What do you blame proposition 8's passing on?

[scream4ever]

Like all of you, I am so sad and disgusted by what has happened. I just would like to know some of your opinions.

I know many of you will say "the majority vote", but that's not what I'm looking for. Personally I think the "No" side did all we could. We had one of the biggest flash campaigns in history. So many people quickly banded together to help the cause. Countless celebrities and politicians openly spoke out against it. I really think something must be done about this injustice.

Personally, I'm blaming the Mormon church and uneducated minority groups. The Mormon church clearly was the head of all this, donating tons of money to fund the B.S. commercials filled with lies and exploitation of children (I commend the parents and superintendent of the schools in speaking out about this). The Religious Right refused to read any of the actual facts.

As for the minority groups, I am not a racist. What I mean is that it's true that blacks recieve less education then whites do, and studies have shown that the more education one recieves, the more they vote to the left. This in not their fault though since the government does not provide them with enough opportunities.

Seriously, my feelings about Mormons have now gone from dislike to detest. How they can call themselves Christians is beyond me. I am also now cutting off any affiliation I used to have with organized religion (I used to go to church at Christmas and Easter just to please my family, but now I am putting my foot down and saying never). As a matter of fact, if we had a Mormon church where I live I would be temped to throw a rock through the window. I went to high school with one girl and her and her entire family are all Evangelicals and against gay rights. She is so smug about it too. Now, if I see her recently, I will be tempted to push her down the stairs.

Yes, I'm very angry, but we all have a right to be. It's like what Luke said in Children of Me; "How do they expect us to remain civilized when they're trying to take away our dignity!"

Thank you.

 

[Piquechampion]

I am not even from the US, and I'm trying so hard not to cry at work.

Injustice has prevailed in the great USofA.



PS: next time I see some mor(m)ons come knocking at my door I will give them a piece of my mind

 

[racer2438]

I blame it on bigitry,racism, closed minded people, anal peolpe, and peolpe that dont know what it actually meant.

 

[Pushover]

First and foremost, I blame the bible and it's poisoning of reason and humane ethics. Along with this comes organized religion and all the rest of it. To many of you, this comes as no surprise coming from me.

I also blame in part (go ahead and hate me for this, I don't care) these loud homosexuals. These people who think it's great to parade around in thongs and gaudy clothing pronouncing their so proud to be gay. They come off as so self-righteous; it disgusts me. It's no wonder many straight people are homophobic if the only thing they see is a bunch of half-naked men and women jumping up and down and dancing on a float in a parade, ultimately expressing a hedonistic and bohemian society. I'm not saying act straight; I'm saying act like a human being and not a drunken chimpanzee.

I also blame the businesses. There are too many big business groups in this world that make a profit off of fear mongering, selective consumerism, and shady economic practices.

 

[gdude30]

Yes it is Stacy.

And I have started dealing with it.

"Well you know it's your choice to be gay and I'm not gonna judge"

Being gay isn't a choice..

"Well believe what you want"

But how is us gays separating ourselves from religion helping.

Isn't that what they want. Do they want our queen asses out of their churches and religion?

Isn't that a win for them.

Isn't by pissing gays off and not allowing them rights and making them feel a deep sadness and pain a way to get them out of their churches and religion.

Don't you think that's what they want.

Don't you think how they have this little plan and it's working

Hell we should all go to church in drag, leather, jocks, thongs, wear our rainbow shirts and god hates me shirts. And write sin across our forheads.

THEY WON'T WIN DAMNIT

 

[gdude30]

Oops sorry.

Forum is being all screwy and this double post resulted..

 

[Croynan]

the campaign by the yes on prop. 8 people was full of lies and distortions and people went for it.

eM.

 

[G-Lexington]

I blame it on America (even California) not being quite there yet. The strides that have been made have been extremely significant, but there's still further to go. I'm confident that within a decade or so, we'll be there. If we keep the visibility up, if we show those who voted "yes" that we're "just us folks", I think they'll eventually come around.

Lex

 

[Alpha1851]

Human emotions. On both sides.

 

[scream4ever]

Wow, I'm amazed I'm not getting bashed for being so angry! Nice to see you guys understand!

 

[Raven03]

the campaign by the yes on prop. 8 people was full of lies and distortions and people went for it.

eM.

I agree and it pisses me off to no end. I also have an extreme disdain for the mormon church right now.

 

[Alpha1851]

Why are you blaming the Mormon church? Yes, the pumped in the big bucks, but the California voters were too blaise to sit and think, "hmmmm, an outside group is funneling money into MY state to tell Me how to vote...oh, hell no" Was there every any questioning by CA citizens as to why non Californian's felt the need to get involved? I'm sticking w/ emotions. As a collective whole, people are just unable to think objectively and problem solve through issues.

 

[treanir]

There is no single reason why proposition 8 passed. Ignorance is one thing, but since there was such a massive campaign (I've tried to follow things as best I could) from the no side, I doubt it was ignorant ignorance. Let me explain: I believe there are people who choose to be ignorant because to think anything else would either go against one of their core values (read: their religion) or it would be totally unacceptable in their community.

