The Original Gay Porn Community - Free Gay Movies and Photos, Gay Porn Site Reviews and Adult Gay Forums

  • Welcome To Just Us Boys - The World's Largest Gay Message Board Community

    In order to comply with recent US Supreme Court rulings regarding adult content, we will be making changes in the future to require that you log into your account to view adult content on the site.
    If you do not have an account, please register.
    REGISTER HERE - 100% FREE / We Will Never Sell Your Info

    PLEASE READ: To register, turn off your VPN (iPhone users- disable iCloud); you can re-enable the VPN after registration. You must maintain an active email address on your account: disposable email addresses cannot be used to register.

What the Hell is Wrong with these Soldiers?

Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

I think the salute is based upon tradition rather than regulation. It is also my understanding that Ronald Reagan was the first president to salute the MOH.

Must all troops salute Medal of Honor recipients?


Other references:

It is customary to salute a Medal of Honor recipient no matter what your rank. It might not be required, but it would sure be a stigma to refuse to give that person the honor, no matter how many stars are on your collar.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

Yes, a tax credit isn't affirmative action, it's more of a thank-you. One assumes they're being hired on merit, anyway.

We had that at a place where I work part-time now. There were tax credits for hiring vets, but instead of making it part of any recruitment questions, etc., it was only a question asked during their on boarding. The company didn't give preference, but if a vet was hired, they wanted to know.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

We had that at a place where I work part-time now. There were tax credits for hiring vets, but instead of making it part of any recruitment questions, etc., it was only a question asked during their on boarding. The company didn't give preference, but if a vet was hired, they wanted to know.

That's what I'm assuming. I've never seen it on an application, and I've seen a lot of those recently as I've worked at helping some local kids find work. And that's the way it should be -- hiring someone because he or she was military, but doesn't have the right qualifications, is stupid.

There's a local farmer here who will hire any non-disabled veteran, but he's in a unique situation: there's almost nobody out there who has the skills he needs, and since he's going to have to train them anyway, he wants to help out veterans and also get people accustomed to discipline.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

Resorting to the law is a cheap and deceptive ploy. Any time one class of people is given preference on the basis of something besides merit, it's affirmative action.

That's an interesting take. I think I'll work that one into my repertoire from time to time!:D

In any event, affirmative action gives a benefit based on a factor over which you have no control. Race, ethnicity or sex. You get admitted to school or hired because of the color of your skin, national origin or gender.

Veteran's preference is predicated on your having done something over which you had a choice. Joining the military and serving your country. Your thinking would also require us to accept the tax benefit to home ownership, charitable contributions and marriage as affirmative action, since people engaging in these activities are given preferential treatment.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

In any event, affirmative action gives a benefit based on a factor over which you have no control. Race, ethnicity or sex. You get admitted to school or hired because of the color of your skin, national origin or gender.
.

You can't choose your ethnic background or your parents. Minorities make up a disproportionate amount of the poorer parts of our country.

At least with being a soldier, you can choose to be a soldier.

Any time you confer an advantage for someone not based on merit, you are participating in Affirmative Action. You might not like the AA word, but that's exactly what it is for soldiers. Again, this is more of the same from conservatives: AA is good for me, but not for others and socialism is good for me but not for everyone. (BTW, Jackoroe, should the soldiers give up their socialized medicine and join HMOs?)

Please, tell me, Jackoroe, how being Native American or an ex-soldier, in and of itself, makes you more capable to invest people's money?

If being of a certain racial background or an ex-soldier doesn't make you more knowledgeable for a specific job, how is giving points to Native Americans different than giving points to ex-soldiers in the hiring process different?
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

If being of a certain racial background or an ex-soldier doesn't make you more knowledgeable for a specific job, how is giving points to Native Americans different than giving points to ex-soldiers in the hiring process different?

