On Topic Discussion What do you think about bisexuals?

[sokker]

Holy shit.. I can't believe this thread is still going

 

[mikemizanin729]

You created a monster.

Sexist.

 

[EJMichaels]

...So, I've got yet another wrench to toss into this conversation - what about the people who are turned on by sex itself instead of gender or physical sex? Not talking about fetishes, but sex itself. I think Bankside mentioned that in another thread. I know several people besides myself like that, it's why my profile says pansexual on it since there isn't a word for it. It isn't "I'm possibly attracted to everyone regardless of gender", it's "I like sex for itself, are we compatible?"

I use "pansexual" for that, given no better choice. The person's array of naughty bits has nothing to do with my sexuality. While I do enjoy women's bits somewhat more, especially visually, it's not really part of the eroticism.

Then there's straight people who can (and do) participate in various aspects of bdsm with the same gender and it's the fetish that gets them off, not the gender of their partner. Though the gender might matter depending on the fetish involved....

Yes, plenty of people. I know a lot of straight men who do just the BDSM stuff with men. True, some fetishes require a particular body part, but overall, gender isn't the main factor.

I am fairly convinced these people do exist, and I consider it kind of an outcropping of a high degree of exhibitionism, with possibly some narcissism thrown in...

Excuse me? *trying not to say this is a load of crap* How about simply being someone for whom gender/biological sex is not the basis of classification?

 

[luckynumbah7]

Excuse me? *trying not to say this is a load of crap* How about simply being someone for whom gender/biological sex is not the basis of classification?

And that would be the rub, trying to point out to some gay men (not all, certainly) that how they define themselves isn't how everyone does it. It isn't how everyone does it by far.

But if anyone wants to claim narcissism and exhibitionism (I know damn well peoples realize that bdsm and sex generally aren't done in crowded rooms, nor are quite that many people going "Look at me, look at me!" when fucking, they can not be intellectually dishonest diagnosing someone with mental disorders when they have no degree in the field and couldn't diagnose someone online even if they did. They can also start with themselves and why they refuse to look past how very important their dick is to them so they insist, for the post part, that the existence of it must be as important to other people, nay, it must be the basis of sexual identity and orientation as a whole.

Which is why I keep trying to point out how other people do it, because so far as I know that isn't how it works for everyone else. Mostly I suspect that it's probably a lost cause.

I also got a notification,

Rolyo,

You're wasting time with whatever you're attempting to communicate, I didn't read it. Still guessing I have better things to do. You can try again in a month if you'd like, maybe I'll feel more charitable then.

 

[bankside]

The idea of attraction to sexuality being a sexual orientation. I don't think I said that but I don't think I said anything at odds with that maybe.

I have said before that as a naive young man, a big part of the appeal of homosexuality was the inevitable, automatic, inherent versatility in same sex relationships. It's not that I was hoping for versatility, it's that I had no frame of reference as an isolated young gay man who started coming out pre-internet, and I had no word for versatility because I could not conceptualise of any other way of being gay. It was very much the point of being gay: in my mind there was no difference between a top/bottom dynamic and a male/female dynamic, which I found unappealing and impossible for me to participate in.

So while I had touched a boobie, it came to symbolise (and in my mind was synonymous with) a gender identity and a sexual dynamic I found utterly unappealing.

Now I know more of sex, gender and the spectrum of topping, bottoming and versatility. And I suspect my orientation is better represented in connection with versatility than gender. I'm just not fundamentally turned on by "power differential games."

Though, strangely, having been socialised to confuse female sexuality with passivity and bottomy-ness, it would probably take Grace Jones from A View To A Kill really, really sternly wanting to powerfuck me to convince me she just wasn't going to lie there and expect me to "be the man," so that I could relax enough to get into it and want to fuck her back.

That is a kind of game, I suppose. A ritual to convince my libido she hadn't bought in to conventional ideas about femininity. (Or at least the ideas I had about femininity when my sexuality was forming.)

 

[Kyanimal]

I was one of those simply Fascinated with SEX, Period! I tracked down everything I could find about it in novels/books/magazines, scholastic studies, published research, and talking to trusted friends.

For instance, on the tamer side, I would highly recommend "Stranger In A Strange Land", and "Cather In The Rye".

That was all before the Internet, during the 60s and 70s, "Free Love", "Flower Power", and all that other liberating "Hippie Stuff".

