What to do about North Korea.

[ballcaphair]

Trump did not cause the No Koreans to develop nuclear weapons or the missles. His talk may have induced Kim to be more vocal and more willing to disclose their progress and plans, but that is a good thing. The problem is not the escalation of rhetoric, but the progress with the missles.

Should their "progress" backfire and one of their missles explode on site, or worse, kill and contaminate ANYone, we will be blamed for a preemlptive strike. The president's bombastic tweets will villanize our nation.

 

[kallipolis]

They could insist that Kim stop threatening or stop developing nuclear missles. But clearly they are not doing so but have substantially increased trade with NoK, in effect subsidizing Kim's plans. Does China care if NK attacks the US or Japan or So Korea? No indication that they care. More likely they are hoping that the US will fail, causing our allies to depend upon China rather than us.

China is the life line for North Korea. Fuel oil for the North Korean armed forces is supplied by China.

China's economic well being rests on trade with the rest of the planet, encouraging me to believe that Kim will not become a danger to the Korean peninsular, or Asia.

China can end Kim's rule when ever it suits them.

 

[kallipolis]

North Korea is to China, as Israel is to the United States. Israel is a democratic nation, which North Korea is not.

Israel sits in a war ravaged neighbourhood, and possesses nuclear weapons for deterrence purposes, knowing that Iran has an ICBM capability.

The White House is well advised to sort out its own self perpetuating internalised struggles, before daring to believe it can resolve perceived co-existence issues with North Korea. Then there's the ongoing civil strife in Venezuela that is probably a much more pressing matter.

 

[Pierresro]

What will happen if Trump decides to declare war on North Korea is that Chine will cash in their bonds they already own American Lock Stock and Barrel. We will not have to worry about NK sending missile's China will at the point they attempt that the Joint Chiefs of Staff will remove Trump from off and there will be a Coup d'etat .

 

[Benvolio]

What will happen if Trump decides to declare war on North Korea is that Chine will cash in their bonds they already own American Lock Stock and Barrel. We will not have to worry about NK sending missile's China will at the point they attempt that the Joint Chiefs of Staff will remove Trump from off and there will be a Coup d'etat .

Remember, if China or anyone else "cashes" in its bonds, all it gets is cash, that is, dollars. Exchanging an interest bearing paper of the US for one which does not bear interest and is more likely just a bookkeeping entry.

 

[ballcaphair]

Remember, if China or anyone else "cashes" in its bonds, all it gets is cash, that is, dollars. Exchanging an interest bearing paper of the US for one which does not bear interest and is more likely just a bookkeeping entry.

A really compicated and provocative bookeeping entry. There are pluses and minuses. Literally.

 

[cocksucker4use]

Okay. NK and US have some things in common. Kim Jong Un and Donald J. Trump. We are looking at two narcissitic personalities with little or no impulse control. Neither tolerates criticism and both are compelled by low self-esteem and natural vindictiveness to over react to (and preferably destroy the source of) any and all perceived slights. Surrounded by sycofants, they are not exposed to the truth and have neither motivation nor capacity for introspection. Now these two leaders are in a pissing contest about who has the bigger.....missile. I am not sure about how these guys view "Diplomacy". Sounds a lot like "pussy", which I am sure they agree is a great thing to grab, but a very bad thing to be perceived as on the World Stage. Deplorables don't get excited by diplomacy. Mssrs. Trump and Kim are surrounded by Generals. There is not a Statesman to be seen.
The cost of a hot war is intolerable on both sides. There would be no winner. South Korea flattened, Japan damaged...maybe a stray missile hits Seattle. On the other hand, Mr. Kim realizes that there is no good outcome for him in a war with the US and, presumably its allies. Hiding out in Brazil is not an option. He personally would very likely not survive, and his country's largest industry, the NK military, would be eviscerated at best. (He doesn't give a fuck about the starving muppets in pajamas who can't vote for him...collateral damage). However, this is his weakness. Dear Leader and all of NK [sic] want nothing at all displeasing or uncomfortable to even cloud his day, least of all evaporating in a nuclear holocaust. That said, it is intuitive that the more the U.S. rattles that cage which is the Hermit Kingdom, the more inclined the beast will be to break out.

 

[bankside]

Remember, if China or anyone else "cashes" in its bonds, all it gets is cash, that is, dollars. Exchanging an interest bearing paper of the US for one which does not bear interest and is more likely just a bookkeeping entry.

Probably worth remembering at this point that just one rich git broke Britain away from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, and arguably set the country on the path to Brexit, using money he didn't even own, so he could make a bit more.

Now imagine what an entire country could do to the US with actual gigantic reserves of real American money. China might pay a price for messing with assets it itself owns, but one can easily imagine strategic circumstances where it would be willing to pay that price.

 

[Benvolio]

Probably worth remembering at this point that just one rich git broke Britain away from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, and arguably set the country on the path to Brexit, using money he didn't even own, so he could make a bit more.

Now imagine what an entire country could do to the US with actual gigantic reserves of real American money. China might pay a price for messing with assets it itself owns, but one can easily imagine strategic circumstances where it would be willing to pay that price.

Yes, it could buy up strategic assets and technologies. It has aquired a near world monopoly in rare metals, for instance.

 

[cityboy-stl]

I am reposting this here because IMO this is exactly where we are at right now. If things continue on this egotistical one-up escalation path, we and world are big trouble. We are in desperate need of some adult supervision and I have no idea where it might come from.

 

[Stardreamer]

I am reposting this here because IMO this is exactly where we are at right now. If things continue on this egotistical one-up escalation path, we and world are big trouble. We are in desperate need of some adult supervision and I have no idea where it might come from.

It is rather interesting that we have members of the President's own party that are stepping up this week to remind him that he can't legally start military action against NK without the permission of congress.

