responsible for his own Administration and what it does ... who is responsible?

 

[Kulindahr]

1) Americans were told, in no uncertain terms, by President Obama that we could keep our insurance plans if we liked it. It was one of the big selling points for Obamacare because he wanted to reassure everyone that Obamacare was not a massive "government takeover" of insurance. The "insurance marketplace" (that website that doesn't work right despite spending over $600 billion on it), was supposed to be for people who had never had insurance before, or wanted to shop for a new plan. The American public was not told that millions of us would be kicked out of our insurance against our will because of Obamacare.

That's what the law says. What it doesn't do is dictate to insurance companies that they have to keep all the plans they're now offering. As someone pointed out, this happens all the time -- insurance companies can and do change the terms of your policy in order to protect their profit.

The law was written that way to make Republicans happy: it lets the insurance companies continue to profit off the population.

credits only apply if your gross income is up to a certain point. If your income is just barely above that point, you get nothing. Also, the increased cost (even with the tax credits) put a lot of strain on middle-class Americans just struggling to stay afloat in this economy.

Well, duh -- just like income tax: it's figured on a sliding scale.

Admittedly I only know six people who have actually gotten price figures, but all of them say that they'll pay less than the total cost of their policy before, for about the same thing.

 

[Kulindahr]

Did Obama lie in saying that people could keep their insurance.

No -- he just didn't tell the whole truth. The clause he didn't mention was that insurance companies could wipe out policies if they wanted, and that would kill some people's insurance.

And of course that's exactly the way Republicans want it -- they don't want government interfering with profits. So while Obama was not entirely truthful, it's ironic that what he didn't tell us is what the GOP approves.

 

[Kulindahr]

It was a change in the law. Congress gave HHS the right to write the law -- Congress did not write the specific law .. they gave away that authority to HHS. Don't you remember the infamous quote by Nancy Pelosi ''we have to pass it to find out what's in it'.

If President Obama is not responsible for his own Administration and what it does ... who is responsible?

Presidents are never actually in charge, the bureaucracy is. That's been shown under several presidents, including Nixon, who have tried to get control of the federal bureaucracy. Unless they just shut down entire departments, the bureaucrats continue to do things as they please.

 

[Jack Springer]

No -- he just didn't tell the whole truth. The clause he didn't mention was that insurance companies could wipe out policies if they wanted, and that would kill some people's insurance.

And of course that's exactly the way Republicans want it -- they don't want government interfering with profits. So while Obama was not entirely truthful, it's ironic that what he didn't tell us is what the GOP approves.

Sounds like lying to me. If you don't tell the whole truth and know you are not telling the truth . . . you are lying.

Obama met privately with Big Insurance before they started on the bill in Congress. No one to this day knows what was discussed and promised in that meeting. We do know that insurance companies did not protest the PPACA.