Op-Ed When we boycot Starbucks, it's the will of Jesus, but when gays boycot CFA, it's bullying!!

[chance1]

Making stuff up again, Chance?

You've really gone for the deep end lately, supporting lies all over the place. How about coming clean and calling Romney a socialist for having said all the same things about business that Obama did?


BTW, bullying means attacking someone without cause. $2mn a year is definitely cause.

thanks for The Walking Dead talking points summary

back to real life

Attempting to deny CFA the right to operate or open stores is "bullying"

Owner POV being against our cause and bigoted not withstanding

They serve gay people - they employ gay people

Boycott away - I will

rahm emanuel is an idiot and his early backing of trying to shut down CFA is outrageous (and illegal)

the point is ........

show our displeasure - don't eat their chicken

that's good

the rest - not so much

hope that helps - but keep the bullshit coming - just remember at 80K posts, you're membership expires so use them wisely

 

[chance1]

I don't even know where to begin!!! I'm not sure if you're just playing devil's advocate (you rascal you) or you really believe this.

(laces up workboots) so let's just dig in, I guess



You gotta be shitting me! Using the term "bullying" (as well as the other term the religious right has co-opted, "intolerance") to describe the long overdue push-back that we (and many of our fellow travelers) have finally grown the balls for is nothing more than an attempt by those same people to create yet another false equivalency. They have long been accused of intolerance and bullying (and rightly so) so they create the equivalency that anyone who speaks out for what is right and is in disagreement with their "political stance" is bullying THEM. Make no mistake, it's nothing more than an attempt to discredit the idea that they were guilty of intolerance and bullying in the first place. PLEASE don't buy into that bullshit.

How, exactly is it "bullying" to determine (as a gay male) not to spend another red cent in a place committed to our enslavement and denying us a place at the table? How is it "bullying" to encourage our friends, family and acquaintances that spending money in such an establishment is funneling money to a group working against us?



What stores are we attempting to close? I'm not being rhetorical but there are existing stores we are attempting to have closed? Where? I would not be on board with attempting to have stores closed because they are anti-gay, but if they were forced to close stores because enough people refused to fund bigotry then that is the "free market" and the first amendment at its best, IMO.



Oh brother, for someone who went into a fit of apoplexy over the "gay republicans" = "Jews for Hitler" imbroglio of recent memory, I can't quite believe you went there, but it will come as a surprise to many that Thomas Menino and Rahm Emmanuel are gay so thanks for the tip.



While I believe both men spoke hastily (and from their hearts) I don't believe there was ever a workable plan in place to subvert the law to prevent the chain from opening anywhere. JB3 made very good points and I would not support a government entity attempting to block someone from spewing hatred, but I have yet to see one instance where a store was actually blocked from opening.



Quite frankly, this surprises me the most from you. I had no idea you thought this way. I, for one, am not about to play nice, grovel and scrape in hopes that they will someday see fit to "gift us" with equal protection under the law and civil rights. That "gift" is not theirs to give and those things rightfully "belong" to us whether they like it or not. This will come as a nasty surprise to most of them, but they have no say.

I leave the swaying of hearts and minds to all the quirky, fun, safe gay characters on TV shows.

please don't misrepresent me ......... i don't appreciate or expect from you

btw - kyler/luke was oh so lame - could they kiss once ????

Grandstanding you have no right to be in our city because the Owner doesn't support gay marriage is .................. RIDICULOUS

Rahm Emanuel should know better - but he didn't

Menino claims or backtracked on intent

it's sorta similar to Pres. Obama's support for same sex marriage - it's how he feels - it's not law

I actually think it's the same thing

except Pres. Obama never suggested his POV had any teeth - only that HE supported our cause - which is awesome

I think it's awesome that Menino (can't get Boston athletes names right) and Emanuel support our rights - awesome

Beyond that, stop making a spectacle

Independent minds - the ones we want to change - watch/read/listen to the goings on - boycotting is awesome - looking to have the stores closed is not - it's a non starter and a misdirect

instead of the narrative being - "look how fucked up CFA's owner is"

it's muddled with gay activists trying to close businesses

hope that clears it up

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

please don't misrepresent me ......... i don't appreciate or expect from you

My apologies. I honestly didn't think I was and I certainly didn't intend to. I thought I was seeking to understand your position.

We are in complete agreement that actually closing or attempting to block stores from opening is wrong.

Independent minds - the ones we want to change - watch/read/listen to the goings on - boycotting is awesome - looking to have the stores closed is not - it's a non starter and a misdirect

WHAT stores have been threatened with closure? This I'm not getting!

instead of the narrative being - "look how fucked up CFA's owner is"

it's muddled with gay activists trying to close businesses

Listen, if there are specific stores that gay activists are attempting to close I'll be on board with you but I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN!!!

hope that clears it up

I wish I could say it has!

