Who should get a tax increase?

[BostonPirate]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASRDb12D-M0[/ame]

 

[Kulindahr]

^
The problem is that they aren't cheats, they're just doing what the rest of us do: try to pay as little as is legal and get what credits we can.

Congress mostly knows this.

 

[BostonPirate]

^
The problem is that they aren't cheats, they're just doing what the rest of us do: try to pay as little as is legal and get what credits we can.

Congress mostly knows this.

very true. Its time to change the law so they have to pay their fair share or not do business in america. Its that simple.

if you want to milk the cash cow that is the american consumer you are going to have to pay taxes. This had got to stop and if the american individuals who are milliuonaires are going to pay more,... and they are in the 2012 budget..... then the corps are going to have to pay as well. The only way to fix that is to stop corporate welfare programs and stop offshore address shelters.

 

[thevofl]

I love how GE is in the public crosshairs now, as opposed to last year when they owned a majority of MSNBC. I think that is purely a coincidence.

 

[BostonPirate]

I love how GE is in the public crosshairs now, as opposed to last year when they owned a majority of MSNBC. I think that is purely a coincidence.

They still own a big chunk of it

That is irrelevant. THey did what they did. now if there was progressive partizanship involved on this issue, someone would look up old Mr Murdoch.

But no one finds him that interesting, really.

This is just about a corporation that is screwing america out of Billions of Dollars through shelters, and lobbyists, who have turned the tax code into swiss cheese.

 

[Kulindahr]

very true. Its time to change the law so they have to pay their fair share or not do business in america. Its that simple.

if you want to milk the cash cow that is the american consumer you are going to have to pay taxes. This had got to stop and if the american individuals who are milliuonaires are going to pay more,... and they are in the 2012 budget..... then the corps are going to have to pay as well. The only way to fix that is to stop corporate welfare programs and stop offshore address shelters.

Just adopt a CMT -- corporate minimum tax.

 

[thevofl]

This is just about a corporation that is screwing america out of Billions of Dollars through shelters, and lobbyists, who have turned the tax code into swiss cheese.

Why can't we simplify the code? Simple as that. Remove the loopholes, remove the shelters, the incentives, etc. Flat tax across the board for all corporations large and small. Flat tax on everyone, rich and poor (beyond the poverty line).

Then GE couldn't pull the shit they are, the rich can't pull their shenanigans, and everyone feels the pain equally.

 

[BostonPirate]

Why can't we simplify the code? Simple as that. Remove the loopholes, remove the shelters, the incentives, etc. Flat tax across the board for all corporations large and small. Flat tax on everyone, rich and poor (beyond the poverty line).

Then GE couldn't pull the shit they are, the rich can't pull their shenanigans, and everyone feels the pain equally.

reworking the tax code will be part of the 2012 budget apparently.

IF we get rid of the loopholes, we could balance the budget and give tax cuts across the board. I think it needs to be done. Just make a tax percentage, have it taken out of your checks, forget the filings and the returns. You would pay a precise amount, but that would be the end of it. You would know exactly how much you are paying in taxes per year.

I feel that a Flat tax is a foolish idea because it implies that 20 percent of 500 bucks a week will affect an individual's life in the same way that 20 percent of a 500 thousand income per week.

it just doesn't equate.

The poor guy has to give up medicine. The rich guy has to sell one of his sports cars.

 

[BostonPirate]

Just adopt a CMT -- corporate minimum tax.

that would work if the alternative energy initiatives were treated as grants. If you have an idea or a business that is developing alternative and or green fuels, then apply for a grant from a pot of cash. when the R&D money is gone, its gone.

But I have a bit of a hard time with this as well because the worlds largest user of oil is the american military. They have a HUGE R&D budget. Alternative energy is a domestic defense issue, and they need to spend that money less on making better bombs and more on finding better fuel solutions.

 

[Kulindahr]

that would work if the alternative energy initiatives were treated as grants. If you have an idea or a business that is developing alternative and or green fuels, then apply for a grant from a pot of cash. when the R&D money is gone, its gone.

