Who could give me some advice about being gay and being religious.

[Melgum]

From a Christian perspective, that's not possible. Humans are made in the image of God, and so all are capable of good actions. Nowhere is it said that there are any good actions reserved for just God's people -- it's just that God's people are reminded that those are what they're supposed to do, and are enabled to do them more often.*




*success not guaranteed

But, sadly, there are bad ones committed in his name, or in the Bible on his explicit instructions. So in whose image are those people created? If they are created in the image of God, and they can do both good and bad actions, then logically so must He. Or am I missing something here?

MM

MM

 

[Kulindahr]

I choose to live and read the bible by what Jesus said according to the 4 evangelists.

That has always been the Christian rule: every last item in the Bible has to be interpreted in light of Jesus, His life, His words.

And that's a restatement of the basic advice, JL: follow Jesus; anything that doesn't fit isn't worth your attention.

 

[Melgum]

God. It's in the Bible.

Please give me a reference...ideally something not opaque and open to wide interpretation.

MM

 

[Melgum]

Not really. The Babel account fits with a theme of ancient religious literature, where the gods or God decide humans are getting ahead of themselves -- what we might call gaining technology we're not morally or socially ready to handle -- so intervention is made to steer mankind away from danger.

One has to wonder if God really thinks we were ready for atomic weapons.....

So, are there any other Biblical stories that were adopted or adapted from other religions?

As for nuclear weapons, it depends whether you believe that all speaking the same language would have created less or more conflict than us all speaking different ones...

MM

 

[Melgum]

That has always been the Christian rule: every last item in the Bible has to be interpreted in light of Jesus, His life, His words.

And that's a restatement of the basic advice, JL: follow Jesus; anything that doesn't fit isn't worth your attention.

So you are all going to go out and campaign against divorce among straight people? That should be an interesting movement to emerge from the Gay community

MM

 

[Kulindahr]

It is always nice to meet someone who has the answer to that hoary old question 'what would Jesus do?' But, for your sake I hope you are right as the punishments for getting it wrong are quite eye-watering.

Slavery? Well, if you continue on with Ephesians 7 onwards it outlines how and why a slave should obey it's Master. There is no condemnation of slavery in the Bible. Of course, you can return to the claim that I should not be reading it literally but as principles buried in stories. I guess that is the only way liberal Christians can deal with it as there is so much in that book that is just plain unpleasant: point to the nice bits, ignore the unpleasant or difficult bits and when challenged as to how they decide which they choose retreat to the previously prepared position of claiming that it is all about love and the actual written words do not matter.

Could you provide me with the reference for the Paul passage? It sounds interesting and if that is the case it undermines every argument used by Fundamentalists...

MM

I'm not a "liberal Christian". I read the Bible the way it says to read it.

It was Paul's treatment of the Old Testament that really showed me that. Galatians is perhaps the best example, where he takes accounts and draws out principles. But Jesus does it, too, when He throws aside a rule by saying, for example "One greater than the Temple is here".

I've had to be dragged to understanding that it isn't about rules -- I liked a lot of those rules! But especially when the Council of Jerusalem tosses out every single law or commandment in the Old Testament and reduces it to four bits of advice, my like of rules got shattered.

God doesn't like rules -- He's just made use of them.

 

[Kulindahr]

Or, the laws we have passed down to us were written by the equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church...Thing is, there were also more than just Jews in Palestine after their return from Babylon as the Persian King's satellites. Part of the Persian Empire, the Achaemenids had no problem with male concubines at the very least, and there is no condemnation anywhere in Persian writings of 'the act'.

I have heard the Leviticus option that this is solely in relation to temple prostitutes. But that needs to be contextualised with all the other quotes that condemn male-male sexual relationships. It is a tough ask to explain all of them away in a similar vein. I think you can excuse his sloppiness as if he had not used that term it could have been very inaccessible.

MM

You mean all six verses?

Watch the Matthew Vines video I posted....

 

[wikke1]

@Jayden. The testaments also state that if a woman is not a virgin when she marries she should be put to death...I don't see Sarah Pallin looking worried by that one, so give yourself a break, eh?

And Jesus also prevented an adultrous woman from being stoned, asking the question "who is without sins..."
Pfff, I keep taking your bate

 

[oakpope]

LOL

Being a Christian is about experiencing life more fully, about freedom and rejoicing in everything God made.

It's also, by Jesus' own example, about ignoring stupid rules that get in the way of being loving and compassionate.

That represents very well what I think, thank you.