 

[Kulindahr]

Attempting to deny CFA the right to operate or open stores is "bullying"

Utilizing one's right of free speech to state the way things ought to be is not "bullying".

What should have been done, though, was just to call on all citizens to stop going there for a week.

 

[Kulindahr]

Beyond that, stop making a spectacle

Grab a time machine, and go back and tell the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King that.

Independent minds - the ones we want to change - watch/read/listen to the goings on - boycotting is awesome - looking to have the stores closed is not - it's a non starter and a misdirect

So you really don't like the free market, huh.

 

[chance1]

My apologies. I honestly didn't think I was and I certainly didn't intend to. I thought I was seeking to understand your position.

We are in complete agreement that actually closing or attempting to block stores from opening is wrong.



WHAT stores have been threatened with closure? This I'm not getting!



Listen, if there are specific stores that gay activists are attempting to close I'll be on board with you but I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN!!!



I wish I could say it has!

i think we're getting closer

kiss me ...... nevermind

I think Menino/Emanuel/Quinn - their speaking out was either intended and pulled back or not represented well

and many here - JUBBERs - are jumping on it - see Kuli who still is doing it despite the fact that it's been established as a violation of 1st amendment rights ...........

CNN had a panel talking about the legality of closing and/or not allowing CFA to open stores

THIS IS A DISTRACTION FROM THE REAL ISSUE - which is opposition of gay marriage is based on ignorance - and that gay people take their rights SERIOUSLY and will back up their rights with their actions - boycott of stores, protesting, etc.

that's it

MANY here are on board with violating 1st amendment IF the stores are "anti gay" in their beliefs vs. THEIR ACTIONS

I think we're closer if not done here - but let me know

- - - Updated - - -

Grab a time machine, and go back and tell the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King that.



So you really don't like the free market, huh.

IGNORE OFFICIALLY IN EFFECT - your voluminous bullshit is too much to take

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

CNN had a panel talking about the legality of closing and/or not allowing CFA to open stores

I have looked. Unless I am looking in the wrong place I am seriously going to lose my shit if you keep referencing an attempt to have specific stores closed down without telling me what you're talking about.

I think we're closer if not done here - but let me know

All except for that little bit that I'm just missing.

 

[chance1]

^ maybe this will help but it's not the CNN 2 legal talking heads I was referencing - will keep looking rather than "hungkee-ing" you

How the Chick-fil-A same-sex marriage controversy has evolved – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

 

[chance1]

what do you think of this guy ?

Chick-fil-A did nothing wrong - CNN iReport

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

what do you think of this guy ?

Beyond the fact that he gets just about every point WRONG? LOL

I'm sorry, spin it any way you want but you can't be pro-gay and against gay marriage (which is an equal rights issue and nothing more) at the same time. If you are advocating and standing against the ability of same-sex couples to engage in and reap the benefits of civil marriage it's because, down deep, you don't think gays deserve the same rights as straight people.

It's not surprising that he doesn't get this because, with a completely straight face, he then goes on to assert that not ALL people who are against inter-racial marriage are racists! Psst dude....yeah they ARE!!

He's also conveniently omitting the real issue, that the company funds vehemently anti-gay groups and he seems to think that, since they've always been "up front" about being a Christian company that they should somehow get a pass and we should all go eat there.

He's not nearly as smart as he thinks he is. In fact, his positions are pretty ill informed and bordering on downright ignorant.

Other than that I really don't have an opinion.

 

[Kulindahr]

and many here - JUBBERs - are jumping on it - see Kuli who still is doing it despite the fact that it's been established as a violation of 1st amendment rights ...........

MANY here are on board with violating 1st amendment IF the stores are "anti gay" in their beliefs vs. THEIR ACTIONS

You want to claim that someone's exercise of their first amendment rights is a violation of someone else's... go join the religious right; they're good at that.

Boycotting a business isn't a violation of first amendment rights, nor is calling for those businesses to be shut down. I could call for them to be bulldozed, and it wouldn't violate anyone's first amendment rights.

It astounds me how often you defend those who oppose gay rights with specious claims that sound like you're drawing on Tony Perkins for your content.

IGNORE OFFICIALLY IN EFFECT - your voluminous bullshit is too much to take

LOL You and giancarlo, all emotional when you can't have your way. Never fear; I'll still call you on your irrationality and lies.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ maybe this will help but it's not the CNN 2 legal talking heads I was referencing - will keep looking rather than "hungkee-ing" you

How the Chick-fil-A same-sex marriage controversy has evolved – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

The only one in there who's over the line is James Kenney of Philadelphia. Since this is the first time he's come up here, then prior to this no politician was on record as opposing anyone's first amendment rights.

So till now you've just been spouting the Huckabee line: your free speech violates our religious rights!

 

[Kulindahr]

what do you think of this guy ?

Chick-fil-A did nothing wrong - CNN iReport

Besides the fact that he wants us to be nice to people who oppose human rights?

