When the Republicans Sweep in November, What is the Future of Gay Rights?

[rareboy]

Pray that the courts bring the redress needed to the issues.

It is worth more than the will of politicians anyway.

But I'll bet the RNC is just laughing all the way to the polling booth knowing that a lot of the homos are just not going to bother voting this time.

 

[hotatlboi]

I do not define success as a majority of Democratic votes. "Success," to me, is actual passage of legislation into law.

Well until the Republican party stops being a bastion of homophobia, the former will be necessary for the latter.

That's why, if your voting motivation is gay rights, it would be silly to not vote for Democrats because you feel the process has moved to slowly. It has failed for one reason, and that is Republicans.

 

[Kulindahr]

Might as well tilt at windmills.

Can't I shoot at them? I never learned to ride.

Also a number of executive decisions recently have benefitted gays, for example HHS now requires all accredited hospitals to permit visitation for gay couples.

You should post that one in my thread about "Shit, Support",etc..

 

[Kulindahr]

Granted! But ... it is the rule of LAW that the DOJ "defends" the LAW as it Currently stands! Thus, the need for Congressional Revocation!

Therefore ... the "Quag" of the "Mire"!

All the more reason to ... no matter what ...

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

He could have had them file a blank appeal. I'm hoping that's the plan for the next step: appeal because they're supposed to, and just shrug when asked for a defense.

You define success as advocacy, I define it as accomplishment.

I do not care if every Democrat on Earth votes in favor of gay rights or if every Democrat on Earth votes against us. What I care is that gay rights legislation passes into law. A majority of Senators voted to repeal DADT, but DADT was not repealed. You see that as success. I don't.

I'm gonna call bullshit. What you're saying here is that you have no encouragement or thanks for people who have been working hard; all their efforts aren't worth shit to you. So you're defining progress as meeting your expectations, not as anything else.

You'd make a great coach -- no pep talk, just tell the team, "Win or you're not worth shit".

Jockboy is recognizing that politics isn't like a sports field scoreboard, but like the game itself: you cheer on any progress, even if it's just a shot-on-goal with no score. You don't yell, "Losers!' at the guys who set up the goal play and tried, you stand up and yell, "Awesome -- now do it again!"

You remind me of the guys in the house in college, when we'd come back from a water polo game, dead tired and sometimes beat up: all they cared about was whether we won. They weren't interested in the details of the game or even what the score was, just if we won. Almost always, those were guys who sat on their asses back at the house, and made no effort at all to support the team. So when he suggests you're one of those guys, well, you give no reason for me to believe otherwise, since you have no words of approval or appreciation for the team.

 

[laikaNYC]

Well, according to Jasun, the GOP will bring forth the next Holocaust, exterminating Gays and Muslims first and foremost.

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6586856&postcount=8

 

[Kulindahr]

Well, according to Jasun, the GOP will bring forth the next Holocaust, exterminating Gays and Muslims first and foremost.

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6586856&postcount=8

That's not "according to Jasun", it's according to many of the Republicans now running for office. If they have their way, women won't be voting any more, or serving in the military; gays will be barred from employment and housing, and gay sex will be punishable by death; Muslims will be segregated and watched (unless they're seriously anti-gay).

If the GOP got a veto-proof majority in Congress, they'd work like mad to turn this country into a theocracy, along with a plutocracy and oligarchy. Real decision would be made by billionaires, planning would be done by corporations, only Christians by the definition would be eligible for office....

The only recourse for liberty at that point would be to start shooting every "evangelical" preacher in sight, and every "Republican" politician one could track down.

I put that word in quotes because they aren't, any more; they favor not a Republic but a feudal theocracy in the trappings of a Republic.

 

[laikaNYC]

That's not "according to Jasun", it's according to many of the Republicans now running for office. If they have their way, women won't be voting any more, or serving in the military; gays will be barred from employment and housing, and gay sex will be punishable by death; Muslims will be segregated and watched (unless they're seriously anti-gay).

I wonder why none of this occured under Bush's 8 years in office? They had a veto proof majority just a few years ago. Were they just not ready at that time to implement our theocratic transformation? You've always seemed like a level-headed guy, but I can't believe you actually buy all of that bullshit fearmongering. You're sounding even more paranoid than Jasun, and that's not an easy thing to do.