For the Jude 17:2 http://jesuslovesgays.blogspot.fr/2011/06/jude-17-2-peter-210-sodom-part-2.html

 

[oakpope]

But, sadly, there are bad ones committed in his name, or in the Bible on his explicit instructions. So in whose image are those people created? If they are created in the image of God, and they can do both good and bad actions, then logically so must He. Or am I missing something here?

Freedom.
No point in having billions of puppets.

 

[Kulindahr]

But, sadly, there are bad ones committed in his name, or in the Bible on his explicit instructions. So in whose image are those people created? If they are created in the image of God, and they can do both good and bad actions, then logically so must He. Or am I missing something here?

MM

MM

Yes -- Genesis 3.

 

[Kulindahr]

Please give me a reference...ideally something not opaque and open to wide interpretation.

MM

Acts 15 -- the Council of Jerusalem.

 

[Kulindahr]

So, are there any other Biblical stories that were adopted or adapted from other religions?

As for nuclear weapons, it depends whether you believe that all speaking the same language would have created less or more conflict than us all speaking different ones...

MM

I don't think Babel was adapted from anywhere else. But there are well-known ones that probably share a common source, e.g. Noah and the Flood.


BTW, I once heard a Jewish libertarian assert that the confusion of languages was done by God to help freedom, because a world with one language made it easier to have a single, tyrannical government. It's an intriguing notion, partly because it fits with an ancient rabbinical view that the real problem with Babel was that a united mankind was liable to its leaders considering themselves gods. Of course, the account itself isn't precise enough about the reason to settle the issue.


note: I haven't done extensive research on that section, but IIRC the Babel account is another bit written in a kind of literature not meant to be literal -- not unlikely, because the ancients didn't really have a kind of literature that fits what today's westerners call literal.

 

[Kulindahr]

So you are all going to go out and campaign against divorce among straight people? That should be an interesting movement to emerge from the Gay community

MM

You mean tell people they shouldn't get divorced? I already say that.

But if you mean try to get laws changed... well, I'm still waiting for anyone at all to show me where Jesus commanded anyone at all to take charge of government and pass laws.

 

[Kulindahr]

And Jesus also prevented an adultrous woman from being stoned, asking the question "who is without sins..."
Pfff, I keep taking your bate

Very few people ever get a huge point of that story: there is no one who is fit to enforce the Law on anyone else... except Jesus, who refrained from doing so.

In other words, all the Christians trying to use government to enforce any kind of religiously-based law are in rebellion against their Savior and Lord.

 

[Kulindahr]

That represents very well what I think, thank you.

For the Jude 17:2 http://jesuslovesgays.blogspot.fr/2011/06/jude-17-2-peter-210-sodom-part-2.html

Excellent commentary on the Jude passage, though equating "alien flesh" with angels is stretching it; in the context, the men of the city wanted to rape foreigners/travelers, and anyone who was a stranger or foreigner in the Old Testament gets called an alien. Thus, the Jude text actually shows that the problem with Sodom and Gomorrah was the violation of the laws of hospitality -- rather than honor the aliens, they wanted to assault their flesh.

 

[eastofeden]

LOL

Being a Christian is about experiencing life more fully, about freedom and rejoicing in everything God made.

It's also, by Jesus' own example, about ignoring stupid rules that get in the way of being loving and compassionate.

.....and that is the same experience being a Pagan.....

 

[medic1]

Wow I didn't mean to start such a large argument, but thank you to the people who are willing to help and have offered their knowledge. I will reply to everyone who said they would like to talk to me soon. I work a lot so I don't have much time to come on here but once I get the chance (most likely in a couple days) I will respond. I will try to do it today but if not expect to hear from me Monday or Tuesday. thank you all again.

^JaydenLuke .
My hope was that others who are more "erudite" than myself when answering your Thread would respond . And they did , and very well . I tend to have an annoying "habit" of just "battering" away at the keyboard . Much to the annoyance of some "members"...

Far wiser members than me have given "amazing" advice , as for the "detractors" , meh , same-old-same-old .
Whatever you decide , i wish you hope and peace.........Adam........

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

Being a non believer in all the crap is cool.

examples like when I help someone it's because I want to do it not because a guy who was born 2000 years ago told me to do.

I don't have to do good deeds to get into heaven(I'm only going to heaven if Shirley Jones( and only she knows why) is there) I just have to be that guy who will extend his hand out to pick you up when you fall.

 

[medic1]

^ Well , i would call that "a good deed"....................Think i will have to add "Religion" to the catergory off "cut/uncut and "racial " Threads...............