What is a 'gay man?', an article I'm writing

[Lube]

Because they're only sexually interested in women, they only date women and they aren't interested in men. They have plenty of gay friends, live in a community that treats gay people like a non-issue and still... they're only interested in women.

And that's exactly what my bf and I did. So according to you, you would have no idea that we were gay, would you?

Or would you?

(As you surmised the rest of my comment was straight-acting blather that people here use all the time to "prove" they're straight acting)

 

[Lube]

Ok, this deserved it's own post.

What the fuck does being an engineer have to do with being straight?

My husband is an architect. I know three gay porn stars who are engineers (two mechanical, one structural), one of my best friends is a rocket scientist who works for NASA and his boyfriend is a fireman.

Seriously... give your head a shake.

The point I was making there is that is precisely the kinds of excuses guys here give all the time for showing that they're straight acting and "nobody knows I'm gay". And as you correctly pointed out, it's bullshit.

Oh, those facts may be true, but we always tell the 50% of the story that makes us look straight. We use that to convince ourselves that we're straight acting.

But we neglect the other attributes.

"I'm a power lifter!" (But I also love Broadway)

"I'm an engineer!" ( but I love Glee)

"I watch Football every weekend!" (but I wear the official team jersey with the name of the hottest player on my back)

"I have a Motorcycle!" (and use it to pick up guys at leather bars to have sex with them)

"I own a loft!" (in dramatic colors in the hip part of town that's spare and Steve Jobsian)

"I smoke cigars!" (and play in my leather sling while my little white doggie watches)

"I drive a truck!" (and park it in the driveway next to the fabulous Halloween decorations that you can see a mile away)

It's all delusional.

 

[Krakenbwool]

"I watch Football every weekend!" (but I wear the official team jersey with the name of the hottest player on my back)

"I have a Motorcycle!" (and use it to pick up guys at leather bars to have sex with them)

These are the only two that can technically be classified as "gay," since they involve attraction to men. The rest are just camp.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

"I'm a power lifter!" (But I also love Broadway)

"I'm an engineer!" ( but I love Glee)

"I watch Football every weekend!" (but I wear the official team jersey with the name of the hottest player on my back)

"I have a Motorcycle!" (and use it to pick up guys at leather bars to have sex with them)

"I own a loft!" (in dramatic colors in the hip part of town that's spare and Steve Jobsian)

"I smoke cigars!" (and play in my leather sling while my little white doggie watches)

"I drive a truck!" (and park it in the driveway next to the fabulous Halloween decorations that you can see a mile away)

It's all delusional.

YOU'RE delusional.

and I'm surprised to find out homophobic you are.

 

[Lube]

These are the only two that can technically be classified as "gay," since they involve attraction to men. The rest are just camp.

Every one of those is an example I know from the real world (mixed up, to protect the innocent).

I think most guys reading that, who have been out in the gay community, would chuckle to themselves, having seen very much the same thing.

 

[Lube]

YOU'RE delusional.

and I'm surprised to find out homophobic you are.

Quite the opposite.

I embrace my feminine side.

Not run away from it and deny it, as you guys seem to do.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Quite the opposite.

I embrace my feminine side.

Not run away from it and deny it, as you guys seem to do.

Well no, what's so homophobic about you is how you assume that I ride a motorcycle to pick up men at leather bars or that because I'm gay I have to like "Glee" or have a sling.

Or that straight men wouldn't live in a loft apartment (which would mean that 95% of downtown Toronto is nothing but gay men since that's pretty much all that was down there when I left the city) or own small white dogs.

your homophobia is just disgusting. I'm shocked.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

Eh, Lube is just being Lube. He thinks half of Americans are closet guys in denial. He also thinks that bisexuals are queens in a state of suspension/disbelief.

He decides to come out after being married for years and suddenly he has this big revelation and has taken it upon himself to tell everyone what they are. lol

well that's just WAY too authoritarian for him to be gay, he's clearly straight and just in denial.

