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What if Britain had won?

Ephemeral

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If Britain had won the Revolutionary War, how would it have shaped America?

  • No Independence Day
  • The Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, and the Amendments would have never existed.
  • Manifest Destiny might not of existed, meaning many of the Western states wouldn't come to be.
  • The California Gold Rush would of never existed
  • The Trail of Tears might not have happened.
  • There'd be A LOT more Native Americans than there are now and no reservations.
  • Native Americans would have a huge impact on our culture.
  • The Mexican-American War and Spanish-American War would have never existed.
  • Abolishing slavery would have happened a lot earlier.
  • The Civil War would have never existed.
  • We would have civil unions, since Britain has them.
  • We might not be a superpower like we are now
 
If Britain had won the Revolutionary War, how would it have shaped America?

  • No Independence Day
  • The Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, and the Amendments would have never existed.
  • Manifest Destiny might not of existed, meaning many of the Western states wouldn't come to be.
  • The California Gold Rush would of never existed
  • The Trail of Tears might not have happened.
  • There'd be A LOT more Native Americans than there are now and no reservations.
  • Native Americans would have a huge impact on our culture.
  • The Mexican-American War and Spanish-American War would have never existed.
  • Abolishing slavery would have happened a lot earlier.
  • The Civil War would have never existed.
  • We would have civil unions, since Britain has them.
  • We might not be a superpower like we are now

We wouldnt have lost.
 
[*]There'd be A LOT more Native Americans than there are now and no reservations.


Please correct me if i'm wrong, but it was the European settlers - starting with the British Pilgrims - who killed thousands of them with smallpox and by forcing them out of their land, which caused them to starve to death.

it was still the white man who did that to them. The British would NOT have peacefully co-existed with them.


-----

Abolishing slavery would have happened a lot earlier.



Britain outlawed slave trade in 1807, but slaves were still being smuggled illegally into Britain for decades after this; The Slavery Abolition Act wasn't signed into law until 1833. The American Civil War ran from 1861-1865, so you're correct: Slavery would have ended over 30 years sooner, and over 620,000 lives would have been saved.




We would have civil unions, since Britain has them.



And Tea Time. Can't forget Tea Time.



We might not be a superpower like we are now



Well, if Britain hadn't lost control over America, they would have become a very successful global empire. The British Crown would be the superpower.
 
IF ...

Really bad dentistry and a complete abandonment of the English language. (freshen ya drink, gov'na?)

Really? You think it's the British who tend towards a complete abandonment of the English language?

What about the spelling changes in American English? The illogical change in the sequence of tenses employed in US English? The almost *complete* abandonment of the past perfect tense in US English? The impossible combination of the past simple and adverbs such as 'yet' which is commonplace in US English. These are just a few examples of grammatical deviation.

But I definitely agree with you on the bad dentistry :D
 
The United States was going to become independent, one way or another. The colonists would not have stopped being pissed and dropped the independence spirit.

So it was not a question of if, but when.



Fun Fact: Benjamin Franklin was a loyalist to the British, and accepted them as our Mother Country up until the Revolutionary war. Many of his closest friends were "British Spies".


Other Fun Fact: He was also against supporting the French.






Really? You think it's the British who tend towards a complete abandonment of the English language?

What about the spelling changes in American English?


Aluminum, Aluminium.
 
•The Trail of Tears might not have happened.
•There'd be A LOT more Native Americans than there are now and no reservations.
•Native Americans would have a huge impact on our culture.

Oh, yea., Ever look at what the English did to the Australian Aborigines.
 
The United States was going to become independent, one way or another. The colonists would not have stopped being pissed and dropped the independence spirit.

So it was not a question of if, but when.

I was thinking the same thing really. The colonists were deadset on being free from British control. They wouldn't let a war sway their views.

Nomenclature said:
Please correct me if i'm wrong, but it was the European settlers - starting with the British Pilgrims - who killed thousands of them with smallpox and by forcing them out of their land, which caused them to starve to death.

it was still the white man who did that to them. The British would NOT have peacefully co-existed with them.

Nomenclature, it did start with British Pilgrims but the French and Indian War did them in as well. The British had tribes fighting against each other, promising whichever tribe they choose to align themselves with with false rewards. This drastically reduced the NA population. Andrew Jackson hated Native Americans as well. He disregarded their rights completely and were repulsed by them. Manifest Destiny stated that Americans had a "natural-born right" to expand West, no matter what NAs wanted.