As for gaining "hands on" experience, it was much easier, and expected, to do it with girls. I avidly followed that through my teens and twenties, with several guys thrown into the mix, too.

Though I always knew I was more interested in guys, I didn't go with being completely gay until I hit 30.

SO ... Granted, my history is bisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, or whatever. Though I've always self-identified as Gay, I only loosely pursued that while I was enjoying more than my fair share of "Luck" with the ladies!

All the more reasons to ... No Matter What ...

Keep Smiln'!!
Chaz

 

[travis82]

I don't get some bisexuals.

They are married to the opposite gender, yet they feel the need to declare and announce they are bisexual ( on facebook, their profile says " interested in men and women")


Who cares? You are happily married and living a heterosexual life just like the rest of the people in the society. Your marriage is blissful and perfect. You have a great career, family and kids. You don't have to deal with bullying or discrimination like we gay people do.

And it doesn't look like you are going to divorce your partner to be with your own gender anytime soon. You might just as well keep your bisexuality to yourself and continuing living that seemingly perfect heterosexual life like everyone else.


This is how I feel when I discovered some of my "straight" married male friends who declare themselves to be bisexual on facebook.

 

[Rolyo85]

Um, maybe THAT's why they don't hide it - because it's not ok for them to have to, just like it's not ok for us to have to be in the closet.

That said, the situation you describe isn't one I've ever encountered in real life. It's usually a same-sex couple where one of the guys is very militant about his bisexuality being respected.

 

[Stardreamer]

I don't get some bisexuals.

They are married to the opposite gender, yet they feel the need to declare and announce they are bisexual ( on facebook, their profile says " interested in men and women")


Who cares? You are happily married and living a heterosexual life just like the rest of the people in the society. Your marriage is blissful and perfect. You have a great career, family and kids. You don't have to deal with bullying or discrimination like we gay people do.

And it doesn't look like you are going to divorce your partner to be with your own gender anytime soon. You might just as well keep your bisexuality to yourself and continuing living that seemingly perfect heterosexual life like everyone else.


This is how I feel when I discovered some of my "straight" married male friends who declare themselves to be bisexual on facebook.

In short you want us to shut up, deny our sexuality and live in the closet.

 

[aaggii]

I don't get some bisexuals.

They are married to the opposite gender, yet they feel the need to declare and announce they are bisexual ( on facebook, their profile says " interested in men and women")


Who cares? You are happily married and living a heterosexual life just like the rest of the people in the society. Your marriage is blissful and perfect. You have a great career, family and kids. You don't have to deal with bullying or discrimination like we gay people do.

And it doesn't look like you are going to divorce your partner to be with your own gender anytime soon. You might just as well keep your bisexuality to yourself and continuing living that seemingly perfect heterosexual life like everyone else.


This is how I feel when I discovered some of my "straight" married male friends who declare themselves to be bisexual on facebook.

aka "I don't care if you're gay, just don't flaunt it in my face"

 

[Stardreamer]

Um, maybe THAT's why they don't hide it - because it's not ok for them to have to, just like it's not ok for us to have to be in the closet.

That said, the situation you describe isn't one I've ever encountered in real life. It's usually a same-sex couple where one of the guys is very militant about his bisexuality being respected.

It is essentially my situation and being retired military and still working in very conservative military environments I still have to be closeted to a degree. When I do find an environment where I can be truly open like this one, I run into threads like this. I do understand that I've been lucky and able to avoid much of the persecution gays run into by just letting people follow their natural assumptions (the whole pop psychology 'privilege' crap). I don't go out of the way to hide my sexuality but I don't wear it on my sleeve either. I do tick off some of my more conservative work mates when gay issues come up since I'm always are on the gay rights side of the issue *grins*.

 

[EJMichaels]

Regarding the need to "declare" one's bisexuality --

I was much more comfortable being a lesbian (and choosing to hide it sometimes) than what I have now, which is being presumed to be straight because I'm with a man. For reasons I won't explain now, I can't come out. I censor my conversations as much as I did as a lesbian. But why do I care? For one thing, when they talk about LGBT issues or people, they think they are talking about "them", not "us", and inside I'm shouting that it's me they're talking about.

If, on the other hand, I could come out, I still wouldn't want to be identified as straight. When I speak of queer matters, I want to be speaking as one of them, as us. There is some comfort in being among "us", something many people in the majority don't understand. For example, straight, white, Christian men tend not to have a clue what it's like to be a minority that people don't care for. (I also don't like being in situations where I feel I should hide my atheism. While neither part of me is a constant topic of conversation or relevant most of the time, it does pop up sometimes.)