 

[blogthissucker]

I think I should add that the stereotypical assumptions being perpetuated by some here are essentially identical to those that kept me from coming to grips with my own sexuality. I didn't accept that I was gay until I was 20, 21, because I didn't fit in with any of the stereotypes that culture foists upon us. And most of my friends were genuinely shocked when I did come out because I didn't conform to the stereotypes.

I think that this is a really important point.

Even if Lube thinks that all gays are stereotypes, I think it's important that all the closeted people reading this thread understand that you don't have to become a stereotype or otherwise reinvent yourself in order to come out. If you send the message that you're still the same person and you just happen to date dudes now, most people will respect that and expect you to act just the same.

...from this thread, it's clear that not EVERYONE will treat you the same. There will be some straight people who are surprised if you don't become a stereotype - they'll get used to it eventually. There will also be some gay guys who will tell you that you are a stereotype and you're just blind to it - they probably won't change their minds

 

[FanofFiction]

I also have NFL jerseys with the names of the hottest players. hehe. Brady and Sanchez!! Go team(s)!

This thread is crazy and all over the place. I feel like some of you guys put too much emphasis on what you do as defining points to who you are. It's difficult for me to explain through type... Some of you for example are using your cars to suggest whether you can straight acting or masculine, as if that has some great power to hide your sexuality. Two guys can both drive identical Chargers but when they get out of the car, you can still usually tell if one of the two guys are gay and which one. Not always true, but often. Sports also don't really mask your sexuality- in my opinion. When I go to hockey games with my guy I can usually point out gay men in the arena.

I also feel as if some guys in here are going the total opposite in that nothing external can give a hint to one's sexuality. Though an interest in a particular subject or activity can belong to either orientation, they do sometimes suggest if a person is straight or gay.

I guess what I'm saying is that there is no absolutes. A great deal of it involves how a person celebrates an interest or how they interact with others. Also, combinations of interests and mannerisms provide more informed 'tells' of one's sexuality... so by saying one enjoys Madonna, Cher, Queer as Folk, small dogs, and other stereotypes gives more ground for guessing.

 

[gsdx]

What I am saying is that most if not all gay men have some combination of special (effeminate?) attributes that distinguishes us from straight men.

That's the part I'm having a problem with.

I don't fit in any of the stereotypes. I don't have "some combination of special (effeminate?) attributes".

I don't fit your definition, and I'm pretty damned sure there are a lot of guys here who don't fit it, either.

I even have a problem with "most".

'Many', yes. 'Most', no.

 

[Lube]

I think that this is a really important point.

Even if Lube thinks that all gays are stereotypes, I think it's important that all the closeted people reading this thread understand that you don't have to become a stereotype or otherwise reinvent yourself in order to come out. If you send the message that you're still the same person and you just happen to date dudes now, most people will respect that and expect you to act just the same.

...from this thread, it's clear that not EVERYONE will treat you the same. There will be some straight people who are surprised if you don't become a stereotype - they'll get used to it eventually. There will also be some gay guys who will tell you that you are a stereotype and you're just blind to it - they probably won't change their minds

well, since you clearly haven't read what I've written, there's no point in writing anything else in this reply.

 

[Lube]

I also have NFL jerseys with the names of the hottest players. hehe. Brady and Sanchez!! Go team(s)!

This thread is crazy and all over the place. I feel like some of you guys put too much emphasis on what you do as defining points to who you are. It's difficult for me to explain through type... Some of you for example are using your cars to suggest whether you can straight acting or masculine, as if that has some great power to hide your sexuality. Two guys can both drive identical Chargers but when they get out of the car, you can still usually tell if one of the two guys are gay and which one. Not always true, but often. Sports also don't really mask your sexuality- in my opinion. When I go to hockey games with my guy I can usually point out gay men in the arena.

I also feel as if some guys in here are going the total opposite in that nothing external can give a hint to one's sexuality. Though an interest in a particular subject or activity can belong to either orientation, they do sometimes suggest if a person is straight or gay.

I guess what I'm saying is that there is no absolutes. A great deal of it involves how a person celebrates an interest or how they interact with others. Also, combinations of interests and mannerisms provide more informed 'tells' of one's sexuality... so by saying one enjoys Madonna, Cher, Queer as Folk, small dogs, and other stereotypes gives more ground for guessing.