But I have a bit of a hard time with this as well because the worlds largest user of oil is the american military. They have a HUGE R&D budget. Alternative energy is a domestic defense issue, and they need to spend that money less on making better bombs and more on finding better fuel solutions.

Grants of any kind should not be taxed. That's nonsense that began under Reagan -- because he trusted people when they said their "tax reform" would benefit the country (some did; they closed quite a few loopholes). Scholarships shouldn't be taxed, gifts under a certain limit shouldn't be taxed.

Hmm -- take a couple of those unused military bases the Pentagon doesn't want, and turn them into alternative energy "innovation and development" centers.
Actually I think I've said that before.

 

[Kulindahr]

BTW, I have no problem with people who accumulate wealth -- I have a problem with the people who inherit unearned wealth, and those who benefit from getting richer merely by having money.

That's why I would replace the inheritance law with one that requires the uber-wealthy to bust up their fortunes [into pieces max = (min. wage * 500k)]: it would end the deadly concentration of wealth, and hopefully several percent of the people getting one of those chunks would be the creative type who would use it to innovate and build another vast fortune.

People who weren't so creative would spend it on what really boosts the economy: products. Financial "instruments" don't do crap for the economy, they just shuffle money around from one place to another -- and those are where the money the uber-wealthy aren't paying in taxes these days goes; it doesn't create jobs, it doesn't do a thing except for the people who "earn" money that way.

 

[Kulindahr]

Everyone exept poor should have some sort of increase. Have it on a sliding scale so the higher the income the more the increase percentage-wise with the wealthiest at greater than 50%. Also repeal all Bush tax cuts. And raise corporate taxes the most...minimum corporate tax at 60%....

After 10 years of that no more deficit.

BTW, the result of a minimum corporate tax of 60% would be the biggest job loss in American history. Mexico would love us for it; factories would be moving across the border as fast as corporations could pack.

A corporate minimum tax of 15% would be plenty -- and cut out half the deductions. But the maximum corporate tax should be 35%, and that only for the portion of income generated by jobs overseas. Corporate taxes for purely domestic corporations (excluding sales people/offices) should max at 5% -- we want to encourage companies to be here and keep jobs here.




And fund some new space prizes: $100 million for the first to send a probe out that can find a NiFe (nickel-iron) asteroid and mark its orbit so it can be found again. $100 for the first to send a probe that can match that, plus land on and sample the asteroid, along with serving as a beacon for getting to the asteroid again.

No need for a prize for someone bringing such an asteroid back -- a modest one would be worth on the order of ten to twenty $trillion.

Tax that at 50%... and kill the national debt.

 

[BostonPirate]

IRS should become part of the DOJ to ensure compliance.

it operates above the law, actually.

 

[BostonPirate]

^No ...Science funding should actually be INCREASED through increased taxes...use the moneyalso from defense (we don't need most of that garbage) to go into more pure science projects. Space program should get TOP funding priority.

the SETI project is hugely underfunded and could benefit from increased funding!

how can that specifically improve the economy of the nation at this point?

I am neither arguing for OR against your idea.... I am just interested in your justification for the expense.

 

[Kulindahr]

If you have an income under 20K per year there's no reason you should pay any tax. It's just too onerous for those near poverty level.

Easy: make the individual exemption equal to 150% of the federal poverty level (rounded up to the nearest thousand). This year the federal figure would be $11k, so $11k*1.5 = $16,500. If you add the standard deduction of $5800, that makes the first $22,300 untaxed.

 

[Kulindahr]

^No ...Science funding should actually be INCREASED through increased taxes...use the moneyalso from defense (we don't need most of that garbage) to go into more pure science projects. Space program should get TOP funding priority.

the SETI project is hugely underfunded and could benefit from increased funding!

how can that specifically improve the economy of the nation at this point?

I am neither arguing for OR against your idea.... I am just interested in your justification for the expense.

Basic research in practical sciences always pays off.

