What about Celibacy in Religion, In Catholicism?

[sixthson]

I believe pedophiles will abuse children whether or not they are celibate and whether they are married or single. I don't believe priests became abusers after entering into the priesthood. I think the pedophile entered the seminary and became a priest. Maybe the church has been a safe haven for these types of people, which to my way of thinking, also makes them responsible for not weeding them out. I will never believe religion or celibacy causes pedophelia, however.

Mikey, you talked about being celibate. As the church sees celibacy, does that also mean masturbation is not allowed?

 

[Mariatenebre]

I found an interesting article for all those who may be interested...be it positive or negative interests:

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/celibacy-isn%E2%80%99t-the-problem

Celibacy over all is foolish. As the enlightened religions of our ancestors show you do not have to be sexless in order to be spiritual. In fact in antiquity there were many fertility cults which encouraged sex. These religions were of course stamped out violently by the dick fear religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. It is a very new concept that either a gay or straight person must be celibate in order to be spiritually acceptable.

Also it has been shown that denying yourself sex is not healthy from a psychological standpoint. We are sexual creatures and it is time the religions of dick fear realize this.

 

[Benvolio]

Who says God calls anyone to chastity? Who says the chaste are more focused on God? Much more likely the chaste spend more time fantasizing about sex. It is hard to forget about sex when there is no outlet--except the altar boys.
We only live one life and sex is far to important to abstain for the imaginared wishes of an unprovable god.

 

[Mariatenebre]

In your point of view, can there be Positive Celibacy, and if so...what circumstances?

No I do not believe in positive celibacy. As I mentioned before humans are sexual beings and sexual deprivation is not healthy for anyone.

The Church has made it harder for pedophiles to enter the Seminary since the scandal broke out, and the church will not take a chance on truly, sincerely celibate Gays. I think that the Church aught to allow those celibate Gays into Religious Consecrated Life. I like your take on the Institutional situation.

God calls all to chastity according to one's state in life. Being celibate allows one to be totally focused on God without any hinderances, or worldly distractions. Unfortunately, masturbation can be a major distraction to the deeper Spiritual Life, it can take your focus off of what is most important...God. Man is called to be in the World, but not of the World.

This shows the foolishness of this belief. We should be in the world and of the world. The Earth is a wonderful place full of enjoyment and pleasure. We should take advantage of these these things.

Further more the idea that gay people must live lives of celibacy in order to be spiritually acceptable is monsterous. Sexual deprivation is not healthy for anyone and no one should be forced to live a miserable life without romantic or sexual satisfaction.

 

[kallipolis]

Celibacy should be a personal choice, rather than mandatory.

It is interesting that Latin Rite, Catholic clergy are obliged to remain celibate whereas, Eastern (Byzantine) Rite Catholic priests may marry.

Many gay men are celibate and are happy that their personal relationships with other men, and women are not dependent upon sexual encounters.

 

[kallipolis]

The Seminarian has the entire time in the Seminary to make that choice, and once they are ordained, they can't backtrack. they have anywhere from 4-10 years to make that choice.

The seminary is the ideal place for the aspirant to the priesthood to work out their vocation, and determine whether a life of celibacy is right for them.

Of course there are those priests who in later life fall in love with a woman and choose married life over a life of celibacy.

There are so many former priests now married who could perform an active role in ministry were Latin Rite priests permitted to marry.

Married, former Protestant ministers who convert to Catholicism are granted ordination as Catholic priests while remaining married. All it takes is a signature from the Bishop of Rome to confirm this exception.

Voluntary celibacy makes much more sense and enables the priest to continue his vocation as Byzantine Rite, Catholic priests do - and, as Orthodox diocesan clergy do.

 

[Benvolio]

Most priests and nuns are indoctrinated from infantcy in Church doctrine, attend Catholic schools and are taught that God wants celibate priests. Many, perhaps most are and have always been secret homosexuals taught that for them they may never, ever have sex in their lives, including masturbation--unless they marry a woman. For them, the priesthood seems more acceptable than for straights, and a place to hide their sexual orientation. The priesthood and celibacy, and faith itself,are seldom truely a free choice, and the priests, nuns, bishops and popes are the victims.. The catholic school system does not exist to afford free choice. It's purpose is to brainwash.

 

[Benvolio]

The point is that indoctrination from infancy deprives them of real free choice.

 

[Benvolio]

There is no suggestion in 1Corinthians that God is calling any one to be celibate. Paul says "0n the question of celibacy, I have no instructions from the Lord, but I give my judgment.....". He states that his opinion is limited: "...in a time of stress like the present this is the best way for a man to live....". Buy time if stress he indicates that he thinks the apocalypse is at hand and for that reason men should have no wives. 7:29 "For the whole frame of this world is passing away.".
He does not encourage a vow of celibacy: " I have no wish to keep you on a tight rein".

 

[Spensed]

^ I don't disagree with your sentiments and it's interesting to hear Paul on this.