 

[nycguydowntown]

I don't think Dr Evil or Mini Me are going to do anything but eventually restart negotiations ---many experts think it doesn't matter if this blow hard (not Dump but Mini Me) has a nuke---and no one is sure he even has a workable nuke------Lord knows these two crazy egomaniacs have no interest in dying---too busy robbing their countries----this is a pitiful diversion by the orange idiot to gain popularity while the Feds move in on Dump and Company. You know---wagging the dog.We been doing this dance with this little fuck for years---it's the way he stays in power too. I'm not ready to become a drama queen about this ---yet. If Mueller would just hurry up and get rid of this maniac moron we'd all be better off.

 

[Kulindahr]

Yes, it could buy up strategic assets and technologies. It has aquired a near world monopoly in rare metals, for instance.

One more reason NASA should be getting us into the asteroids.

 

[cocksucker4use]

We are in deep shit. The Administration is confused. POTUS sending off incendiary tweets without telling anyone in government before hand. The Sec'y of State tries to pull it in, and then the Sec'y of Defense makes comments on regime change that make it all worse. (Really, Gen. Mattis? Regime change? I know you are familiar with Iraq and how well that worked for us). Further, the propaganda machine in NK has always focused generations of the population on the US as a belligerent imperialist state from which the country must protect itself. In his random, unilateral and personal thoughts and feelings on the subject shared in the public domain this is the guy who wants to prosecute leakers), POTUS makes this a reality. There is an imminent danger. Trump Supporters say, "Be mad at North Korea. That's the problem; not a Real Man like the President who is not afraid to take those assholes on." Since I still am a Liberal Cuck so bitter about losing the election and hate anything POTUS does or says, I guess that's why I am not able to get my priorities straight. Blinded by hurt and revenge about a President who is Making America Great again by tweeting us into WW3. It's really the fault of the country he is tweeting threats about. Yes, NK is building nuclear weapons and no, no one has done much about it to date. But why are we dead set on giving them reasons to use them? Pushing an unpredictable man like KJU into a corner from which he has fewer and fewer alternatives in the antithesis of diplomacy. What happened to the Art of the Deal?

 

[bankside]

One more reason NASA should be getting us into the asteroids.

Yay asteroids for sure, but both Canada and the States have huge reserves of rare metals we don't develop or mine any more. China has cornered the market, which has been fun for us economically, because they've made it attractive for us. Not so smart strategically though.

They got into a pissing match with Japan because Japan declined to give in to China's ridiculous maritime territorial claims. China blocked exports for a while. That should have been the clue for Canada and the US to start pushing our own mining sector ahead. So far I think inky Australia has been smart enough to do so, if memory serves.

Anyway mines of our own are cheaper than asteroids.

 

[Kulindahr]

Trump Supporters say, "Be mad at North Korea. ....."

Stupidity -- we should feel sorry for North Korea.

 

[Kulindahr]

Yay asteroids for sure, but both Canada and the States have huge reserves of rare metals we don't develop or mine any more. China has cornered the market, which has been fun for us economically, because they've made it attractive for us. Not so smart strategically though.

They got into a pissing match with Japan because Japan declined to give in to China's ridiculous maritime territorial claims. China blocked exports for a while. That should have been the clue for Canada and the US to start pushing our own mining sector ahead. So far I think inky Australia has been smart enough to do so, if memory serves.

Anyway mines of our own are cheaper than asteroids.

If an asteroid can be found of a sort that's predicted to be out there, we could have enough rare elements to drop current prices by over half. The real problem with asteroid mining isn't cost, it's time: we don't have any method for getting a substantial asteroid from the main belt into earth orbit in anything less than years.

There are several companies betting on finding the right asteroid out of the near-earth group; while it would take a few tens of billions to grab one and bring it back, the return on investment would be on the order of 1k to 1, assuming a selling price at three-quarters of current prices. So while planet-based mines are cheaper in the short run, in the long run asteroids win.


And we could drop pieces of the waste on North Korea.....

 

[BigChicken]

At this point, the proverbial cat is out of the bag. So many nations have nukes that there is no way to hold that back. M.A.D. worked well to keep the Soviets and China from doing a nuclear strike on us, but I'm not so sure about the nut in NK or the nuts in Iran, or for that matter about the nut in the White House. I think it is a real possibility that the U.S. mainland will someday experience one or more major cities utterly destroyed by nukes. If we thought 9-11 was bad, just wait till that happens, if you don't get vaporized by virtue of living in a big city. Unfortunately, the city I live in is big enough to get nuked, so I might be among the first in the history of the U.S. to get vaporized. The odds are still relatively low of it happening, but for the first time in a long time, it has become something in the back of my mind, that this might end up being how I end up going. I'm not worried enough to actually do anything about it. I live in the downtown area, which is good in this case, because if it does happen, it will be a quick death, rather than a long drawn out death from radiation poisoning.

Even for those who live in rural areas, if we get nuked, they're going to have to deal with a scene out of The Walking Dead, only instead of zombies, it will be herds of living hungry desperate people, who in many ways will be far more dangerous than zombies. They will flood in to the rural towns like locusts and take everything they have. That wouldn't be the kind of world I would want to live in, so I am okay with the idea of being among the first casualties in a nuclear war, in the off chance of it actually happening at all. I'm not going to worry about it or do anything to prepare for it. I'm just going to live my life as if it will never happen, and if it does, oh well, poof, I'll gone in a blink of an eye.

 

[Kulindahr]

^
And everyone in rural areas will suddenly wish the government hadn't told them they couldn't have machine guns.

 

[cityboy-stl]

^
And everyone in rural areas will suddenly wish the government hadn't told them they couldn't have machine guns.

That's the kind of thinking that got us into this situation in the first place.