Finally, a sane voice in the crowd.

 

[Lube]

Well no, what's so homophobic about you is how you assume that I ride a motorcycle to pick up men at leather bars or that because I'm gay I have to like "Glee" or have a sling.

Or that straight men wouldn't live in a loft apartment (which would mean that 95% of downtown Toronto is nothing but gay men since that's pretty much all that was down there when I left the city) or own small white dogs.

your homophobia is just disgusting. I'm shocked.

Who said I was talking about you when I mentioned motorcycles and leather bars? Because of my beliefs you think I can't hang out at leather bars and have leather-, cigar-, and motorcycle-loving friends and bf?

You think guys living in city lofts are a perfect cross section of society? That there are as many straight, 50-year old men with kids living in lofts as young single (gay) guys?

And you say you don't have any external gay traits, and yet by your own admission, in high school you didn't want to fuck Olivia Newton John, you wanted to be Olivia Newton John? In what stead did that put you with your straight friends?

 

[Lube]

That's the part I'm having a problem with.

I don't fit in any of the stereotypes. I don't have "some combination of special (effeminate?) attributes".

I don't fit your definition, and I'm pretty damned sure there are a lot of guys here who don't fit it, either.

I even have a problem with "most".

'Many', yes. 'Most', no.

Seriously, you have none? A 10-second google search on the guys in your siggie reveals quite the opposite. Farscape has a big gay following. And HGTV? Seriously?

Denial.

 

[Lube]

You know guys, I don't fit all the stereotypes, either. I can't stand Barbara Streisand or Cher, I've never done drag, and in fact I can't stand Glee, but that doesn't make me all buff and macho and straight appearing.

I love Duran Duran. I hate watching football on tv, but love hanging out with the cute gay guys who get together to watch it.

I am proud of the fact I'm a mixture of masculine & feminine. I revel in it.

My friends are also mixtures, but everyone's mixture is different. That's what makes us unique.

It's like the local gay rag here: their tag line is "Embrace your inner gay"

 

[gsdx]

Seriously, you have none? A 10-second google search on the guys in your siggie reveals quite the opposite. Farscape has a big gay following. And HGTV? Seriously?

Denial.

I'm gay. I like looking at attractive men.

I'm not a Farscape fan. I'm a fan of Stargate SG-1

And what's wrong with HGTV? Have you ever seen the shit that's on the other stations?

Now, tell me. How in hell does all that prove that I'm effeminate?

 

[Lube]

I'm gay. I like looking at attractive men.

I'm not a Farscape fan. I'm a fan of Stargate SG-1

And what's wrong with HGTV? Have you ever seen the shit that's on the other stations?

Now, tell me. How in hell does all that prove that I'm effeminate?

There's nothing wrong with HGTV. There's nothing wrong with being gay or having some effeminate traits, either.

I'm not saying you (or I or any particular gay) is only effeminate.

I'm just saying that, on average, we have more effeminate traits than straight guys.

That's all. That's why I said the OP's "essay" had much truth in it, but he over-applied it.

That's it. I'm not saying anything revolutionary.

But the second anyone even hints that gay guys are even slightly more effeminate, JUBbers go ballistic. I just don't get it.

But I'm sure it helps JUB's bottom line, with all the extra page/ad hits.

 

[Lube]

I'm not saying you (or I or any particular gay) is only effeminate.

I'm just saying that, on average, we have more effeminate traits than straight guys.

Maybe because that statement doesn't apply to all gay people?

Can you read?

So, what is an effeminate trait?

It's partly cultural. And it's like porn--you know it when you see it.

How else can you explain 8 year olds picking on the "faggy" kid, long before anyone reaches puberty and thinks about sex? Bullying isn't just in high school, or adulthood.

How do these 8 year olds know?

 

[gsdx]

I'm just saying that, on average, we have more effeminate traits than straight guys.

No. You said (and I repeat): "What I am saying is that most if not all gay men have some combination of special (effeminate?) attributes that distinguishes us from straight men."

"Most if not all" does not equal "on average".