Who should get a tax increase?

[BostonPirate]

Thanks to everyone that voted so far. I believe we need to raise taxes extensively on the last bracket I listed. Giving them the tax breaks has NOT helped the economy nor has it increased jobs. Its time to do it for them.

They are incapable of doing much but pocket the cash and store it in the bank.

I would also go for a smaller raise for the 100k to 500K group.

After that, when unemployment hits the six percent area, the rest need to get the increase.

I think that a baseline tax rate needs to be made on coprporations. They MUST pay X percentage a year, and not allow them to pile up all the deductions.

Hewlett packard is gettting farm subsidy cash and tax breaks for not growing crops on the front lawn of its headquarters. That is an abuse and it ought to have criminal repercussions.

We need to discuss a windfall profit tax as well. Anything above a certain percentage.

mega Corporations are bloated ticks on the american economy right now, sucking the lifeblood out of our future.

 

[BostonPirate]

don't sales taxes disproportionately hurt the poor?

let's say I spend $100/month in groceries... if my income quadrupled, it's not like my food bill would go up to $400/month.

a flat sales tax does.

States do sales taxes and they are not flat. There are exemptions, like food, while bigger ticket items and luxury items are taxed higher.

This covers the idea that if you can afford to buy it in the first place, you should be able to pay the extra tax.

But that raises societal issues that the politiciians are not keeping up with. How much are computers needed in our world today? are they a luxury or a necessity? McCain and Obama would have opposite answers, just to pick two men as an example.

It would wind up being a tedious culture war.

 

[LukiusCurtiss]

Taxing practices need to be re-evaluated; at a certain point you are considered rich no matter where you live, but that's not to say that standards of living are equal in statewide or town/city-wide.

I know this would have me killed but why not tax food; everyone needs it as a necessity. It is in a sense an "equal" tax, but I can see how the gov't may take advantage and all hell will break loose.

 

[palemale]

Poor people pay plenty of taxes, state income tax, sales tax, if they own a house, property tax. There are numerous fees at the state and local level depending on the state one lives in. When the federal government lowers taxes on the rich, and shifts the cost of services onto the states, the states have to raise revenues somehow. It's a fallacy to think that cutting federal taxes for the rich puts more money into the economy. They hold onto it, the states have bigger bills, and they tax the less well-off. It just shifts the tax burden from rich to poor.

 

[moistmaker]

A national debt is a form of theft in itself.

Yes, taxation is theft -- but so is the trickle-up economic system we have, whereby unearned wealth accrues to those who have lots already.

Super-rich people having money isn't good at all, these days. They don't invest it, they play financial games that don't generate jobs. They put in into "instruments" that suck money uphill. When they do invest it, they take it out of the country and put it in places where labor is cheap.

Yes, having capital available for loaning helps the economy. But concentrating wealth hurts the economy. Having lots of poor people hurts the economy as well. Letting our infrastructure continue to disintegrate hurts the economy. Having hundreds of billions of interest on the debt flow out of the country hurts the economy.

Many economic truths being referenced by the Republicans have one problem: the Republicans, with the connivance of Democrats all too often, have changed the rules and rigged the game so that actions which once would have been beneficial to the economy now tend to be beneficial only to the uber-wealthy. So while taxation is in essence theft, to end taxation at the moment would be a step toward chaos and tyranny. Indeed, any steps toward tax reductions which do not favor the bottom end of the economic spectrum are steps toward tyranny.




Until the debt is gone, sounds good to me. Just raise the individual exemption to $20k.

Well according to rothbard, it is the state who has allowed individuals to artificially become weathier compared to a freemarket

 

[moistmaker]

Thanks to everyone that voted so far. I believe we need to raise taxes extensively on the last bracket I listed. Giving them the tax breaks has NOT helped the economy nor has it increased jobs. Its time to do it for them.

They are incapable of doing much but pocket the cash and store it in the bank.

I would also go for a smaller raise for the 100k to 500K group.

After that, when unemployment hits the six percent area, the rest need to get the increase.

I think that a baseline tax rate needs to be made on coprporations. They MUST pay X percentage a year, and not allow them to pile up all the deductions.

Hewlett packard is gettting farm subsidy cash and tax breaks for not growing crops on the front lawn of its headquarters. That is an abuse and it ought to have criminal repercussions.

We need to discuss a windfall profit tax as well. Anything above a certain percentage.

mega Corporations are bloated ticks on the american economy right now, sucking the lifeblood out of our future.

try removing minimum wage laws instead for that

 

[BostonPirate]

try removing minimum wage laws instead for that

for what precisely? you think that there will be more jobs if they lower the minimum wage? HA

the wealth divide would increase even more, putting the cash in the hands of the few that are above paying taxes.