 

[frankfrank]

^ [#42] The public opinion, at the time, was still far from a majority favoring anything like repeal of DADT, same-gendered marriage, even civil unions for same-gendered people, etc. I'm not even sure a majority favored the option of same-gendered couples adopting children.

As this was true when the Republicans controlled everything at the Turn of This Century, the Republicans didn't see any urgency in strengthening discrimination and repression against gays, because there was very little hint that opinions were going to change any time soon.

However, when it reached the radar by 2004, plenty of Constitutional Amendments (some forbidding ANY kind of legal recognition whatsoever of same-gender couple relationships) were tossed onto State ballots, and I think every last one got enacted where tried.

By the time things really began to change in 2006, the Republicans were losing their majorities, and their ability to continue to enact more of this SHIT has, thankfully, been less effective.

So far, the Courts have been our best friend.

 

[Kulindahr]

I wonder why none of this occured under Bush's 8 years in office? They had a veto proof majority just a few years ago. Were they just not ready at that time to implement our theocratic transformation? You've always seemed like a level-headed guy, but I can't believe you actually buy all of that bullshit fearmongering. You're sounding even more paranoid than Jasun, and that's not an easy thing to do.

Show me when the Republicans had 67 seats in the Senate and 290 in the House.


[hint: think about my great-grandfather's time]




Besides that, the Republicans have never had so many ignorant, raving, superstitious, hateful fanatics running before.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ [#42] The public opinion, at the time, was still far from a majority favoring anything like repeal of DADT, same-gendered marriage, even civil unions for same-gendered people, etc. I'm not even sure a majority favored the option of same-gendered couples adopting children.

As this was true when the Republicans controlled everything at the Turn of This Century, the Republicans didn't see any urgency in strengthening discrimination and repression against gays, because there was very little hint that opinions were going to change any time soon.

However, when it reached the radar by 2004, plenty of Constitutional Amendments (some forbidding ANY kind of legal recognition whatsoever of same-gender couple relationships) were tossed onto State ballots, and I think every last one got enacted where tried.

By the time things really began to change in 2006, the Republicans were losing their majorities, and their ability to continue to enact more of this SHIT has, thankfully, been less effective.

So far, the Courts have been our best friend.

Very well reasoned!

The fanatics get more fanatic as what they irrationally fear gets more real.

I wish I could twist a dial and make half their kids gay.....

 

[palemale]

If the Republicans regain the House of Representatives (unlikely they will get the Senate), gay rights will be set back, but only temporarily. Obviously, no pro-gay rights legislation will emerge from the House of Representatives. Any anti-gay legislation they pass will likely not be taken up by the Senate. Even with a slight majority, it seems unlikely that Olympia Snow and Susan Collins would vote for it. Should there be enough timid Democratic Senators (which I don't think there are), Obama will veto any legislation that comes out.

In 2012, Obama will be re-elected and bring Democrats back into the majority in both the House and Senate. This is because the nut job Tea Parties will have pushed the Republicans even further into crazy land, will have probably shut down the government at least once, if not more. As it is, the Republicans have no policies to enact, nothing but Bush era, tax cutting rehash. It's hard to imagine them publicly advocating the tea party beliefs, which will cause further internecine warfare in the Republican camp. There is very little in the Health Care Reform legislation they will try to repeal, which will lead everyone to ask, "if it was so bad, why didn't they try to undo it?"

In 2012, the public will realize how truly full of shit the Republicans are and will vote them out of office. Long term, the Republicans are in trouble. Their blatantly racist campaign ads will solidify Latino support for the Democratic Party. Muslims, most of whom used to be Republicans, will likely desert the Republicans. Lesbians and Gays will support the Dems in increasing numbers (with the exception of the few "Dan Burros" - like [removed by moderator] - in the gay community). Young people will be horrified by the reactionary antics of the Republicans elected this cycle.

The main problem will be that the Republicans will have two years to prevent any meaningful legislation from passing, which means it will be more difficult for our economy to recover from the disaster that was the Bush administration. This, too, will doom the Republicans.

Things will get interesting.

 

[laikaNYC]

^ Again with the Jewish Nazi bullying. Two days in a row with the ad hominem attacks. With the recent string of gay suicides brought on by internet bullying you'd think that people like palemale would tone down their nasty rhetoric.