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

I don't get some bisexuals.

They are married to the opposite gender, yet they feel the need to declare and announce they are bisexual ( on facebook, their profile says " interested in men and women")


Who cares? You are happily married and living a heterosexual life just like the rest of the people in the society. Your marriage is blissful and perfect. You have a great career, family and kids. You don't have to deal with bullying or discrimination like we gay people do.

And it doesn't look like you are going to divorce your partner to be with your own gender anytime soon. You might just as well keep your bisexuality to yourself and continuing living that seemingly perfect heterosexual life like everyone else.


This is how I feel when I discovered some of my "straight" married male friends who declare themselves to be bisexual on facebook.

So obviously these bisexual friends of yours need to pick better friends - it's apparent that you're certainly not a person they need to have in their lives.

Being married to the opposite sex, does not make you straight by default. It makes you bisexual and married. They're not living a "heterosexual lifestyle"; they're living their life happy, while you're bitter that they have someone.

I don't understand how gay people have the nerve to act like homophobes(biphobes) themselves, but people do it every single day.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Excuse me? *trying not to say this is a load of crap* How about simply being someone for whom gender/biological sex is not the basis of classification?

If that's how you view it, what about people who don't view humans as the basis for sexual attraction? Or even not requiring animate objects of attraction? Shrug. I wouldn't characterize any of those things as "sexualities", I'd characterize them as fetishes, quirks, sexual psychological projections, etc.

It is essentially my situation and being retired military and still working in very conservative military environments I still have to be closeted to a degree.

Regarding the need to "declare" one's bisexuality --

I was much more comfortable being a lesbian (and choosing to hide it sometimes) than what I have now, which is being presumed to be straight because I'm with a man. For reasons I won't explain now, I can't come out.

In short you want us to shut up, deny our sexuality and live in the closet.

Regarding the last quote, it looks an awful lot like that's exactly what some of you are doing by your own choice-- for a benefit. Don't put that blame on "gay people being closedminded."

I've been lucky and able to avoid much of the persecution gays run into by just letting people follow their natural assumptions (the whole pop psychology 'privilege' crap).

You manage to openly acknowledge benefitting from a default assumption of straightness, while in the same sentence repeating your contempt for the term that describes the exact benefit you are experiencing.

 

[otters]

I use "pansexual" for that, given no better choice. The person's array of naughty bits has nothing to do with my sexuality. While I do enjoy women's bits somewhat more, especially visually, it's not really part of the eroticism.



Yes, plenty of people. I know a lot of straight men who do just the BDSM stuff with men. True, some fetishes require a particular body part, but overall, gender isn't the main factor.




Excuse me? *trying not to say this is a load of crap* How about simply being someone for whom gender/biological sex is not the basis of classification?

Although I'm not into BDSM, I'm with EJMichaels in this question. I guess I can say that the organs between a person's legs are secondary to me, I care much more what the person has between their ears.

 

[Stardreamer]

If that's how you view it, what about people who don't view humans as the basis for sexual attraction? Or even not requiring animate objects of attraction? Shrug. I wouldn't characterize any of those things as "sexualities", I'd characterize them as fetishes, quirks, sexual psychological projections, etc.







Regarding the last quote, it looks an awful lot like that's exactly what some of you are doing by your own choice-- for a benefit. Don't put that blame on "gay people being closedminded."



You manage to openly acknowledge benefitting from a default assumption of straightness, while in the same sentence repeating your contempt for the term that describes the exact benefit you are experiencing.

Oh I don't deny that the phenomena exists, but I find it adds little to the issue the way it is used so I have little respect for it when it is brought up in debate. I don't lie about my sexuality, (well I guess I did a little in the recruiting physical but I was still a little confused about it at the time and I've given a lot of thought since) I just don't talk about it and anyone can do that even most gay men. After Don't Ask, Don't Tell came into effect, the Air Force would have classified me as straight as their basis for determining sexuality was all based on actions and not orientation. I find it somewhat interesting how some people in these discussions do the exact same thing with the whole, that bi guy is going to leave you for a woman thing like their sexuality is some ever changing pendulum they can't control or they aren't really bi at all if they sleep with mostly one sex or the other. There is more to it than sex as most of us know.