Affirmative Action does not require employers to hire less qualified applicants. Rather, it involves ensuring that employers take steps to offer equal opportunities to all applicants, according to attributes associated with the recruitment pool available in their area. Affirmative Action is only required for employers who have demonstrated evidence of discriminatory hiring practices that are not based upon merit – and is generally only enforced for a limited period of time. More sophisticated employers are often proactive to include fair hiring practices, such as affirmative action, voluntarily.

Job specifications are generally based upon KSAs (knowledge, skills, and abilities) that are applicable to each respective position within an organization. In some situations, they can also involve specific certification or licensing, as appropriate to the position.

Most job specifications cannot validate a college degree as a basis for selection – even though many employers list a degree as a general requirement for certain positions. Nonetheless, a degree can be used as a preference in recruitment and hiring, because a degree provides evidence of discipline, research skills, information evaluation and processing, analytical skills, problem-solving skills, etc.

Similarly, military experience can be used as a preference, because it provides experience demonstrating discipline, reliability, task-assessment, task-completion, working within situations involving group dynamics, team leadership, delegation, time management, decision-making, communication skills, etc.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

Affirmative action is the assumption that a minority individual has faced, personally, a more difficult road in the working world than a non-minority individual.

This can be shown to be true at the statistical level, but of course it is not guaranteed to be true for any particular individual, which is why so many people judge it to be unfair. And of course most people are minorities in ways not recognised by a legislative standard.

I'd love to see it replaced with a more accurate standard.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

Not only did this loser have a killer's lust for blood

I don't think you understand that ALL soldiers are supposed to have that to some extent. You can't be a softie when you are getting your body shot up.

The problem was not that he had a lust for blood, it was that he targeted that at innocents rather than enemy combatants.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

Affirmative Action does not require employers to hire less qualified applicants. Rather, it involves ensuring that employers take steps to offer equal opportunities to all applicants, according to attributes associated with the recruitment pool available in their area. Affirmative Action is only required for employers who have demonstrated evidence of discriminatory hiring practices that are not based upon merit – and is generally only enforced for a limited period of time. More sophisticated employers are often proactive to include fair hiring practices, such as affirmative action, voluntarily.

Job specifications are generally based upon KSAs (knowledge, skills, and abilities) that are applicable to each respective position within an organization. In some situations, they can also involve specific certification or licensing, as appropriate to the position.

Most job specifications cannot validate a college degree as a basis for selection – even though many employers list a degree as a general requirement for certain positions. Nonetheless, a degree can be used as a preference in recruitment and hiring, because a degree provides evidence of discipline, research skills, information evaluation and processing, analytical skills, problem-solving skills, etc.

Similarly, military experience can be used as a preference, because it provides experience demonstrating discipline, reliability, task-assessment, task-completion, working within situations involving group dynamics, team leadership, delegation, time management, decision-making, communication skills, etc.

I didn't say that the applicants who get in through Affirmative Action or serving in the military are less qualified. I was just getting at the point that race or military service helps some applicants get to where they want to be and it isn't a merit based advantaged that they have.

I could say that being a minority in America means that you know how to handle adversity since you're thinking (and I don't think it is unreasonable) that people who serve in the military learn KSAs like those that you mentioned above. It's a leap to assume this as my company has seen with its recent hiree (and probably termination).

I pretty much agree with everything else you said, except I think you're a little off about why you think employers who seek a certain degree. I may be mistaken, but people who apply with a certain degree have specific knowledge that is pertinent to the job. An extreme example is a hospital hiring a PhD to serve as a radiologist. A PhD takes discipline, time management, task-completion and other KSAs.

There are many jobs though that require any type of bachelor's degree.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

Military service and ethnicity do not add to KSAs. It's just a fact.

Ethnicity (unless it is a BFOQ) cannot be validated as a recruitment or selection criteria.

Military service is part of an applicant’s prior occupational experience and may therefore be used as a test to satisfy KSAs, which are validated as selection criteria through the job analysis and resulting job specifications.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

That's an interesting take. I think I'll work that one into my repertoire from time to time!:D

Apparently the point went right by you.

In any event, affirmative action gives a benefit based on a factor over which you have no control. Race, ethnicity or sex. You get admitted to school or hired because of the color of your skin, national origin or gender.