Celibacy is a risky choice simply because sexual instincts don't disappear at will and become channeled or sublimated into worthy actions and spiritual fulfilment. As the various scandals and evils perpetrated by celibates show, too often sexual urges just get displaced and distorted. For some, it may work as a spiritual exercise, like fasting. But for others it can be a type of needless self-punishment and a time wasting cycle of sin and forgiveness.

As for indoctrination and free will, they are loaded words that could just as easily be applied to the critics using them. Sure there is a element of indoctrination in a religious upbringing, but, apart from the more extreme groups, it permits dissent and leaving the faith. Plus a secular upbringing geared at avoiding indoctrination is its own indoctrination, not only in terms of, for example, spiritual growth, but also in term of the limitations of any upbringing, for example, the American-centric or Eurocentric views of the world.

So, while indoctrination and absence of free will are dangers, substituting secularism for religion does not solve the problem.

 

[Benvolio]

Catholic schools exist to provide a degree of indoctrination which impairs freedom of choice. That is their purpose. A vow of chastity is itself evidence of an extreme degree of indoctrination, or even brainwashing.who else would make such a vow?

 

[maxracer]

I have never understood why religions are still obsessed with something so natural as sexuality. On an intellectual level it's fairly obvious why sex came to be regarded as sinful or dirty, or something that needs to be controlled. Hence chastity, celibacy and animosity toward homosexuals. I just don't get why so-called intelligent people today still adhere to these medieval rules.

There are theories that celibacy actually had nothing to do with sex and everything to do with maintaining wealth and property. Clerics often married until the 16th Century until concern, mostly over the loss of Church lands and buildings to heirs of priests, led to the imposition of the celibacy rule.

I try hard to understand religion and the religious mind (which is why I read this forum) but I can't get past the ancient and often preposterous rules like celibacy that still exist under the guise of somehow serving god.

 

[Spensed]

Catholic schools exist to provide a degree of indoctrination which impairs freedom of choice. That is their purpose. A vow of chastity is itself evidence of an extreme degree of indoctrination, or even brainwashing.who else would make such a vow?

One can say that most, if not all, upbringings "provide a degree of indoctrination which impairs freedom of choice". "Indoctrinating" children to respect others, be good citizens,etc. Indoctrination is not unique to religion.

As for freedom of choice, many children "indoctrinated" by a religious upbringing choose a different path.

Although I don't condone celibacy either (I think you mean celibacy rather than chasitity), your showing your own indoctrination. Not everyone is the same and the fact that you view celibacy as "an extreme degree of indoctrination" doesn't mean that that's what it is or that it is such a big deal to one person as it might be to another. Some folk, by the way, are called to celibacy because of a permanent physical problem and they are not lesser or indoctrinated people because of that.

All I'm really saying is that these issues are not black and white.

 

[Jacquemar]

I have never understood why religions are still obsessed with something so natural as sexuality. On an intellectual level it's fairly obvious why sex came to be regarded as sinful or dirty, or something that needs to be controlled. Hence chastity, celibacy and animosity toward homosexuals. I just don't get why so-called intelligent people today still adhere to these medieval rules.

There are theories that celibacy actually had nothing to do with sex and everything to do with maintaining wealth and property. Clerics often married until the 16th Century until concern, mostly over the loss of Church lands and buildings to heirs of priests, led to the imposition of the celibacy rule.

I try hard to understand religion and the religious mind (which is why I read this forum) but I can't get past the ancient and often preposterous rules like celibacy that still exist under the guise of somehow serving god.

Wow. That is a very lucid, intelligent, well-thought-out response.

 

[palbert]

See "Rebuild My Church." Rebuilding requires more than semen deprivation.

 

[palbert]

See. Rebuild My Church........POST #6.

 

[Kulindahr]

Celibacy is a man-made rule imposed on people God calls to the priesthood contrary to His Word in scripture. God gives the gift of celibacy not to those men decide must have it, but as He wills.

On this topic, the Roman church is in error, being in rebellion against Simon Peter "the Fisherman", who had a wife. If the "first pope" could function for God while not being celibate, it is only fleshly pride that leads anyone to impose it.

Those who are given the gift of celibacy will find it natural, not a choice to be struggled over. Those on whom it is imposed by man will fail to serve God well, because they aren't following His path.

 

[palbert]

....Those who are given the gift of celibacy will find it natural, not a choice to be struggled over. Those on whom it is imposed by man will fail to serve God well, because they aren't following His path.

God has nothing to do with it, it is self-actualization, one way or the other.

 

[Spensed]

^One can experience it, live it and struggle with it and it can still be a wholly subjective experience that has nothing to do with any objective God or what an objective God might want. That's why celibacy, like whipping oneself to mortify the flesh, is just "self-actualization". Obviously, one can do it if one wants to but don't mistake it as something that God, if God exists, calls for. My guess is that many celibates and many profligates have both committed great evil and great good.

 

[palbert]

^one can experience it, live it and struggle with it and it can still be a wholly subjective experience that has nothing to do with any objective god or what an objective god might want. That's why celibacy, like whipping oneself to mortify the flesh, is just "self-actualization". Obviously, one can do it if one wants to but don't mistake it as something that god, if god exists, calls for. My guess is that many celibates and many profligates have both committed great evil and great good.

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