Why are JUBbers so prejudiced against the religious/religion in general?

[MoufOfKhaos]

Your belief has no evidence and is as baseless as those who are religious. The lack of evidence for something does not mean it does not exist.

 

[xbuzzerx]

This is a consistent thing, so no, they are not just being nice.

Have they ever said "petulant?"

P.S. Occlam's razor is never proof of anything. It's a method for preferring the most reasonable conclusion in a situation where proof isn't conclusive.

There is no need to disprove claims that are supported by zero evidence. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The burden of proof rests on the party making the positive claim.

Except that someone else's decision to believe or acknowledge (or not) a higher power is not a question of logic in the first place, let alone needing to come to you and prove it to you according to a burden of logical evidence. It's an issue of faith which is a concept you would be exposed to on the first day of any introduction to religion course.

So, again, this discreditation of someone's reasoning for believing only makes any sense to you and everyone who already agrees with you. It actually illustrates a rather determined and stubborn refusal to understand the actual essence of religious belief. Even if you would never actually embrace the concept of faith in any way imaginable over hard evidence, a refusal to even acknowledge its role in a religious person's psyche as opposed to simply returning over and over to a discussion of courtroom logic and scientific theory shows as little perspective as a fanatical religious person who would say that science is the devil's tool to destroy faith and serves no other purpose. I'm more or less echoing what East already said, I believe.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

Have they ever said "petulant?"

P.S. Occlam's razor is never proof of anything. It's a method for preferring the most reasonable conclusion in a situation where proof isn't conclusive.



Except that someone else's decision to believe or acknowledge (or not) a higher power is not a question of logic in the first place, let alone needing to come to you and prove it to you according to a burden of logical evidence. It's an issue of faith which is a concept you would be exposed to on the first day of any introduction to religion course.

So, again, this discreditation of someone's reasoning for believing only makes any sense to you and everyone who already agrees with you. It actually illustrates a rather determined and stubborn refusal to understand the actual essence of religious belief. Even if you would never actually embrace the concept of faith in any way imaginable over hard evidence, a refusal to even acknowledge its role in a religious person's psyche as opposed to simply returning over and over to a discussion of courtroom logic and scientific theory shows as little perspective as a fanatical religious person who would say that science is the devil's tool to destroy faith and serves no other purpose. I'm more or less echoing what East already said, I believe.

I love you guys.

And just to clarify, atheists, religious folk and agnostics, I have no problem with anyone on the basis of their beliefs as long as they don't extend beyond that into treating others in a negative manner.

 

[eastofeden]

I love you guys.

And just to clarify, atheists, religious folk and agnostics, I have no problem with anyone on the basis of their beliefs as long as they don't extend beyond that into treating others in a negative manner.

Co-signed....

I agree

 

[Sausy]

Existence is a mystery science alone can never fully explain.. there is a physical and yet there is an equally wondrous spiritual/ energy plane that the pure atheist will never try to understand, or make room to embrace. I don't claim to know what it is exactly myself, that would be arrogance on my part. Call me weak, foolish or whatnot but in this unfathomably vast universe, which may be only ONE universe in a sea of universes just cannot be physical, there is a sum to things greater than what can be empirically observed. Atheists should be free to find their path to reason, and have that path and philosophy respected. But in the end you cannot really debate faith, it requires a leap of "faith" if you will. You can rightly criticize and expose those who use faith for inhumane ends.. but to just say nothing exists outside the realm of science, case closed... well that's a piss poor attitude to take. It's probably hard wired in most people to have a more expansive openness towards the unknown, and maybe in this existence unknowable.... whatever the dubiousness of much of what is organized religion, there is an innate thirst in us for meaning and connection. Just declaring it all superstition and not worthy of serious introspection doesn't make it so. And I'm glad that viewpoint doesn't speak for most of us, as I'm glad the fundamentalist, orthodox doctrinal churches is becoming less relevant here as well.Though unfortunately on the rise in the developing world, where hateful bigots promote fear, shame and ignorance over love community and hope.

 

[Sausy]

I love you guys.

And just to clarify, atheists, religious folk and agnostics, I have no problem with anyone on the basis of their beliefs as long as they don't extend beyond that into treating others in a negative manner.

I easily and readily sign on this too.

 

[Alnitak]

Have they ever said "petulant?"

Passionate, as it were.

P.S. Occlam's razor is never proof of anything. It's a method for preferring the most reasonable conclusion in a situation where proof isn't conclusive.

Precisely!

 

[Alnitak]

OP is a grown adult on a gay forum starting a thread accusing JUB of prejudice against organizations that have long been prejudiced against us, while clearly ignorning religion's prejudice with questions like "who said homosexuality is wrong." If that's not trolling or flame-baiting, I don't know what is.

Seriously guys, lock the thread.