Veteran's preference is predicated on your having done something over which you had a choice. Joining the military and serving your country. Your thinking would also require us to accept the tax benefit to home ownership, charitable contributions and marriage as affirmative action, since people engaging in these activities are given preferential treatment.

Really? Owning a home puts you in line for a job ahead of others more qualified? Charitable contributions put you in line for a job ahead of others more qualified?
Marriage puts you in line for a job ahead of others more qualified?
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

Affirmative Action does not require employers to hire less qualified applicants. Rather, it involves ensuring that employers take steps to offer equal opportunities to all applicants, according to attributes associated with the recruitment pool available in their area. Affirmative Action is only required for employers who have demonstrated evidence of discriminatory hiring practices that are not based upon merit – and is generally only enforced for a limited period of time. More sophisticated employers are often proactive to include fair hiring practices, such as affirmative action, voluntarily.

That's the theory. In practice, it doesn't work that way. I've worked at two jobs where a person with minority status had a position there and wasn't up to par, but the boss was afraid to fire them because of the threat of an affirmative action suit. Big corporations might not care about the legal cost, but a business with only a hundred employees or less could be sunk by them.

And according to the regional state parks director, government agencies and those with government contracts have to abide by affirmative action anyway. They've got a gal ranger who they couldn't fire even if she wasn't a better ranger than any of her immediate supervisors: she qualifies them as having a female, a Native American, a black, and now a lesbian -- all in one, but filling all those slots. If she leaves, the local parks district will have to hire several new people to meet its 'quota'.
She finds it hilarious to be four people at once. :D
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

I don't think you understand that ALL soldiers are supposed to have that to some extent. You can't be a softie when you are getting your body shot up.

The problem was not that he had a lust for blood, it was that he targeted that at innocents rather than enemy combatants.

Not these days. Even the Rangers don't want anyone with a lust for blood. They want someone who will kill when ordered to, but even then only when ethically correct. They don't want those who will hesitate, but they don't want anyone who enjoys it.

I learned this from their web site and a recruiter, while trying to help out a kid here who keeps getting in trouble yet whose dream is to be a Ranger.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

Ethnicity (unless it is a BFOQ) cannot be validated as a recruitment or selection criteria.

Military service is part of an applicant’s prior occupational experience and may therefore be used as a test to satisfy KSAs, which are validated as selection criteria through the job analysis and resulting job specifications.

That's odd as Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell have said that they're beneficiaries of Affirmative Action.

I favor Affirmative Action because it attempts to level the playing field by getting more underrepresented groups opportunities. The best schools in the country, generally in very liberal states, practice Affirmative Actions where they admit many kinds of people with various backgrounds. My colleague doesn't have either a high school diploma or a bachelor's degree, but he has a J.D. from Harvard or Yale. There's a billionaire too who bypassed the standard route for getting a terminal degree.

I know that there are several schools like the University of Michigan (and a school in Texas lately) that have gone to the Supreme Court to decide if race can be considered in admissions. Schools do look at race. The State of Arizona gives preferences to Native Americans for jobs.

Also, I typed into Google the words "ex-Soldier homeless killing" and I got a TON of results. I had to look at page two to get to the murders I was talking about. This Iraq War Vet killed 4 homeless men. This cold blooded killer is also linked to two more homicides. (Charles Manson never killed anyone and people today think he's one of the worst killers in American history.)

Here is a link to another vet that returned home only to kill an innocent transient.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

I've worked at two jobs where a person with minority status had a position there and wasn't up to par, but the boss was afraid to fire them because of the threat of an affirmative action suit.

The EEOC initiates a very limited number of lawsuits, due primarily to the agency’s lack of personnel. It is more likely to attempt mediation, which will result in a “dismissal” in cases where the agency determines that no discrimination occurred. If there is evidence of discrimination (and after attempts at reconciliation have failed), the EEOC may issue a “letter of determination” – or, if the agency does not intend to litigate the case on the complainant’s behalf, a “right to sue” letter. No complainant can initiate his or her own lawsuit under Title VII without a right to sue letter.