 

[chance1]

I think he was saying anti gay marriage does not equal homophobia

and i don't necessarily thing your point about "gays not deserving the same rights as str8 people" - I think that's the goal - to make people think that way - that it's just being treated equally

but because of religious this/that, they reject it - w/o really thinking of the implication

yet they don't harbor any ill will or dislike ........

am i making sense

I'm not defending their ignorance just trying to understand it better

 

[Kulindahr]

Beyond the fact that he gets just about every point WRONG? LOL

I'm sorry, spin it any way you want but you can't be pro-gay and against gay marriage (which is an equal rights issue and nothing more) at the same time. If you are advocating and standing against the ability of same-sex couples to engage in and reap the benefits of civil marriage it's because, down deep, you don't think gays deserve the same rights as straight people.

It's not surprising that he doesn't get this because, with a completely straight face, he then goes on to assert that not ALL people who are against inter-racial marriage are racists! Psst dude....yeah they ARE!!

He's also conveniently omitting the real issue, that the company funds vehemently anti-gay groups and he seems to think that, since they've always been "up front" about being a Christian company that they should somehow get a pass and we should all go eat there.

He's not nearly as smart as he thinks he is. In fact, his positions are pretty ill informed and bordering on downright ignorant.

Other than that I really don't have an opinion.

There's a big difference between not approving of gay marriage and fighting against the human right to have their associations treated by the government as equal to others.

But you missed a point, Andy: what Chik-fil-A head honcho Cathy is promoting are NOT Christian values. They're Old Testament values, a theme of righteousness by force. And the New Testament says that not only doesn't that work, it never did and never will.

 

[Kulindahr]

An afterthought, about the protesters:

They need some signs with more punch, like:

I and my two wives support traditional marriage: polygamy.

Give concubines legal standing: it's traditional.

Help me buy a bride from a foreign country -- willing to work seven years. (It's traditional.)


Each one should have the appropriate Bible verse attached, of course.

 

[Kulindahr]

I think he was saying anti gay marriage does not equal homophobia

and i don't necessarily thing your point about "gays not deserving the same rights as str8 people" - I think that's the goal - to make people think that way - that it's just being treated equally

but because of religious this/that, they reject it - w/o really thinking of the implication

yet they don't harbor any ill will or dislike ........

am i making sense

I'm not defending their ignorance just trying to understand it better

Cognitive dissonance is not an excuse for bigotry. It is definitely not an excuse for campaigning against human rights.

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

I think he was saying anti gay marriage does not equal homophobia

Yes, that IS what he's saying. I'm saying I reject that notion outright. I also reject the notion that anti interracial marriage does not equal racism.

yet they don't harbor any ill will or dislike ........

Yeah well, with friends like these.....
I don't know about you, but I'll take my bigots in the cold, hard light of day thanks so I know who they are and how to react. I have no use for the people who THINK they are on our side so long as we don't get too "uppity" and start demanding the things they don't think we should have the same rights to.

am i making sense

Yes, of course you are, with the possible exception of this sentence

and i don't necessarily thing your point about "gays not deserving the same rights as str8 people" - I think that's the goal - to make people think that way - that it's just being treated equally

which, I must admit, I can't quite make heads nor tails of (but that may be me)

But you missed a point, Andy: what Chik-fil-A head honcho Cathy is promoting are NOT Christian values. They're Old Testament values, a theme of righteousness by force. And the New Testament says that not only doesn't that work, it never did and never will.

As always Kuli, you are far better at the biblical "fine print" than I could ever be, so I leave the "sorting out" to you

 

[Kulindahr]

As always Kuli, you are far better at the biblical "fine print" than I could ever be, so I leave the "sorting out" to you

I have this crazy notion that people ought to adhere to their professed values. It's one of the reasons I studied Greek for so many years -- to be able to check on preachers claiming what the New Testament says when it sounded fishy.

I'm firmly convinced that if Christians all practiced what the New Testament says and asked forgiveness from their neighbors whenever they slipped, the entire world would see what the Gospel is really about, and a billion people would become Christian in short order. But so, so many have to tangle the Gospel with their personal agendas, it's no wonder so many say, "No, thanks!"

 

[maxpowr9]

I think he was saying anti gay marriage does not equal homophobia

and i don't necessarily thing your point about "gays not deserving the same rights as str8 people" - I think that's the goal - to make people think that way - that it's just being treated equally

but because of religious this/that, they reject it - w/o really thinking of the implication

yet they don't harbor any ill will or dislike ........

am i making sense

I'm not defending their ignorance just trying to understand it better

There is also no logical defense aka a non-religious reason as to why gays cannot get married which is why so many courts around the US overturn. The GOP know this and that is why they are using the "moral majority" to vote on civil rights instead of the courts. Of course when DOMA arrives at the Supreme Court next session, many would be shocked if it doesn't get repealed.