The American government (or the White man, whichever you wanna choose) gave NAs reservations that were supposed to be for NAs only. White-Americans still trotted on their land and nearly wiped out the buffalo population. Many Native Americans were either forced into or willingly took on the Whites' customs and culture in order to fit in and succeed. Their reservations got increasingly smaller and smaller until the government ejected them out completely and made to walk to Oklahoma aka the Trail of Tears. 4,000 Cherokee members died, with others suffering disease and starvation.

I think they'd of had a better chance if the Brits won. There'd of been conflict, but I think there'd be a lot more NAs left.

Britain outlawed slave trade in 1807, but slaves were still being smuggled illegally into Britain for decades after this; The Slavery Abolition Act wasn't signed into law until 1833. The American Civil War ran from 1861-1865, so you're correct: Slavery would have ended over 30 years sooner, and over 620,000 lives would have been saved.

Yeah, the abolishment of slavery was like Prohibition (except it wasn't made legal again like alcohol was). It was abolished but still practiced in large amounts.

Well, if Britain hadn't lost control over America, they would have become a very successful global empire. The British Crown would be the superpower.

Britian would have immense power and influence over the world. They had diddled in Asia and India too.

And Tea Time. Can't forget Tea Time.

How could I forget Tea Time? Blueberry scones with Earl Gray would be a fabulous experience.
 
Although there are variations of the English language throughout North America, the actual spoken words are comprised of all 26 letters of the alphabet. Conversely, you would find it incredibly difficult to find anyone within the United Kingdom who utilizes even two-thirds of the available consonants and vowels.

Well firstly, consonants and vowels as you're referring to them only apply to the written language. The spoken language is not composed of letters, it is actually composed of more than 50 sounds. The ability to use these sounds, and the accuracy in doing so, is largely connected to a person's level of education. It is not connected to nationality - especially given regional accents which again add differentiation.
 
by cutting economic, social and political ties with america it was most certainly us Brits who won!
 
The American government (or the White man, whichever you wanna choose)


The reason I say "white men", is because it was European settlers moving to this country that devastated the Indian population, not only the American government.



I think they'd of had a better chance if the Brits won. There'd of been conflict, but I think there'd be a lot more NAs left.


I think they would have still had to move to reservations regardless. America was founded on death and destruction, though. We even wistfully sing about bombs blowing up in our national anthem. :lol:



Britian would have immense power and influence over the world. They had diddled in Asia and India too.



They only recently gave up control over Hong Kong, for example.



I don't believe they would have been able to handle running that many countries at once, though. Look what happened to the Roman Empire.




How could I forget Tea Time? Blueberry scones with Earl Gray would be a fabulous experience.



::sips with pinkey finger out::



by cutting economic, social and political ties with america it was most certainly us Brits who won!


Britons fought along side us in the World Wars. Tony Blair and the Royal Family were buddy-buddy with George W. Bush over the Iraqi War during his term, and I believe Prince Harry is still serving in Iraq or Afghanistan.


Many Britons also visited the US to campaign for John Kerry and Barack Obama's president in 2004 and 2008, as well. And one of you married Dennis Kucinich and is now heavily in support of American politics.




So, I wouldn't say your political ties are necessarily "cut" with us.
 
As a teacher of American History, and specifically one who teaches history from the Age of Exploration to The Civil War, I have thought about the conditions and causes of the break-up of British North America.

A country sets up a colony for the purpose of the benefit of the mother country. While the initial explorers came looking for the "Northwest Passage" they discovered a land and sea laden with exploitable resources. The countries in best position to take advantage of such natural riches were Spain, France and Great Britain.

The British arrived first, in 1607 (okay, the Vikings were here first, in Newfoundland, but they kept their discoveries to themselves) and set up Jamestown.

Not to be outdone, in 1608, the French sailed up the St. Lawrence River and established the colony which we know today as Quebec City, and Montreal soon thereafter.

The British returned with the Pilgrims' landing at Plymouth in 1620, and the Dutch got into the act by 1624 when Peter Minuit bought the island we know today as Manhattan.