It would also cause delflation of prices. People litterally would not be able to afford things unless they are cheaper.

And that means lower quality.

The USSR went down that road and in the end, a cigarette shortage caused the first upswelling that over threw the entire soviet block.

conversely... states that have higher minimum wages than the nationally set wage, such as my home state, have lower unemployment, and a higher quality of life.

But then again.... In Massachusetts we believe in paying taxes. Even when given the question in a referendum, we always go for more taxes and better state services.

 

[thevofl]

don't sales taxes disproportionately hurt the poor?

let's say I spend $100/month in groceries... if my income quadrupled, it's not like my food bill would go up to $400/month.

Have an exemption for food and clothing (clothing under a certain $ figure). Also if your income quadrupled, you are going to spend a lot more on other things. You want that boat, that car, that iPhone, that microwave, that new computer, then you will pay a tax for it. If someone is disadvantaged and they go shopping for a 32 Gb iPhone, I'm sorry, they should pay a tax too.

There are ways of making this work. The problem with the current tax system is that it is extremely confusing, so confusing that the man that oversaw writing the law had trouble understanding it. With this lack of transparency it is so easy to assume what others are doing. It is also easy to hide abuses.

 

[Kulindahr]

Well according to rothbard, it is the state who has allowed individuals to artificially become weathier compared to a freemarket

Murray is basically correct. But the solution is not to take the restraints off the situation that has been artificially created. Liberty cannot survive in a society where most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few. First, the artificially-generated inequality must be corrected.

 

[maxpowr9]

But then again.... In Massachusetts we believe in paying taxes. Even when given the question in a referendum, we always go for more taxes and better state services.

Not really. This past year we repealed the sales tax on alcohol (Prop 1) or did you forget that? IMO, the only reason the sales tax referendum didn't pass (Prop 3) was because the cut was too big. If the prop was to revert to the previous 5% (currently 6.25%) instead of the proposed 3%, it most likely would have passed.

Also, I find it highly unlikely that you have never gone across the boarder to New Hampshire to buy a big-ticket item (like a TV) to avoid paying the sales tax on it. Reckon now with gas prices so high, the cost to drive there and back would wipe out any savings you have from the taxes.

 

[BostonPirate]

Not really. This past year we repealed the sales tax on alcohol (Prop 1) or did you forget that? IMO, the only reason the sales tax referendum didn't pass (Prop 3) was because the cut was too big. If the prop was to revert to the previous 5% (currently 6.25%) instead of the proposed 3%, it most likely would have passed.

Also, I find it highly unlikely that you have never gone across the boarder to New Hampshire to buy a big-ticket item (like a TV) to avoid paying the sales tax on it. Reckon now with gas prices so high, the cost to drive there and back would wipe out any savings you have from the taxes.

I have no need to drive to White trash central to buy a television, thank you very much.

As for whether the cut was too big or not? that makes no sense... the truth is that we have a ballanced budget, we have 98 percent of our citizens enrolled in healthcare, and our unemployment rate is one percentage point lower than the national average.

We have a higher sstate minimum wage as well.

our success seems to make liars out of the GOP and the tea party.

 

[MoltenRock III]

As for whether the cut was too big or not? that makes no sense... the truth is that we have a ballanced budget, we have 98 percent of our citizens enrolled in healthcare, and our unemployment rate is one percentage point lower than the national average.

We have a higher sstate minimum wage as well.

our success seems to make liars out of the GOP and the tea party.

Virtually every blue state has higher taxes, higher minimum wages, higher healthcare coverages, higher taxes, and yet still have higher incomes, better living standards, and healthier populaces. Go figure.

I think it's time the USA moves to a Italian like 2 state tax solution. Let the red states suffer massive defunding by us blue state people, and keep the blue state monies in the blue states. Period.

 

[thevofl]

Virtually every blue state has higher taxes, higher minimum wages, higher healthcare coverages, higher taxes, and yet still have higher incomes, better living standards, and healthier populaces. Go figure.

And a lot of those blue states have higher unemployment and are on the verge of bankruptcy. (I am not saying all blue states here. As BP points out, MA is doing better.)

I think it's time the USA moves to a Italian like 2 state tax solution. Let the red states suffer massive defunding by us blue state people, and keep the blue state monies in the blue states. Period.

And Italy is doing so well right now.

 

[White Eagle]

WHO the fuck voted for taxing poor people that have next to nothing?

Ok, I'll fess up. I was one of them
My partner has run me ragged today and I'm beat.
All I saw was "increast" and I'm all for it!!!
I want to change my vote!!!!
Make it for the richest to get a 95% increase.

