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What is new on the Gay Marriage front?

Rolyo85 said:
And they spinner it as "we attracted more citizens, they attracted more media."
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I don't believe that for a second unless you're talking about Fox and the conservative blogosphere.

We're going to get our Illinois vote November 7 in all likelihood. If we do not "there will be hell to pay." We will do the same thing that we did in Rhode Island and primary the shit out of the obstinate Democrats. They think they have conservative challengers to worry about? We have not yet begun to fight!
 
Indeed Alnitak,one of the reasons gay marriage finally passed in RI was many of the bigoted Democrats who stood in the way got the boot.
And let's not forget NY. Many of the turncoat Democrats got the boot for what they did in 09.
They thought there wouldn't be a price to pay for their no votes,they thought wrong.
 
Hawaii's special session starts Monday.

One of the biggest issues cropping up is actually for profit church-based wedding services. Hawaii is a huge destination state for weddings. However services cannot discriminate including for profit churches. I wonder if this applies only to legal weddings because the antidiscrimination law has been on the books a long time. Or as usual conservatives are using the marriage bill as another attempt to carve out exceptions from the civil rights act.
 
Alnitak said:
Hawaii's special session starts Monday.

One of the biggest issues cropping up is actually for profit church-based wedding services. Hawaii is a huge destination state for weddings. However services cannot discriminate including for profit churches. I wonder if this applies only to legal weddings because the antidiscrimination law has been on the books a long time. Or as usual conservatives are using the marriage bill as another attempt to carve out exceptions from the civil rights act.
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I've never heard of churches making a profit on weddings before -- that's disgusting!
 
Every time I see this thread I read it "What is new on the Gay Marriage font?" I didn't know there was one.
But no, nothing new on the front here in Texas.
 
Kulindahr said:
I've never heard of churches making a profit on weddings before -- that's disgusting!
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Pastors make money performing the ceremony. The parents pay the church basement ladies to provide a luncheon during the reception if it's held at the church. The parents often pay the church for use of the building, utilities, etc.

Weddings and funerals are profitable for churches.
 
CowboyBob said:
Pastors make money performing the ceremony. The parents pay the church basement ladies to provide a luncheon during the reception if it's held at the church. The parents often pay the church for use of the building, utilities, etc.

Weddings and funerals are profitable for churches.
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Correct, but generating profit does not make an organization a for-profit organization. The subtlety is in what they do with it. There must be no beneficiaries of a non-profit organization. Thus, the ceremony facility part of the church cannot directly run a for profit service and be organized as a church or with a church. The facility in question must also be registered properly for taxes.

We saw this problem occur before where a Methodist church ran a wedding facility in Ocean Grove, New Jersey. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486340

The services in question in Hawaii are performed in facilities that generate profits that go to either owners or investors. I see no reason why same sex couples do not already use these services. The HuffPo article failed to provide further details. Usually, the defense our opponents offer at hearings is that passing same sex marriage will make the "problem worse."
 
CowboyBob said:
Pastors make money performing the ceremony. The parents pay the church basement ladies to provide a luncheon during the reception if it's held at the church. The parents often pay the church for use of the building, utilities, etc.

Weddings and funerals are profitable for churches.
Click to expand...

I've known lots of pastors, and none of them ever made a dime from a wedding.
 
Alnitak said:
Correct, but generating profit does not make an organization a for-profit organization. The subtlety is in what they do with it. There must be no beneficiaries of a non-profit organization. Thus, the ceremony facility part of the church cannot directly run a for profit service and be organized as a church or with a church. The facility in question must also be registered properly for taxes.
Click to expand...

Exactly. To qualify as a church, they can't make a profit on a wedding. Those charges Bob referenced have to be the actual cost of using the facility.
 
Alnitak said:
Correct, but generating profit does not make an organization a for-profit organization. The subtlety is in what they do with it. There must be no beneficiaries of a non-profit organization. Thus, the ceremony facility part of the church cannot directly run a for profit service and be organized as a church or with a church. The facility in question must also be registered properly for taxes.

We saw this problem occur before where a Methodist church ran a wedding facility in Ocean Grove, New Jersey. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486340

The services in question in Hawaii are performed in facilities that generate profits that go to either owners or investors. I see no reason why same sex couples do not already use these services. The HuffPo article failed to provide further details. Usually, the defense our opponents offer at hearings is that passing same sex marriage will make the "problem worse."
Click to expand...

I think the courts are being ridiculous about this. If there's any religious freedom at all, it has to include the right to decide who can do what on what are considered sacred grounds.

"What if a church offers marriage counseling? Will they be able to say 'No, we're not going to help gay couples get along because it violates our religious principles to do so? What about summer camps? Will they be able to insist that gay couples not serve as staff because they're a bad example?" Stern asks.
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THe answer to all those should be "It's up to the church".
 
Kulindahr said:
I think the courts are being ridiculous about this. If there's any religious freedom at all, it has to include the right to decide who can do what on what are considered sacred grounds.
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In this case where profits are generated, that blurs the lines between dedicated religious operation and public accommodations.

Also, courts do not get involved in religious disputes, e.g. what constitutes "sacred." However, the First Amendment does protect on what occurs on church property that is not profit generating.
 
Alnitak said:
In this case where profits are generated, that blurs the lines between dedicated religious operation and public accommodations.

Also, courts do not get involved in religious disputes, e.g. what constitutes "sacred." However, the First Amendment does protect on what occurs on church property that is not profit generating.
Click to expand...

The simple rule would be that so long as charges for use of property are no greater than the actual cost of providing them, the church can pick and choose who to allow the use. But if they're making a profit, then they have to open it to everyone.

Although if someone founded the Church of the Eternal Treasury, with the holy Rules of Acquisition, an exception might have to be made.... :p
 
The Hawaii session gay marriage starts tommorrow,keep your fingers crossed.
 
Hawaii's a done deal. It's the only issue on the agenda and they have the schedule all laid out. Also, they never would've scheduled the session if they weren't sure they had the votes.

Illinois is where we need to pull out all the shots to assure it's voted on next month. However, it's important to remember that even if it's not, it will be approved in January as the deadline for primaries will have passed.
 
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