The Spanish had already firmly established their domain over the southern part of the continent in Mexico, and along the Gulf Coast of today's southern USA.

Each established colonies were shipping raw materials such as fur pelts, precious minerals, tobacco and cotton back to their mother countries.

It was all boiling down to who was going to ultimately be the dominant power on the continent. The British and French had been at odds with each other for hundreds of years before, so it was inevitable that they would clash over the new land. The British effectively overthrew the Dutch in a pretty peaceful transition of power in 1664, taking control of the New Netherland colony, and turning it into New York. It would take The British over another one hundred years and an alliance with the Native American Iroquois people to finally defeat the French.

In the mean time, the people of the British North American colonies were developing their own social, political and economic culture. Yes, it was based on British tradition and order, but it was far removed from it. And Mother Britain failed to recognize the people of the colonies as full-fledged British citizens.

It was more pronounced in the southern colonies than it was in Upper Canada (Ontario) or Quebec. The most brilliant thinkers to come from the southern colonies, people like Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Paine, George Washington, and many others, realized that the destiny of the colonies would be better served in the hands of the people living there, rather than a disinterested monarch living 3000 miles across the Atlantic.

To "punish" the colonies, the monarch began taking interest and coming up with all kinds of laws and taxes to put the colonists in their place. Rather than creating an submissive, obedient colonist, it sparked more anger and led to revolution.

The northern colonies (Quebec, Upper Canada, The Maritimes) would eventually gain their independence through evolution in 1867. The southern colonies revolted and would declare their freedom in 1776. The war lasted until 1781, with the colonial victory at the Battle of Yorktown, and the Treaty of Paris in 1783.

For the now fledgling United States of America, the struggle with the British would continue for years to come, continuing with the War of 1812, and finally settling down in 1815, after the Treaty of Ghent was signed (and Andrew Jackson broke it at The Battle of New Orleans in early 1815).

If Britain had successfully stopped the revolution, I think the course of history would have looked different, but I believe that its outcome would have been similar. The southern colonies would have eventually continued to fight for, or they would have been granted independence. Perhaps, rather than a United States and Canada, there may have been one nation, united by their mutual interests and survival. The actual outcome resulted in two distinct North American cultures, Canadian and American. Both are rich and noble in heritage and tradition. The Canadians have their mixed British-French traditions. The Americans developed a culture as being the open arms to the rest of the world, embracing the traditions of many cultures, while developing one of their own.

I truly believe that history happened as it should have. The United States and the United Kingdom enjoy a close, relationship now. It took working out our differences then, to have the close and strong ties that we have. And that's my take on the question...
 
[Britons fought along side us in the World Wars. Tony Blair and the Royal Family were buddy-buddy with George W. Bush over the Iraqi War during his term, and I believe Prince Harry is still serving in Iraq or Afghanistan.


Many Britons also visited the US to campaign for John Kerry and Barack Obama's president in 2004 and 2008, as well. And one of you married Dennis Kucinich and is now heavily in support of American politics.




So, I wouldn't say your political ties are necessarily "cut" with us.[/QUOTE]

i believe it was you who fought alongside US in the world wars...lol, love revionist american history
 
The British arrived first, in 1607 (okay, the Vikings were here first, in Newfoundland, but they kept their discoveries to themselves) and set up Jamestown.

One little correction, Sir Ron:

The French were first to arrive. Samuel de Champlain and Pierre Dugua, Sieur de Mons, sailed into the Bay of Fundy in 1605 and put to shore and created a settlement in present-day Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia. The town still exists on its original site.

Map: http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=...44.840291,-63.94043&spn=2.286325,5.817261&z=8
 
I stand corrected, my good friend. And I have been to Annapolis Royal too! I should have remembered that! That's what happens when I start spouting history from the top of my head! :D

One little correction, Sir Ron:

The French were first to arrive. Samuel de Champlain and Pierre Dugua, Sieur de Mons, sailed into the Bay of Fundy in 1605 and put to shore and created a settlement in present-day Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia. The town still exists on its original site.

Map: http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=...44.840291,-63.94043&spn=2.286325,5.817261&z=8
 
^Bad history teacher! Bad! :p

If the United States and Canada would have bcome one nation, would we be speaking English, French, or both?
 
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