SETI is not practical -- I'd drop all government funding for it. If people want to look for other intelligence, let them do it on their own. But hunting metal asteroids and developing the technology to haul them back here is intensely practical -- even if it cost a trillion to bring back a modest one, and a trillion to set up the orbital facilities to process it, the return on investment would be a stockholder's fantasy. If the government funded half that, even a small asteroid could pay off a quarter of the national debt.

Though I'd set up the government's investment in a way that gave every American a dividend check, not just dump it all on the debt.

 

[BostonPirate]

So NASA is a very big R&D project for future american technologies.

Its an investment.

Ok so what will get taxed to pay for it?

 

[BostonPirate]

gotta tell ya

I'm not feeling it, guys.

If we have to cut poor babies off from formula in the WIC program, I am not seeing anything as pressing as that. If we keep the NASA spending at its current levels, we can save the jobs and wait to boost the NASA budget after the NAtions economy recovers more.

 

[BostonPirate]

I am familiar with the salvationists. To stay in their centers you must convert to their religion. Only heterosexual married people are allowed to be ordained.

They cannot receive federal funds because they are a religious movement.

The gov't needs to NOT have a middle man, and help the needy and the poor in direct ways. remember, food stamps are the most economically stimulating program in existence....

In findings echoed by other economists and studies, he said the study shows the fastest way to infuse money into the economy is through expanding the food-stamp program. For every dollar spent on that program $1.73 is generated throughout the economy, he said.

"If someone who is literally living paycheck to paycheck gets an extra dollar, it's very likely that they will spend that dollar immediately on whatever they need - groceries, to pay the telephone bill, to pay the electric bill," he said.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/29/news/economy/stimulus_analysis/index.htm

For every one dollar cut in the food stamp program, there will be two dollars taken out of the economy. That dollar that goes to food cannot go to buying clothing and shoes, which create jobs through retail sales and production.

Many of the programs in effect have been created by capitalist lawmakers minds for very targeted and specific reasons. the ones that stick are the ones that increase job creation while making retail spending rise. That balance serves the worker and the owner in an equitable way. Capitalism flourishes. Companies expand and their value on the stock market expand.

Republicans want you to think this is socialist.

it is NOT.

In a socialist system, the gov't would build factories, and make products for sale and create jobs directly. They would use the sale of the product to directly pay the worker.

 

[Kulindahr]

So NASA is a very big R&D project for future american technologies.

Its an investment.

Ok so what will get taxed to pay for it?

Take ten billion from the Pentagon. Give a billion to NASA.

But by offering prizes, you get private folks doing the work, and don't need to spend much at NASA.

I actually agree with you on the metal asteroid question and that could be handled through NASA of course. SETI really wouldn't be involved unless there were biological questions in the et assays. Unsure about the financials of that - how you could assess project costs and then compared and figure out a ROI or even ROC.

Another thing that needs to be done is to set up high orbit solar collectors. You just can;t do that unless a taxation authority (ie. government( is involved to fund it

High orbit solar collectors are something companies are actually discussing as something that could be profitable. They are also something that would have to be developed for orbital smelting facilities, which would be the way to handle asteroidal metals.

gotta tell ya

I'm not feeling it, guys.

If we have to cut poor babies off from formula in the WIC program, I am not seeing anything as pressing as that. If we keep the NASA spending at its current levels, we can save the jobs and wait to boost the NASA budget after the NAtions economy recovers more.

You wouldn't want to increase NASA funding fast, anyway. But the money is why I said fund prizes -- let someone else do the ingenuity part, not the government. Only get the government involved once an asteroid relocation is feasible -- because dragging a modest one to high earth orbit is something I expect would cost on the order of fifty billion.

But once it's here... the metal from an asteroid would come in at a cost significantly lower than current market prices, which means the profits would be immense, which means that with a big government interest, setting up a corporation where each citizen got one share and collected dividends would do wonders for the poor. And if the price of steel were allowed to drop -- slowly, to avoid economic turmoil -- it could get cheap enough we could replace a lot of uses of plastic with metal.

The benefits would be immense.