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why don't all blacks support gays?

BearDaddy said:
Silly response...

Why don't all blacks support Democrats?

Doesnt imply no blacks support Dem.
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Aight I was wrong I'm man enough to admit that



Still doesnt dispute the fact that there was enough posters including you and me who answered his question
 
I'm tired of being told that I have no right to expect to work together on these things.

I'm tired of being told that I should mind my own business and that it is not my struggle or vice versa. Previously in my life, I've stood up for everyone's equality. Now I'm being told that it is arrogant and clueless to expect the same in return. So sorry. My fault. I'll just shut up and talk about Stonewall the next time I see racism, so good luck to ya I'll just join the faceless white wall looking the other way.

But most of all, I'm tired of the competition among minority groups (and majority liberals) regarding who suffered most, with nothing but ignorance being spouted by people who have never been to Josefov, have never seen an oven at a concentration camp where they would have flung you in just as fast for being a jew, a communist, gay, or a gypsy. Who know nothing of the history of centuries of persecution, medical experimentation, torture, faced by gay people. Such profound ignorance, such profound lack of respect for human dignity to say that these groups suffered to any less degree. The parallels are exact.

I'm done with this thread, but at least I am glad to know where the ignorance lies. That was worth discovering.
 
bankside said:
I'm tired of being told that I have no right to expect to work together on these things.

I'm tired of being told that I should mind my own business and that it is not my struggle or vice versa. Previously in my life, I've stood up for everyone's equality. Now I'm being told that it is arrogant and clueless to expect the same in return. So sorry. My fault. I'll just shut up and talk about Stonewall the next time I see racism, so good luck to ya I'll just join the faceless white wall looking the other way.
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Oh come on, Bankside. There will always be at least one person whose reasoning will piss each of us off. Instead of telling them they're wrong or trying to compete w/ them, it's prudent to acknowledge how they feel and attempt to persuade them to join our efforts anyway.

bankside said:
But most of all, I'm tired of the competition among minority groups (and majority liberals) regarding who suffered most, with nothing but ignorance being spouted by people who have never been to Josefov, have never seen an oven at a concentration camp where they would have flung you in just as fast for being a Jew, a communist, gay, or a gypsy. Who know nothing of the history of centuries of persecution, medical experimentation, torture, faced by gay people. Such profound ignorance, such profound lack of respect for human dignity to say that these groups suffered to any less degree. The parallels are exact.
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This ignorance accusation is annoying. Did it ever occur to you that many of us have read the same things you've read, have heard the same first hand reports of the Holocaust that you have heard, have visited the same concentration camps that you have visited, and have interviewed the same survivors that you've interviewed, and we just don't agree w/ you? After all, pain and suffering are personal judgment values. That's why one set of jurors will award $50,000 to compensate for the plaintiff's injury while another set of jurors will award $5,000.

It's a moot point really. Humans beings deserve equality b/c they are human beings. Obviously greater suffering doesn't equal more rights.

However, it is nec to show that the LGBT people are suffering, after all if a group is not having their rights violated in some way, there's obviously nothing to fight for. I think this is where we struggle. To some, it seems obvious that LGBT are not treated equally, but others aren't hearing that message.

Religion, of any kind, has also been blamed for the treatment of the LGBT community. Although a person's beliefs might factor in, this still fails to acknowledge and account for the religious people who do support the fight for equality and the non-religious people who do not.

We're all made up of several different characteristics influenced by our environment and genetics. I'm 29, I'm white, I'm a Democrat, I'm Catholic, I'm unmarried but have a house w/ my beau, I'm the oldest child in my family, I'm a woman, I'm an atty, and I live in the South. All those things come together to make me and no one trait determines which half of the fence I'll logically side w/.

I feel the same way about some of the reasoning in this thread. Okay, they're African American, and may be more religious, so that's why they do X or vote for X. Well, what about all the other individual characteristics? I think it's a mistake to discount them.