 

[jackoroe]

Can't believe people would vote to raise taxes on the poor.

Those who are in the upper 5% deserve major tax increases, along with major corporations like GE.

And the notion the free market didn't create wealth in the hands of a few is a false one. Europe has more state intervention, yet much lower rates of poverty and disparities between the rich and poor. Come on now... the free market only creates these problems. It doesn't solve them. That's where state intervention comes into hand.

I was watching Morning Joe the other day. They had former Senator Bill Bradley on and he was talking about GE. Everyone is going about accusing GE of being tax cheats because they haven't paid taxes. Bradley, to his credit, said that congress knowingly changed the tax laws in 1997 allowing GE to not pay any taxes. 14 years now, three presidents and congress has changed hands twice, yet the tax law is as it was. Bradley just thought it was funny that some in congress pilloried GE for doing what anyone of us do when we file our taxes. Pay what the law requires and nothing more.

And to remain on topic, I voted to cut everyone's taxes. If you don't send it to Washington, they can't piss it away.

 

[MoltenRock III]

And to remain on topic, I voted to cut everyone's taxes. If you don't send it to Washington, they can't piss it away.

Yeah fuck those cops, firefighters, military personnel, construction workers, scientists doctors, et al.... After all YOU don't need anyone. Such a forward thinker you are. You should run for office! AND write a book! You could win I bet!

 

[chance1]

I was watching Morning Joe the other day. They had former Senator Bill Bradley on and he was talking about GE. Everyone is going about accusing GE of being tax cheats because they haven't paid taxes. Bradley, to his credit, said that congress knowingly changed the tax laws in 1997 allowing GE to not pay any taxes. 14 years now, three presidents and congress has changed hands twice, yet the tax law is as it was. Bradley just thought it was funny that some in congress pilloried GE for doing what anyone of us do when we file our taxes. Pay what the law requires and nothing more.

And to remain on topic, I voted to cut everyone's taxes. If you don't send it to Washington, they can't piss it away.

Bill Bradley tells it like it is - hooray for him

I guess I don't have a lotta faith that the govt. knows quite what to do with my tax dollars

that they're not that adept at doling out the dollars

pretty sure they've proven that time and again

 

[Kulindahr]

And the notion the free market didn't create wealth in the hands of a few is a false one. Europe has more state intervention, yet much lower rates of poverty and disparities between the rich and poor. Come on now... the free market only creates these problems. It doesn't solve them. That's where state intervention comes into hand.

A free market didn't concentrate the wealth -- state intervention did. Some of that intervention was in the form of regulatory boards, which frequently ended up filled by industry insiders bouncing in and out of government, rigging things for their companies, working to funnel wealth upward.

 

[Kulindahr]

I've read that. Its an ongoing problem that need to be corrected. It's ridiculous how these companies pay no tax. The same thing applies in California with the casinos (they pay little).

We need to change the law, and hike taxes for the rich because they are stealing from this country and from the people. Other developed countries have progressive tax codes which work the best... this country awards people for stealing.

We have an Alternative Minimum Tax for people; the same should be true of corporations. One of our billionaires suggested 15%; I'd say that's a good figure.

And yes, the rich are stealing. They get enormous amounts of unearned income from a trickle-up economic structure. To balance that, the tax rate for the upper bracket should be at least 15% higher than the next bracket down.

 

[BostonPirate]

I was watching Morning Joe the other day. They had former Senator Bill Bradley on and he was talking about GE. Everyone is going about accusing GE of being tax cheats because they haven't paid taxes. Bradley, to his credit, said that congress knowingly changed the tax laws in 1997 allowing GE to not pay any taxes. 14 years now, three presidents and congress has changed hands twice, yet the tax law is as it was. Bradley just thought it was funny that some in congress pilloried GE for doing what anyone of us do when we file our taxes. Pay what the law requires and nothing more.

And to remain on topic, I voted to cut everyone's taxes. If you don't send it to Washington, they can't piss it away.

if you get rid of all the deductions you can reduce the tax rate accross the board by ten percent.

But if you are talking about the same old shit we've been fed for years about how things will all be better if we just lower taxes, then you have been drinking too much tea party cool aid.

It is ridiculous that a company worth 500K will pay 36 percent of their income in taxes, yet most of the fortune 500 that make billions in profits get tax rebate checks from the IRS for millions.

Individually this plays out in the tax code as well.

The middle class pays more than the wealthy in real dollars, as a percent, than the wealthy. the rich pay 5 to 15 percent in a bad year.

Do YOU jack? Think about that as you're waiting at the light the gov't paid to design install build and run on the roads you drive on in the car the county pays you to drive around in.

Maybe there will be a conscience some where on the side of that road for you.