As for the reply, what other people do or do not assume about me has little to do with who a really am and the poster is suggesting that bi's should just call themselves straight if they are in a relationship with a opposite sex person. Isn't that like those deluded souls who come out of the 'conversion' programs who just become celibate and call themselves 'ex-gays'? Just because you are not having a same sex relationship means your sexuality has changed.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I don't lie about my sexuality, (well I guess I did a little in the recruiting physical but I was still a little confused about it at the time and I've given a lot of thought since) I just don't talk about it and anyone can do that even most gay men. After Don't Ask, Don't Tell came into effect, the Air Force would have classified me as straight as their basis for determining sexuality was all based on actions and not orientation. I find it somewhat interesting how some people in these discussions do the exact same thing with the whole, that bi guy is going to leave you for a woman thing like their sexuality is some ever changing pendulum they can't control or they aren't really bi at all if they sleep with mostly one sex or the other. There is more to it than sex as most of us know.

As for the reply, what other people do or do not assume about me has little to do with who a really am and the poster is suggesting that bi's should just call themselves straight if they are in a relationship with a opposite sex person. Isn't that like those deluded souls who come out of the 'conversion' programs who just become celibate and call themselves 'ex-gays'? Just because you are not having a same sex relationship means your sexuality has changed.

What I am saying is that it is simply bizarre you take such great exception to what people not part of your day to day life may say or think about bisexuality when, in your actual day to day life, you are closeted to hide from homophobic social and professional repercussions you would likely experience in your job and in your community.

Compared to the fact that you've surrendered entirely to a closeted lifestyle, I don't see how what anyone says online stands to affect you on a remotely similar plane. How gay people would or wouldn't receive you as a bisexual person seems utterly beside the point if you hide your sexuality in the real world anyway.

Oh I don't deny that the phenomena exists, but I find it adds little to the issue the way it is used so I have little respect for it when it is brought up in debate.

You found it relevant enough to describe the phenomena and your use of it, you just don't like the term. Ok.

 

[pat grimshaw]

^

Yes. Let's be frank, 'bisexuals' are quislings.

 

[luckynumbah7]

If that's how you view it, what about people who don't view humans as the basis for sexual attraction? Or even not requiring animate objects of attraction? Shrug. I wouldn't characterize any of those things as "sexualities", I'd characterize them as fetishes, quirks, sexual psychological projections, etc.

Not requiring animate objects of attraction would be a fetish because - inanimate objects. Granted, I'm assuming you don't mean no objects whatsoever and not, say, a bridge or a broken blender. Only one of which I've seen. And no, twasn't the blender.

I've no idea where you're going with the first premise. So what if someone doesn't consider humans the basis of sexual attraction? When they do not, they generally have another idea in mind. Usually a single version of an inanimate object. Like the bridge. Not that I know much about feeling sexual attraction, seeing as I don't have that. I like sex and I like people, but I lack sexual attraction. I can tell aesthetics (you'd better, in the art/literature world) and I do have preferences but they're not for sexual attraction reasons.

I never thought "I like sex" + "I like people" would be that hard to grasp when who you fuck isn't based on genitalia or gender identity. Which part of that combination are people having issues with and why?

 

[Stardreamer]

What I am saying is that it is simply bizarre you take such great exception to what people not part of your day to day life may say or think about bisexuality when, in your actual day to day life, you are closeted to hide from homophobic social and professional repercussions you would likely experience in your job and in your community.

Compared to the fact that you've surrendered entirely to a closeted lifestyle, I don't see how what anyone says online stands to affect you on a remotely similar plane. How gay people would or wouldn't receive you as a bisexual person seems utterly beside the point if you hide your sexuality in the real world anyway.



You found it relevant enough to describe the phenomena and your use of it, you just don't like the term. Ok.

Not so much closeted as you might think, my family and close friends know. At work, everyone knows where I stand on gay rights issues and marriage. But the environment is such that wearing my sexuality on my sleeve would be seen as being a troublemaker and that's not what I am, so I don't. If someone wants to know I will tell them.

As for the term, yes I don't like it but more because I think when you start tossing around pop psychology, social and science terms around your engaging in a crutch and even using them as excuses to not realistically deal with issues. I have similar problems with folks who talk about environmental, immigration and other issues in apocalyptic terms.

As for my reaction to the subject, just like do with the one or two homophobes at work when I see it, when I see bigotry I'm going to call you on it. Especially in places like this where I was really surprised to find it even though I shouldn't be, if one thing I've learned in life it is that bigotry exists everywhere and seems a part of Human nature.