… If she leaves, the local parks district will have to hire several new people to meet its 'quota'.

The employer’s compliance status is not violated by deviation from a “perfect quota” brought about through the processes of attrition and hiring. The quota is more of a goal than an absolute. Employers are not expected to create new positions in order to restore the quota after someone is terminated.


That's odd as Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell have said that they're beneficiaries of Affirmative Action.

To what are you referring as odd?
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

Ethnic minorities, who disproportionately poorer than whites, don't choose their race. But a soldier chooses to be a soldier.

Blah, blah, blah.

You're blabbering on like a broken record. Okay, you're very abrasive towards the US military. We get it.

FYI - Many of those soldiers you claim that 'choose' to serve are ethnic minorities and poor whites whose only chance of getting a college education is through being a soldier. Are you so blind you forgot that the military pays for college? The Military gives you many skills such as discipline and a good work ethic that, combined with a college degree, can be transferred well into the workforce.

$50 dollars says you got a Marine fetish and beat off to men in uniform every night. Pathetic.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

To what are you referring as odd?

You posted an exception where race maybe be used as a factor in hiring an employee (and I assume admitting a student). Yet, two, prominent African-Americans claim that they're the products of Affirmative Action.

And the Supreme Court recently took up a case involving a Texan suing a university that supposedly practices Affirmative Action.

President Bush too was a product of Affirmative Action as he was "legacied" into an Ivy League school despite being rejected from a state school, University of Texas' Law School, because of mediocre grades.

I'd imagine Jackoroe will say that Abigail Fisher's lawsuit against the University of Texas at Austin is hogwash since he supports soldiers getting an advantage not based on merit just like the blacks and latinos who pushed poor Abby out of higher education.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

You posted an exception where race maybe be used as a factor in hiring an employee (and I assume admitting a student). Yet, two, prominent African-Americans claim that they're the products of Affirmative Action.

The Bona fide Occupational Qualification exception is intended to allow employers to screen applicants based upon unique characteristics that are required for a specific job. For example, a nightclub that exists for the sole purpose of providing entertainment by male strippers can legally discriminate against women in hiring its performers. I suppose some schools can use a similar form of legitimate discrimination, such as an all-girl boarding school disallowing males, or perhaps a religious school that requires its students to adhere to specific religious principles in order to attend. I don’t see the connection between these concepts and the fact that some people report having benefited from Affirmative Action.
 
Re: What the Hell is Wrong with these LOSER Soldiers?

You posted an exception where race maybe be used as a factor in hiring an employee (and I assume admitting a student). Yet, two, prominent African-Americans claim that they're the products of Affirmative Action.

And the Supreme Court recently took up a case involving a Texan suing a university that supposedly practices Affirmative Action.

President Bush too was a product of Affirmative Action as he was "legacied" into an Ivy League school despite being rejected from a state school, University of Texas' Law School, because of mediocre grades.

I'd imagine Jackoroe will say that Abigail Fisher's lawsuit against the University of Texas at Austin is hogwash since he supports soldiers getting an advantage not based on merit just like the blacks and latinos who pushed poor Abby out of higher education.


We've established that veteran's status is not one of the criteria considered under affirmative action. Yes, I know, how dare I actually read the act and base an argument on it. Facts are stubborn things, aren't they?

Now you are ignorantly claiming that being "legacied" similarly constitutes affirmative action. Being granted admission to an institution of higher learning because your relatives went there well may very well constitute nepotism, it isn't affirmative action.

Being a veteran has the same kind of merit as having a college degree. Nobody who walks into a new job setting fresh out of school, knows the job from day one. They are assumed to posess skill sets from college that will allow them to succeed in the workplace. There are skill sets that being part of the military provides individuals that are useful in everyday life and in the workplace. Dependability, ability to take instruction, team work, leadership. These are all qualities that employers look for.
 
Back
Top