I $eriou$ly have no idea what other rea$on$ the pa$$ing of the propo$ition could have. $o I $hall $olely $ay how $orry and $ad I am.

 

[Yves]

A long rant triggered by frustration.

There are a wide range of factors to blame IMO:

- The, sadly, common discourse of "homosexuality is a choice" or "homosexuality is a lifestyle" that denies the basic recognition of the wide range of GLBT identities. The choice discourse can be found among homophobes and even some GLBT men and women. Some gay media outlets are not neutral either by reinforcing the image of the white gay man with extra income taking part of non-stop gay cruises. Sometimes seems easier to find gay support for the latest Madonna or Mariah Carey single instead of a unified political statement on discrimination among us.

- The lack of visibility of average gay Americans in contrast to classic stereotypes. Traditional voters have stereotypes in mind. They may not be aware of an average neighbor that happens to be gay (and far from an alien)

- The use of "children" and "children exposure to homosexuality" discourse during the campaign as it homosexuality was a disease. Some even made the connection of paedophilia and homosexuality.

- The lack of real separation of church and state. Some churches (or fractions within them) decided to violate this separation.

- Religious fundamentalism in conflict with basic civil rights. The Mormon Church is a clear example that should not be forgotten (It must be hard to be gay and mormon at this moment in particular)

- The relative lack of a clear understanding and exposure to human rights principles among many of us (gays and straights).

- The economic involvement of some corporations and businesses that decided to support inequality.

- The remnants of racism among some subgroups that tends to agree with the ban in some degree. As Coretta King once said: "We have a lot more work to do in our common struggle against bigotry and discrimination. I say “common struggle” because I believe very strongly that all forms of bigotry and discrimination are equally wrong and should be opposed by right-thinking Americans everywhere. Freedom from discrimination based on sexual orientation is surely a fundamental human right in any great democracy, as much as freedom from racial, religious, gender, or ethnic discrimination".

- The lack of active involvement of a few gay men and women. Some view the discussion of marriage as not relevant to them and they forget the big picture ("who wants a paper from the state", "I'm not planning to marry", "the state has no business", etc)

- The late public support (as evidenced by PSAs and others) of a few key figures across the political/social spectrum. Some PSAs were too late in the game.

... the California voters were too blaise to sit and think, "hmmmm, an outside group is funneling money into MY state to tell Me how to vote...oh, hell no" Was there every any questioning by CA citizens as to why non Californian's felt the need to get involved? I'm sticking w/ emotions. As a collective whole, people are just unable to think objectively and problem solve through issues.

- Agree. Some CA voters accepted with no questioning the interference. Rational thinking did not prevail.

 

[gsdx]

It seems to make all the talk about freedom and equality a moot point. . . an effort in futility, if you will. Not to mention the fact that it makes Lincoln's speech at Gettysburg rather redundant and makes me wonder why there was even a civil war.

It seems to have been all for nought.

 

[gsdx]

As far as most people were concerned gays did exist back then. Only rather recently have we become socially relevant. The fight for equality for minority groups often takes a long time, and gays are, compared to some others, just really getting started.

So, instead of moving forward, the USA is in reverse?

Homosexuality has existed forever. Lincoln first few lines of the Gettysburg Address are:

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure."

As I said, it means nothing, and neither does the Civil War, as long as it can be voted upon and dismissed by the very people for whom it was written and fought - those people who feel that they are more equal than their fellow Americans.

 

[gsdx]

when they say "All men are created equal" they really mean "All men that we agree with are created equal".

Is it what they really mean or is it more the way the words are interpreted, just the way the Bible is interpreted?

Personally, I think it's the latter and people decide for themselves what is best for everyone when they really mean for 'themselves'.

It saddens me that so many people died (and still are dying) to give those people the right to decide how you can and can't live your lives.

 

[Lightsage]

I blame it on ignorance.

I blame it on bigotry, idiocy, arrogance...

I blame it on childish acts.

I blame it on insecurity.

Most of all though, I blame it on fear. Fear of change, fear of others, fear of oneself.

I blame it on nothing as well.

 

[gsdx]

I read in one of the threads that the Supreme Court could overturn that proposition as 'unconstitutional'.

Here's hoping.

 

[Huskerboy]

I, too, blame Prop. 8's passing on the Mormon and Catholic Churches. They pumped huge amounts of money into the lies and propaganda - and it worked. Anytime religion gets mixed with politics, it results in trouble. History is filled with people suffering because of religious influence.

In light of this, I too, have decided that I will no longer support any type of organized religion. I have never been that active, and no one will probably ever notice other than myself, but I have to do something. The Mormons are nothing more than a right-winged self-righteous cult, and the Knights of Columbus in the Catholic church have been self-appointed religious rulers for centuries. I've had enough... people who subscribe to garbage like this are nothing like Christ. Our only hope is a new President.