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What to do about North Korea.

eddielee said:
Oh no, by all means we should do everything possible to escalate the situation, and put South Korea and Japan in grave danger.

Kicking the can down the road with wisdom and diplomacy, is a hell of a lot better than making threats that will worsen the situation. We must be prepared should North Korea act foolishly, but we must take the moral high ground and not be the foolish ones. If you think that making sharp threats against North Korea will make them "tremble with fear" you are thinking foolishly.
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No, but it does seem to have shown China that it’s interests are not best served by supporting North Korea’s nuclear ambitions.
 
I read an analysis arguing that Trump's rhetoric (if his brief statements can be called that) on North Korea are putting the U.S. in a no-win situation, either being shown impotent against a dictator's bluster or having to cede the position of sole superpower by needing China and possibly Russia to step in and mediate. It's a fairly strong argument based on the fact that regardless of who the NK leader is, he has no choice but to rattle sabers at the U.S. because that's become a core element of the regime retaining power.

And China needs that regime to stay in power if only to prevent hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing across the border should the regime collapse. The only way out and forward then looks like somehow getting a group of maybe the top few dozen officials in the country organized to take over immediately in case the leader should be killed... and then wipe out not just the current leader but the entire family. Moving to group rule is the only way out of the dictatorship, but it won't happen so long as there's a family member to step forward.

But the consequences of failing to pull such a transfer of power off could be catastrophic. I can't see how it could be managed without cooperation between the U.S. and China, and it's not the sort of operation the U.S. is willing to back these days.
 
Trump’s comments did not create the problem. His predecessors have allowed the matter to fester while NK has developed thebombs and missles. Trump has brought it to the fore front, but he has helped China to see that it must cooperate with Trump to end the problem. I think China will go in and remove the Kim regime with Trump’s promise not to intervene. Recently China has closed the road to NK and ended air flights between the capitals. Whatever happens the democrats will demonize Trump.
 
Benvolio said:
Trump’s comments did not create the problem. His predecessors have allowed the matter to fester while NK has developed thebombs and missles. Trump has brought it to the fore front, but he has helped China to see that it must cooperate with Trump to end the problem. I think China will go in and remove the Kim regime with Trump’s promise not to intervene. Recently China has closed the road to NK and ended air flights between the capitals. Whatever happens the democrats will demonize Trump.
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No, Trump's comments created a new problem: a blustering U.S. with nothing to back the bluster. If after all Trump has said China is the one to take care of the problem, he will have raised them to a level of parity in international affairs.
 
Kulindahr said:
No, Trump's comments created a new problem: a blustering U.S. with nothing to back the bluster. If after all Trump has said China is the one to take care of the problem, he will have raised them to a level of parity in international affairs.
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Nonsense. We have plenty to back us up. We can, and may yet, level NK to the ground. What we cannot do is resolve it peacefully. We have tried over the last 60+ years. But China, upon which NK is dependent can resolve it without a major war, if it is sufficiently motivated. Trump is motivating China to solve it or we will.
 
Benvolio said:
Whatever happens the democrats will demonize Trump.
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They don't have to. They just have to sit back and watch how Trump demonises himself. You really have no idea how evil he looks and acts to most of the rest of the world, do you? If you did, you would understand his comparisons to Hitler.
 
gsdx said:
They don't have to. They just have to sit back and watch how Trump demonises himself. You really have no idea how evil he looks and acts to most of the rest of the world, do you? If you did, you would understand his comparisons to Hitler.
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I don’t think you can speak for the “rest of the world” any more than I can.
 
Benvolio said:
Nonsense. We have plenty to back us up. We can, and may yet, level NK to the ground. What we cannot do is resolve it peacefully. We have tried over the last 60+ years. But China, upon which NK is dependent can resolve it without a major war, if it is sufficiently motivated. Trump is motivating China to solve it or we will.
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If we can't resolve it peacefully, we can't resolve it at all. The North has sufficient artillery and missiles aimed at Seoul that in an outbreak of war there would be two million dead in the first two hours -- not acceptable even for a final total casualties.