At the end of the day, I still blame misinformation (propaganda, hype, spin), lack of education (not understanding that the choices made have far reaching ramifications), and sheer laziness (failing to dig deeper than the internet blogs or media stories and failing to learn about what rights are being voted on and how it will effect everyone in the long run).

Of course, I'm idealistic and the flaw in my reasoning is that I'm assuming people can be brought up to speed at any age regardless of past prejudices, that they'll care, and that they can weigh the facts and varying options in a logical manner. #-o

bankside said:
I'm done with this thread, but at least I am glad to know where the ignorance lies. That was worth discovering.
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O wise one, come off thine throne and rejoin us mere mortals. Really, you've made some valid points and they're something to reflect on.
 
Look at Jamaica and parts of Africa. It's about hating people who are different than you, and that you don't like. Not about religion.
 
bankside said:
How is an atheist supposed to do that, pray tell?

"The God I think you are imagining would want you to treat me equally?"

No, the minute you need god around to grant anyone's freedom is the minute you become enslaved to the priests.

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
- Denis Diderot
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You take it too literally. When I say speak in "God's language," I mean using the sweeping, yet personal references that put the put the focus on something greater than our narrow self interests.

If we keep screeching "free us" just so we can do what we want to do, we've lost the argument. But if we say "let freedom ring," so that each man and women can fullfill his or her unique destiny and glorify creation, we have a chance.

You can be an atheist and still have a partner in God or something greater than yourself (call it the cosmic connection if you want). I use religious references all the time and I'm agnostic. But the "language of God" rings my bell and everybody else's. Can you imagine Martin Luther King's speeches without the spiritual references? It makes heavy burdens light; it makes a way out of no way; it...see, there I go again. It's a natural thing.
 
why don't all gays support blacks?

Didn't go through the whole thread, sorry if someone already came up with that.
 
bankside said:
How is an atheist supposed to do that, pray tell?
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That's easy. Respect someone with different believes. America would be much further along this progression if people stopped considering themselves and anyone who thinks as they do to be superior.

bankside said:
"The God I think you are imagining would want you to treat me equally?"
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:roll:

Yes, that's going to help. ](*,)

bankside said:
No, the minute you need god around to grant anyone's freedom is the minute you become enslaved to the priests.
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Frankly that's a stupid was of looking at it. It's not God that's needed, what's needed is the same thing you're equally asking for and denying; respect.
 
Paws said:
why don't all gays support blacks?

Didn't go through the whole thread, sorry if someone already came up with that.
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Yes, that point was brought up by me and several other posters.

However, it was dodged and ignored like usual.
 
Not even all GAYS support gays...

In most cases there will always be some in a group who oppose/agree with something the rest don't. It just so happens that the section of black people who don't support gay people is larger than in many other groups of people. :(
 
NameTaken said:
Not even all GAYS support gays...

In most cases there will always be some in a group who oppose/agree with something the rest don't. It just so happens that the section of black people who don't support gay people is larger than in many other groups of people. :(
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True. There are lots of masculine gays who will never be seen associating with a transsexual or feminine gay man.
 
The_Pianist said:
But do they support blacks who don't support gays?
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only if the blacks are choosing not to support gays that don't support women with dyslexia. they're cool with blacks who support gays that don't support women with dyslexia as long as the women with dyslexia are supportive of Arizona natives but on the condition that the Arizona natives support biracial lesbians that have at least one artificial limb.

BUT...

if the biracial lesbians with artificial limbs don't support polygamist marriage then the blacks will not support the gays who support women with dyslexia regardless of whether or not they're supportive of Arizona natives.
 
To me the "it's a cultural thing" argument is just a cop out to explain how many subsets of the African American community are still VERY homophobic due to either blind religious devotion to antiquated ideals or the macho urban posturing I see everyday in the city. I'm not sure what the best way to reach either of these groups is. I don't have any statistics to back this up, but from what I've read about the Black community, gay African Americans are less likely to come out. Which makes it harder for some people to know they even know a gay person. I think part of what brings straights to our side is knowing one of us. So until more gays of color come out and confront their own community, we are stuck with a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
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