The OP wanted, and received, a flame war.

- - - Updated - - -

I love you guys.

That's what I thought...

Next!

 

[dpnice]

............................
Seriously guys, lock the thread.

Perhaps it was a "baiting" thread title; I am probably too trusting to ever notice who is a troll and who isn't. But I have followed all the post comments fervently and though have nothing intelligent to say on the subject must admit to having found them enlightening in more than one way.

For me this is the value of JUB; seeing what people think on a subject, how they argue to support their point of view and how they react to others who hold a different one. Okay people get insulted and others offended but that has always been the case here and I would of thought most of us are thick skinned enough to ignore that as soon as we switch off our computer.

 

[eastofeden]

I don't think this is a baiting or trolling thread at all. It is a legitimate and relevant topic. The same topic has been on the other gay boards I belong to as well.

 

[xbuzzerx]

The OP wanted, and received, a flame war.

Please, what thread at JUB on absolutely any topic people have more than apathetic feelings on isn't?

That doesn't make them all troll threads.

 

[Gentleheart]

I don't think this is a baiting or trolling thread at all. It is a legitimate and relevant topic. The same topic has been on the other gay boards I belong to as well.

I can understand someone wanting to know WHY, but to act generally shocked and appalled that a portion of the gay community holds religion in contempt is baffling to me.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I can understand someone wanting to know WHY, but to act generally shocked and appalled that a portion of the gay community holds religion in contempt is baffling to me.

I took the thread title as asking why gay members of JUB blame religious people or the institution of religion en masse (regardless of individual strain or practice or tolerance), rather than that the OP has no idea whatsoever why any stripe of religious belief might be something that's given gay people grief.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

I took the thread title as asking why gay members of JUB blame religious people or the institution of religion en masse (regardless of individual strain or practice or tolerance), rather than that the OP has no idea whatsoever why any stripe of religious belief might be something that's given gay people grief.

This. Including demeaning comments towards some of our logical and fair-minded religious JUBbers

 

[pat grimshaw]

This. Including demeaning comments towards some of our logical and fair-minded religious JUBbers

You mean DejaVudoo?

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

You mean DejaVudoo?

There are more than him. He is just very vocal about this issue this thread presents.

 

[brokegayguy]

And his accusations are correct as shown by this thread. Which confuses me that people act the way they do towards religious people on here when their attitudes and the way the push their own beliefs is no different the way the religious right act.

We're a small group of gay guys just bitching and moaning about religion, mostly because some of us have been verbally and physically abused by religion-driven folks.

Religious people are part of worldwide organizations with massive political and financial power, a lot of which is used in crusades against us because they are hellbent on ridding the world of "sinners."

I am DYING for you to show me how we're no different.

The OP wanted, and received, a flame war.

Which is why this thread needs locking.

Perhaps it was a "baiting" thread title

It's not just the title though, it's also the OP's nasty, condescending, holier-than-thou attitude. I mean, do you even know how disgusting it is to walk in here in the face of people who've been hurt (some very badly) by religion and pretend religion is NOT the problem?

to act generally shocked and appalled that a portion of the gay community holds religion in contempt is baffling to me.

THANK YOU.

 

[xbuzzerx]

^ That some people may have a very sensitive reaction from their history of feeling abused by people whose motivation for that abuse was religious does not conduct some sort of alchemy that transfers your negative experiences of religion into the OP's intent.

JUB never has any shortage of troll threads, this isn't one of them.

 

[Willie Boy]

It's not just the title though, it's also the OP's nasty, condescending, holier-than-thou attitude. I mean, do you even know how disgusting it is to walk in here in the face of people who've been hurt (some very badly) by religion and pretend religion is NOT the problem?

But religion isn't the problem. The problem is the misinterpretation by fools who mean well but just don't understand what they are trying to preach. Or the intentional misguiding by others with malicious intent. In either case it isn't religion at fault but humanity. Humans don't need religion to be cruel to other humans. Many simply use the distortion of religion to get others to accept it. Humans feel weak and small in the big wide world and fear what they do not understand. That fear leads to hate. The hate leads to cruelty towards what is hated. Even if you take the twisted and distorted religion out of the picture the fear and hate and cruelty will remain. What is needed is true understanding, of one's self as well as religion. If one understands what religion truly teaches it can not be distorted and used as a banner to call the unenlightened to battle. If one understands one's self one can prevent the fear from turning into hate.

Instead, the world prefers the easy route of perpetuating hate.

 

[Gentleheart]

I took the thread title as asking why gay members of JUB blame religious people or the institution of religion en masse (regardless of individual strain or practice or tolerance), rather than that the OP has no idea whatsoever why any stripe of religious belief might be something that's given gay people grief.

...be that as it may, it came off not as a question...but an accusation/admonishment. I read between those lines.

It set the tone for some of the responses he received.