The only way we could possibly resolve it militarily would be if we'd done as a presidential advisory council recommended to Nixon and built Thor, an orbital system that would drop high-density guided "spears" from orbit. With today's technology, those spears -- fired downward and accelerated by gravity all the way down -- would be accurate enough to hit a dinner plate on a moving (though not dodging) target. We'd need over a thousand such satellites, though, in order to hit every artillery piece aimed at Seoul and the majority of missiles as well. Even so, the system is the only one on any drawing board that would give the capacity to eliminate all that artillery and missiles swiftly: it would be both highly accurate and highly destructive, as a single "spear" would impact with force equal to 5k+ tons of TNT.
 
gsdx said:
They don't have to. They just have to sit back and watch how Trump demonises himself. You really have no idea how evil he looks and acts to most of the rest of the world, do you? If you did, you would understand his comparisons to Hitler.
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Oh, I understand the comparison. It means nothing. Liberals compared Romneys wife to Stalin!
 
War is not necessarily the best answer, there are a lot of small countries with the ability and actual reality of producing biological weapons. For the most part, they don't use them or use them in a limited fashion on themselves or neighbors. The reason is to use them against the US, Russia or China and their allies would be suicide. Pretty much anyone North Korea would use those weapons against would prompt their destruction.

Isolation and continued diplomacy seem the best approach as the Sung dynasty cannot last forever, the suffering of the North Korean people will eventually overcome the best efforts of the personality cult. Fortunately, their willingness to sell weapons in the past makes them having them a perfect justification for practicing isolationism against them.

The entire reason North Korea wants nuclear weapons is the belief of the regime that having them will prevent an attack by the United States. Sadly given the examples, the US has given in Iraq and Libya, they have a reason to believe that. It does not, however, change the situation as to the results of using those weapons.
 
Stardreamer said:
War is not necessarily the best answer, there are a lot of small countries with the ability and actual reality of producing biological weapons. For the most part, they don't use them or use them in a limited fashion on themselves or neighbors. The reason is to use them against the US, Russia or China and their allies would be suicide. Pretty much anyone North Korea would use those weapons against would prompt their destruction.

Isolation and continued diplomacy seem the best approach as the Sung dynasty cannot last forever, the suffering of the North Korean people will eventually overcome the best efforts of the personality cult. Fortunately, their willingness to sell weapons in the past makes them having them a perfect justification for practicing isolationism against them.

The entire reason North Korea wants nuclear weapons is the belief of the regime that having them will prevent an attack by the United States. Sadly given the examples, the US has given in Iraq and Libya, they have a reason to believe that. It does not, however, change the situation as to the results of using those weapons.
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The other danger is that NK will put germ weapons in the hands of terrorist unconcerned about retaliation. The biological will be easier to bring into the country and cheaper to buy. At the least Trump should be alerting the world to the threat.
 
Benvolio said:
The other danger is that NK will put germ weapons in the hands of terrorist unconcerned about retaliation. The biological will be easier to bring into the country and cheaper to buy. At the least Trump should be alerting the world to the threat.
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A recurring threat that rarely ever seems to happen because quite frankly there is little to gain from doing it and a lot to lose. This was part of the same threat used to justify Iraq. The key point to that statement is 'unconcerned about retaliation'. That is only true if there is no possible way to trace the biological weapons back to their source. Selling rockets and other conventional weapons to other countries and maybe the occasional terrorist group is one thing, selling WMDs is another thing altogether and pose the same risks as using them.
 
^ I'm surprised he hasn't been stopped yet. He is causing riots all around the world. It's his own brand of terrorism, pure and simple. The man is toxic and one of the most dangerous people in the world.
 
If Trump were the captain of a ship, he would have been set adrift months ago.
 
^^If the Donald was the captain of a ship, he would have already run it head long into an ice berg and then blamed the pilot
 
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