*Post reported* (my first time doing so)

 

[Centexfarmer]

^ Again with the Jewish Nazi bullying. Two days in a row with the ad hominem attacks. With the recent string of gay suicides brought on by internet bullying you'd think that people like palemale would tone down their nasty rhetoric.

*Post reported* (my first time doing so)

Yes! I'll confirm that.

And considering some of the hateful comments that have been left for you laikaNYC, out of view of the rest of the membership, and accessible only to those who Administrate / Moderate this website and yourself, I was a little surprised to see your post report.

You have every right to report abuse against you.

And up to this point you haven't reported any of it.

The consensus back in Mod Tower is that you have a pretty thick skin.

I say good on you!

However!

I saw no reference toward "Jews" or "Nazis" in palemale's post, so I have no idea what your post in this thread is about.

In case you haven't noticed there appears to be a war going on here in American right now.

Many Gays and Lesbians in this Country are beginning to feel like we're nothing more than "cannon fodder" right now.


And THAT isn't even the worse of our problems.

So let's make a deal!

You continue to report violations of our Code of Conduct, and CE&P Posting Guidelines, and we'll do our best to raise the standard of responses around here.

I've edited the post that you've reported to reflect our CoC, and the CE&P Posting guidelines, and the rest of that post stands on it's own merit.

 

[Kulindahr]

*Post reported* (my first time doing so)

The fun part is when paranoid people start thinking you're reporting them but you aren't.

Another fun part is when you realize you've made a really stupid post and you report yourself.

Many Gays and Lesbians in this Country are beginning to feel like we're nothing more than "cannon fodder" right now.

I thought they wouldn't let us join and and serve as cannon fodder.

 

[Centexfarmer]

I thought they wouldn't let us join and and serve as cannon fodder.

They have to cut the Defense Budget somewhere!

 

[Kulindahr]

They have to cut the Defense Budget somewhere!

You weevil.

maybe I'm just a blue state ignorant, but I see the Tea Party movement as something completely separate from the religious right.

Try explaining that to the Religious Right.

 

[maxpowr9]

The problem I foresee is the tea party/republicans trying to establish some libertarian ideas (specifically economic) through repeals and failing badly. The problem is, those policies only work when there is no special interest groups (including the government) involved.

As for gay rights, I don't see it being slowed down much.

 

[Kulindahr]

The problem I foresee is the tea party/republicans trying to establish some libertarian ideas (specifically economic) through repeals and failing badly. The problem is, those policies only work when there is no special interest groups (including the government) involved.

There is some truth to that.

The annoying thing is that the Founding Fathers tried to hand us a libertarian government, and we screwed it up. They should have written in that no government agency not specifically authorized in the Constitution could last longer than twenty years.

My dad had a comment about congresscritters, that if they couldn't get done what they went for in twenty years, they should just quit and go home. I think it applies to government agencies, too.

 

[frankfrank]

And neither are we talking about success. We were talking about progress remember? You don't have to go running off to look them up in the Thesaurus either. They aren't synonyms.

However, the fact that the House, under Democratic leadership and majority, passed gay rights legislation on more than one occasion measures up to the definition of success and progress.

I'd also dare say that the ongoing Pentagon study (which is due to be completed and released by 01 December), in which it is showing that a majority of members of the Military do NOT find it bothersome or a threat to co-serve with Gays, also points to progress and a stronger likelihood for success.

 

[jackoroe]

According to the NY Times, there are 138 Total Tea Party candidates running for House and Senate seats. 38 are African American, which is quite interesting for a group alleged to be racists. Of this total number about 41 are expected to actually get elected. That's less than 10% of the 535 members of both houses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/us/politics/15teaparty.html

So don't get your panties all in a bunch fearing a Tea Party deluge. If they govern like the Constitution says, there should be no real problem. If that doesn't pan out, it's unlikely the Senate will have 60 of either party that they need to move legislation. Failing that, we come to the weak link in the chain, Obama. He can't be counted on to stand with us. If he does, great. But I wouldn't get you hopes up based on his actions so far. After that, the courts are a crap shoot depending on which circuit you are going to.

Overall, I don't think it's going to make a whole lot of difference.